powered by Google  
  Track your favorite teams and players.
Free membership, Register Now
Already a member, Log In
 

Florida State says giving up wins unfair penalty in appeal - NCAA Football Sports News
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Home   Fantasy     NFL  |  MLB  |  NBA  |  NHL  |  College FB  |  College BK  |  Golf  |  More CBS College | MaxPreps | Mobile | Shop  
College Football Home | Scoreboard | Standings | Schedules | Stats | Teams | Players | Rankings | Video | SEC Live | Recruiting
  Florida St. Seminoles logo

Register to Customize or Login

Florida St. Seminoles
Location: Tallahassee, Fla. | Founded: 1851 | Enrollment: 39,146 | Colors: Garnet and Gold | Stadium: Doak S. Campbell
Capacity: 82,300 | Coach: Bobby Bowden

Record: (4-5, 2-4 Atlantic Coast)
Team PageTeam ReportScheduleStatsRosterAlumni Trackerseminoles.com
 

Florida State says giving up wins unfair penalty in appeal

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- Florida State says it's unfair to take wins off the individual records of football coach Bobby Bowden and other coaches and athletes who had no role in an academic cheating scandal.

 

In an appeal to the NCAA Wednesday, the university argued that a proposal to strip the school, its coaches and athletes of victories in several sports is too harsh and should be reversed.

If not, the penalty would cost Bowden up to 14 wins. Taking that many victories off his personal record would give Bowden little chance of catching Penn State's Joe Paterno in their race to be major college football's winningest coach. Paterno has 383 wins, just one more than Bowden, who is entering his 34th season at Florida State.

The appeal cites Florida State's cooperation with the NCAA and self-imposed penalties including the loss of athletic scholarships and the suspension of those who cheated on an online music history test.

Florida State's backup argument is that even if wins should be stripped from the school's record, the individual records of innocent coaches and athletes should not be docked. Under that scenario Florida State would still lose its 1997 national championship in track and field and the football team would lose victories but Bowden would not.

The 20-page appeal says it serves no valid purpose to rewrite the won-loss records of a coach or a baseball or softball pitcher who did not cheat because of violations committed by others. It also notes that athletes whose accomplishments are measured by other factors such as touchdowns or rushing yards would not be punished.

"The NCAA should protect -- and not penalize -- those who play by the rules," wrote Florida State's legal team headed by William E. Williams.

The NCAA's Infractions Committee in March added the loss of wins to the penalties Florida State imposed on itself last year. The case next goes to an infractions appeal committee, which is expected to hold a hearing later this year.

The university issued a statement saying there would be no comment on the appeal.

Florida State itself reported the violations to the NCAA, which then found 61 Seminole athletes had cheated on the test in 2006-07 or received improper help from staffers who provided answers or typed papers for them.

The NCAA's Infractions Committee decided that "vacating," or giving up wins -- technically not forfeits because opponents' records would remain unchanged -- was justified because "what happened in that course was simply a symptom of a much larger disease -- a systemic, 'environmental' problem among a large group of student-athletes and three staff members."

The appeal says there's no evidence to support that conclusion.

"This is mere hyperbole," the lawyers wrote. "It is unquestioned that virtually all of the violations at issue are associated with a single, online music course."

If academic fraud have been pandemic, there would have been violations in other courses, but that didn't happen, the university argues.

The appeal traces the cheating to academic adviser Brenda Monk's zeal in helping student-athletes with learning disabilities and her erroneous belief the music test was an "open book exam." As soon as she realized her mistake, she reported it, the appeal says.

Florida State also argues the infractions committee broke precedent by failing to explain what weight it gave to the university's cooperation and self-imposed sanctions, citing prior cases involving Alabama State, Howard, Alabama, Kentucky and Oklahoma.

That failure will discourage other schools from cooperating in the future and undermines the legitimacy of the penalties, the appeal states.

"It also compels reversal," the lawyers wrote. "If the committee in fact weighed those factors, it did so in a black box that denies the university and this committee a meaningful opportunity to review the appropriateness of its logic and its decision."

Finally, Florida State argues it never would have entered an agreement with NCAA staffers for the self-imposed penalties if officials had known the school also would lose wins.

Copyright 2009 by STATS LLC and The Associated Press. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of STATS LLC and The Associated Press is strictly prohibited.
 
 

Talk Back
Reputation:98
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 1, 2008

July 2, 2009 10:28 pm
My obvious Penn State bias aside, but if you are talking overall wins of college football coaches, Bobby Bowden is currently #4 on the list:

  1. John Gagliardi         443 120 11
  2. Eddie Robinson       408 165 15
  3. Joe Paterno            383 127  3
  4. Bobby ...(more)
Reputation:75
Level:Pro
Since:Apr 5, 2007

July 2, 2009 12:00 pm
Bobby (boo hoo I deserve a NC) Bowden received his gift in 1993 despite losing to ND head to head. This is why we need a playoff. Let's get the political campaigning out of college football.

As to FSU's recent appeal to restore 14 wins to Bobby Boo Hoo's resume. Forget about it. The school should lose as many scholarships as players found cheating. FSU has been lax for years. IMHO the
...(more)
Reputation:99
Level:Superstar
Since:Oct 18, 2006

July 1, 2009 8:55 pm
Florida State's backup argument is that even if wins should be stripped from the school's record, the individual records of innocent coaches and athletes should not be docked. Under that scenario Florida State would still lose its 1997 national championship in track and field and the football team would lose victories but Bowden would not. This is a good point.&nb ...(more)
Reputation:94
Level:All-Star
Since:Aug 19, 2006

July 1, 2009 4:51 pm
Sometimes schools have to be slammed with scholarship reductions, wins taken away etc but why not also treat them like the pros that they are.  Supposedly the coaches are the only ones getting paid so when a coaching staff gets hammered, also sit them for x number of games depending on the infraction.  And their pay gets deducted accordingly.  Not only would the head coach that's ma ...(more)
Reputation:94
Level:All-Star
Since:Sep 15, 2008

July 1, 2009 1:50 pm
Yes, he's the most public figure in this all, but he's not the only one affected.  Sure, FSU is trying to help him keep up with JoPa, but JoPa already has 2 more year on his contract than Bobby can have, so its a mute point.  The wins are just as important to the Mens Track team, who would be losing one of their historic 3 straight championships.  Track is a sport where not just 20 ...(more)
Reputation:94
Level:All-Star
Since:Apr 21, 2008

July 1, 2009 3:45 pm
  Because it's not fair to Bobby Bowden?  Maybe if the school had some oversight of its athletics they wouldn't be in this position.  Yes, Bowden and 99% of the team didn't cheat, but there is a reason that it is called a team.  Everyone is accountable for one another, everyone shares the credit, and everyone takes the blame.  Think of the team not as 85 individuals, but a ...(more)
Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Nov 7, 2006

July 2, 2009 10:11 am
Here is the arguement in a nut shell.....BOWDEN WAS NOT PENALIZED, Florida State was penalized. Hypothetically, if that was Southern Miss instead of FSU this would not even be a discussion. If it were Chan Gailey and not Bobby Bowden, it wouldn't be an issue.  We always hear complaints that when a school gets in trouble for something that occurred that the wrong people are punished b/c usuall ...(more)
Reputation:97
Level:Superstar
Since:Mar 24, 2009

July 1, 2009 1:12 pm
The decision by Florida State to appeal NCAA sanctions stripping their football program of 14 wins strikes me as more than a little misguided.It's certainly motivated by the school's desire to try & help Bobby Bowden retire as the football coach with the most wins in NCAA history. However, in doing this they seem to be making the personal interests of one man more of a priority than the reputa ...(more)
Reputation:96
Level:Superstar
Since:Aug 5, 2007

July 1, 2009 4:54 pm
I'm sorry. I was all for fighting to keep the wins, but I'm turning the page.

#1 - TK Wetherell - the President of FSU, blew the whistle, and the lid off of the cheating scandal himself, trying to find dirt to get Dave Hart (Athletic Director in 2008) fired from FSU due to personal conflicts.

#2 - it backfired when inproprieties were discovered at an institutional level, and
...(more)
Reputation:89
Level:All-Star
Since:Jun 4, 2008

July 6, 2009 2:55 am
How can anyone put John Gagliardi in the same class with Joe Paterno and Bobby Bowden?
Hey I just won my 500th game in College Football on the X-Box 360 I guess I rank ahead of
Paterno & Bowden
Reputation:93
Level:All-Star
Since:Jul 18, 2008

July 1, 2009 12:28 pm
The fact that they are appealling the NCAA ruling does not surprise me but to say that the coach and his staff should not have to suffer the consequences of the actions that they had nothing to do with is amazing.  These are all players that he recruted and gave scholarships to so he is responsible for what they did and do.  He knows what types of players they are, great football pl ...(more)
Reputation:95
Level:Superstar
Since:Jun 10, 2008

July 2, 2009 2:24 pm
I know I'm not the first to say it and definitely not the only one to think about it, but stripping Bowden of 14 wins will make Paterno's quest for the record less sweet.  I've never been a big fan of FSU football (mostly because I'm a PSU grad. that wants the record in Happy Valley) but it's frustrating to think about the new excuses FSU and college football fans will use to diminish Paterno ...(more)
Reputation:82
Level:All-Star
Since:Mar 13, 2007

July 2, 2009 12:14 pm
"Under that scenario Florida State would still lose its 1997 national championship in track and field and the football team would lose victories but Bowden would not. "

How does tahat work? A coach would win but a team would not?  IS this new math?

Just goes to prove it's all about Bobby and not the school!!!
...(more)
Reputation:18
Level:Amateur
Since:Sep 23, 2008

July 1, 2009 5:05 pm
hey was he coach during all this. go cry a flood elsewhere.
Reputation:84
Level:All-Star
Since:Jan 29, 2009

July 2, 2009 12:21 am
The Track National Championship that is being threatened was in 2007, not 1997.  That is all.
 
 
 
 
Seminoles Headlines
NCAAF Headlines
 
 
 
 
 
College Fantasy Football