Browns Bears Good Bad Ugly

Browns Bears Good Bad Ugly

Posted on: November 4, 2009 8:42 am

Score: 178

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Good-

When the game causes your leading rusher to announce he is ready to retire...
When a game gets your GM and a top assissant to the head coach fired...
When the games causes the owner of the team to anguish on the field and meet with season ticket holders to prevent a protest...

How much good can really be said for it?

I started to type that it probably signaled the end of Derek Anderson's tenure as starting QB, but I am not quite sure. At home against the Baltimore Ravens is not a good place to come in right now. The fans are planning a protest and will be less than friendly to whoever starts for the Browns whenever they do anything wrong. Brady got pulled at halftime last he faced Baltimore. It could be a long Monday Night. Next week against Detroit seems a little easier.
I will remember DA as a QB who won 7 games at home in one season. Which probably beat all other QB's home wins for a career since the return. He is very likely out of Cleveland at the end of the year, and I wish him luck.

Brady gets his second shot very soon. I abolutely beleive the benching was financially motivated. If he took 70% of the snaps we are married to him to the tune of $11 million over the next two years + $1 million yearly salary. He had a fair shot to earn that money to start the season. He didn't. He got benched for 35% of the snaps. They definitely didn't want to give him 65% of the snaps, and bench him while he was improving because he wasn't worth the money.

Bad-

Reorganization. The firing of Kokinis was a clear message to Mangini. This shows personal decisions are being taken away from him. I think he has one season from today to get it turned around. If he is not near .500 at this time next season he is gone. Several fans are clamoring for an immediate firing. I don't know if that accomplishes anything. It probably sets us back further as the new coach wouldn't want any of the ex Jets we have on the roster now.

The Ugly-

The fan protests. The lack of hope that surrounds the the Browns.

Category: NFL

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Sircheeks Reputation: 97 Level: Superstar Since: Jun 30, 2008	Posted on: November 4, 2009 8:11 pm Score: 126 Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate: Browns Bears Good Bad Ugly I've been hearing many terrible things about Browns management and the front office...not good. Be it Derek Anderson or Brady Quinn, whomever they chose to start will likely use this period as an audition for 2010. Both quarterbacks have performed poorly up to this point, and both desperately need to put some good game film together if they want to do more than hold a clipboard behind a tier quarterback. At this point, it doesn't seem like either guy would want to come back in 2010, so the real possibility exists that we're drafting a QB high this year... I abolutely beleive the benching was financially motivated. If he took 70% of the snaps we are married to him to the tune of $11 million over the next two years + $1 million yearly salary. If Brady Quinn were that much better than Derek Anderson, Mangini would have given him a shot a long time ago. Eric wouldn't keep the team's best quarterback on the bench for the sake of a few bucks. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the Browns are in the business of winning football games, not balancing the books. Reorganization. The firing of Kokinis was a clear message to Mangini. Geno, this is what I've been hearing from people inside the building. Eric Mangini was given TOTAL control of the Browns organization - either directly or indirectly. People don't realize exactly how much power Mangini had. Everyone in the organization answered (and still does) answer to Eric. That's part of where the Erin O'Brien issue came from. This hasn't been confirmed, but I've heard Erin would leverage her connections to Mangini in order to bully those under (or in some cases) over her. George Kokinis represented a resistance, if you will. At some point there was a power struggle between the two factions and Mangini won out. Randy Lerner asked Mangini what needs to be done to turn things around, and guess where Eric wanted to go first... As far as the whole "clear message" thing is concerned, don't kid yourself. Mangini now has surpreme control over the organization, and the Kokinis move did nothing but strengthen that. Several fans are clamoring for an immediate firing. If that happened, all hell would probably break lose in Berea. Geno, the reason I'm backing Eric Mangini isn't just because he's a nice guy (which he really can be at times). It's because he HAS to succeed if we want to see good football within the next five years. Randy Lerner moved all of his chips in on this guy. The flop doesn't look good, but there's still the turn and the river (if that made any sense at all.) Winning cures everything. If Mangini's process works, all will be forgotten. He'll be the next Bill Belichick and the Browns will be the good team we've been hoping for since 1999. [ Reply to Comment ]
WahooJake Reputation: 99 Level: Superstar Since: Sep 1, 2008	Posted on: November 4, 2009 8:38 pm Score: 85 Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate: Browns Bears Good Bad Ugly Several fans are clamoring for an immediate firing. If that happened, all hell would probably break lose in Berea. If that happened, there would be a parade down Euclid and there would be dancing in the streets.... [ Reply to Comment ]
loose balls Reputation: 98 Level: Superstar Since: Nov 13, 2007	Posted on: November 4, 2009 8:55 pm Score: 119 Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate: Browns Bears Good Bad Ugly At this point, it doesn't seem like either guy would want to come back in 2010, so the real possibility exists that we're drafting a QB high this year...I don't believe there is a quarterback that will be in the draft next year that we would select and make that same mistake again. Hopefully, we somehow can land Ryan Mallet, if he comes out, later in the 2nd or 3rd round, but my gosh, I sure hope they do not take a QB with a high first round pick. George Kokinis represented a resistance, if you will. At some point there was a power struggle between the two factions and Mangini won out. Randy Lerner asked Mangini what needs to be done to turn things around, and guess where Eric wanted to go first...Not even close. If this was the case, he would have been gone a long time ago. Remember it was Mangini who handpicked Kokinis. If that were even remotely the case why does Mangini have nothing to say on the matter when he was pressed for information during the day after press conference. Wouldn't he want to levy most of the blame on Kokinis, and away from himself? Also, Lerner asked Mangini what needs to be done to turn things around, AFTER Kokinis was let go. It's because he HAS to succeed if we want to see good football within the next five years. We need to see good football way before 5 years. Mangini needs to see good football way before 5 years as well. The bottom line is Mangini has the rest of this year to at least become somewhat competitive. The 2nd half of the year has at least some opponents that we might be able to hang with. That will determine his fate for next year or at least part of it. [ Reply to Comment ]
Sircheeks Reputation: 97 Level: Superstar Since: Jun 30, 2008	Posted on: November 4, 2009 9:56 pm Score: 130 Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate: Browns Bears Good Bad Ugly Not even close. If this was the case, he would have been gone a long time ago. Remember it was Mangini who handpicked Kokinis. Obviously their feud didn't happen overnight. Mangini picked George Kokinis because he had a prior relationship with him. Mangini must have thought Kokinis would be a pushover, yet smart enough to handle the personnel decisions and scouting. Even Mangini knows he can't do everything himself, so he brought in Kokinis to help. The one found out about the other, the more difficult it became to work together. If that were even remotely the case why does Mangini have nothing to say on the matter when he was pressed for information during the day after press conference. Because he's Eric Mangini. Wouldn't he want to levy most of the blame on Kokinis, and away from himself? Come now, have you ever heard of a head coach actually blaming anyone for failures other than himself? Also, Lerner asked Mangini what needs to be done to turn things around, AFTER Kokinis was let go. The situation had be brewing for quite some time. It only now reached its boiling point and that's when Lerner took action. [ Reply to Comment ]
Sircheeks Reputation: 97 Level: Superstar Since: Jun 30, 2008	Posted on: November 4, 2009 10:22 pm Score: 93 Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate: Browns Bears Good Bad Ugly http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/ entry/10024142/13991109 I wrote that in March when the regime took over. We should have seen this coming. This was Mangini's team from the word "go" and George Kokinis was never as involved as a GM should be. There was rumor he found out about the Braylon Edwards trade through the television. Even if that is an exaggeration, that is VERY disturbing. [ Reply to Comment ]
loose balls Reputation: 98 Level: Superstar Since: Nov 13, 2007	Posted on: November 5, 2009 10:26 am Score: 108 Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate: Browns Bears Good Bad Ugly There was rumor he found out about the Braylon Edwards trade through the television. Even if that is an exaggeration, that is VERY disturbing.That is true. But you know, Lerner needs to shoulder some of the upper management blame as well. When Savage and Crennel were run out of here, he did not do any interviews, he had Brady Quinn and Joe Thomas do it. Lerner is a strange character. His latest interview he did not allow any recording devices to be brought in. He also had an interview with Rizzo or Grossi, not sure which one, and it was all done through email. What the heck is that? [ Reply to Comment ]
geno2131 Reputation: 99 Level: Superstar Since: May 29, 2007	Posted on: November 5, 2009 10:47 am Score: 126 Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate: Browns Bears Good Bad Ugly If Brady Quinn were that much better than Derek Anderson, Mangini would have given him a shot a long time ago. Eric wouldn't keep the team's best quarterback on the bench for the sake of a few bucks. I think you are misinterpreting what i am saying here. If Brady comes out and plays like he deserves that kind of money that absolutely he stays in there and gets the bucks. He did not play like that at all. I beleive the reason he got the quick hook, that Anderson didn't is because of the money and what it means. After his abysmal start Mangini looked at the contract situation. If Brady gets the whole season to audition, as several fans have asked for, we are married to him for 2 years with that contract. Mangini definitely didn't want that. If Mangini let him to continue to start games, then we get to a point later in the season where we have to bench him because of his contract. What if he gets halfway through the season, Anderson comes in and gets injured? Do you put Brady back in? No, that means he must be your QB for the next 2 years. I believe Mangini sat him down to let Anderson get that 35% of the snaps at least. Now if Anderson plays lights out the job is his. That obviously didn't happen. Looking at Anderson't contract he needed to play very well for the Browns to keep him around. The Anderson run Browns are just as bad as the Brady run Browns. I don't see how the Browns could pay Anderson's contract next year. The only way I see him staying in Cleveland is if he takes a huge pay cut to do so. Do you see him doing that? Neither do I. It is possible though. With Brady's contract (minus the bonus) he will almost definitely be here next season. He is slated to make back up money. I believe he will be given opportunities to win the starting job. I don't know what he will do with those opportunities. Eric Mangini was given TOTAL control of the Browns organization - either directly or indirectly. People don't realize exactly how much power Mangini had. I think this moves means some power is about to be taken away from him, as Lerner is preparing to hire someone with experience who will have power over Mangini. This of course is only speculation on my part. Geno, the reason I'm backing Eric Mangini isn't just because he's a nice guy (which he really can be at times). It's because he HAS to succeed if we want to see good football within the next five years. I agree with that. I am not positive he is capable of doing it, but I think he gets another year to show some progress. Randy Lerner moved all of his chips in on this guy. The flop doesn't look good, but there's still the turn and the river (if that made any sense at all.) yes Cheeks. I was playing poker when you were in diapers Winning cures everything. If Mangini's process works, all will be forgotten. He'll be the next Bill Belichick and the Browns will be the good team we've been hoping for since 1999. Absolutely. The reason New England can take "locker room cancers" from other organization and turn them into productive players is because they are winning. Take the Braylon "fight". Lets say instead of losing the game and not recording a catch, Braylon catches one in overtime and takes it to the house. The Browns win the game and then goes out at night. I am sure whoever Braylon punched made some type of remark to him. If Braylon just won, he laughs make a joke back and buys the guy a drink. Since he just lost, he was mad. The studid comment gets under his skin so he gives the guy a black eye. [ Reply to Comment ]
Sircheeks Reputation: 97 Level: Superstar Since: Jun 30, 2008	Posted on: November 5, 2009 12:18 pm Score: 124 Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate: Browns Bears Good Bad Ugly I think you are misinterpreting what i am saying here. If Brady comes out and plays like he deserves that kind of money that absolutely he stays in there and gets the bucks. He did not play like that at all. OK, that I agree with. I was under the impression you believed there was some sort of conspiracy against Quinn where Mangini would not play him 70% regardless of how he performed on the field. Derek Anderson was (and still may be) the best quarterback we have on this roster, and that's saying something. I find it hard to believe Quinn gave the Browns a better chance to win, and Mangini kept him on the bench in fear of having to pay him money. I believe Mangini sat him down to let Anderson get that 35% of the snaps at least. Now if Anderson plays lights out the job is his. That obviously didn't happen. Looking at Anderson't contract he needed to play very well for the Browns to keep him around. The Anderson run Browns are just as bad as the Brady run Browns. Again, I believe it was more a function of team performance. By the second game, it was clear Brady Quinn wasn't going anywhere with this offense. Instead of throwing the entire season away, why not turn to a quarterback that has combined for 31 touchdowns in a similar offensive system? Sure it made sense to bench Quinn for financial reasons, but it made more sense to do it for football reasons, and that's what I believe Mangini's decision was based on. I think this moves means some power is about to be taken away from him, as Lerner is preparing to hire someone with experience who will have power over Mangini. This of course is only speculation on my part. We'll agree to disagree. I will say that if Mangini couldn't bring in someone he could work with, then I have no idea how Randy Lerner, a man who has admitted his own football ignorance, will be able to change that. I have a feeling the new GM would come from inside. Dawn Aponte may be that person. I was playing poker when you were in diapers Is that so, old man ? I'd love to try my hand against you in a cash game :) Take the Braylon "fight". Very interesting take on the fight. My understanding of the situation is Braylon Edwards was drunk and he said some things which may be true, but didn't need to be said. I don't remember his exact words, but they were something along the lines of, "if it wasn't for LeBron, [you] wouldn't have money or get girls." Would he have said that after a Browns' win? Maybe, but I know he'd be a lot happier and may not have felt the need to drink that much alcohol. This is all pure speculation, but it's fun to talk about nonetheless. [ Reply to Comment ]
jimjdank Reputation: 97 Level: Superstar Since: Oct 20, 2007	Posted on: November 7, 2009 10:54 am Score: 98 Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate: Log-in to rate: Browns Bears Good Bad Ugly Cheeks, I actually agree with you, but am convinced Kokinis was banging O'Brien and that is the real reason they were both fired. Lerner really screwed the pooch on this "process" to bring in football people. Let's hope somehow, this accidentally works, cuz you are right, blowing it up again, sets us back further. Know when to hold em, and when to fold em. Maybe a fold is in order, time will tell [ Reply to Comment ]