Blog Entry

Source: League, players trying to arrange meeting

Posted on: October 9, 2011 1:56 pm
Edited on: October 9, 2011 10:29 pm
 
NEW YORK -- Top negotiators for the NBA and its players' association are trying to arrange a last-ditch bargaining session Sunday night before a deadline hits Monday to cancel the first two weeks of the regular season, a person briefed on the developments confirmed to CBSSports.com.

The New York Times first reported efforts to hold the meeting were under way.

Update: The two sides approached the four-hour mark Sunday night on Manhattan's Upper East Side with no word of when the session might end. Representing the league were commissioner David Stern, deputy commissioner Adam Silver, Spurs owner Peter Holt, Timberwolves owner Glen Taylor and deputy general counsel Dan Rube. For the union, it was executive director Billy Hunter, president Derek Fisher, vice president Maurice Evans, general counsel Ron Klempner and outside counsel Jeffrey Kessler.

Hunter did not travel to Miami Saturday night for the All-Star exhibition at Florida International University. His plans for a regional players' meeting in Los Angeles remain in place for Monday, two people with knowledge of his plans said -- but Hunter is not scheduled to fly to L.A. until Monday morning.

On Friday, the players proposed a meeting for Monday before games were canceled. The league agreed to meet, but advised the union that it was not moving off the 50-50 split of revenues it offered in Tuesday's bargaining session. Viewing this as a precondition it could not agree to, the union declined the meeting.

UPDATE: The 50-50 prerequisite was dropped in the scheduling of the Sunday evening meeting, one of the people familiar with the discussions told CBSSports.com.

From the standpoint of negotiating leverage, psychology and feeling the need to follow through on their threats, both sides seem willing to sacrifice the first two weeks of the regular season -- possibly more -- to get a deal. But from the standpoint of math and what's at stake economically by failing to reach an agreement by Monday, it is clear that a deal would be more advantageous to both sides than digging in.

As far as bargaining rhetoric is concerned, the players are holding firm at 53 percent of basketball-related income (BRI), while the owners are holding the line at 50 percent. But in the last movement of Tuesday's negotiation, the league offered a 49-51 range for the players, who countered with a 51-53 range. Both offers occurred during informal side conferences involving Stern, Silver, Spurs owner Peter Holt, Fisher, union lawyer Jeffrey Kessler, and superstars Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett.

The split under the previous collective bargaining agreement that expired July 1 was 57-43 percent in favor of the players.

If you look at it from the midpoint of each side's range in their most recent offers -- 50 percent and 52 percent, respectively -- they are only $80 million apart in the first year of a new CBA. Each side would lose about $200 million by canceling the first two weeks of games.

A rational split of 51.5 percent for the players and 48.5 percent for the owners -- with most of the system issues remaining the same, as the players want -- would address most of the owners' stated annual losses of $300 million and preserve the flexibility the players wanted to maintain from the existing system. By holding out for 1.5 percent of BRI -- the owners at 50 percent and the players at 53 -- each side would be drawing a line in the sand over less than $400 million -- $393 million, to be exact -- over six years. And each side would lose half that amount by canceling the first two weeks of games.

In the simpler, shorter-term horizon of the first year of a new CBA, each side failing to move 1.5 percent to the 51.5-48.5 split would cost it $200 million compared to the $60 million that would be negotiated away by making the concession.



Comments

Since: Jun 25, 2009
Posted on: October 10, 2011 2:55 pm
 

Source: League, players trying to arrange meeting

Does anyone really CARE,you go to every room every sport,posting long winded nonsense comments.
Cbs will never give you a BLOG,you are too angry and also not really that INFORMED.

Hey stalker, get lost.  Think you can follow me around a little more?  Why did you add me to your favourites if you have no interest in what I say moron?  Get lost..... as in scram.... as in drop dead.   That post you just quoted me on was a good one with a lot of good and well thought out points and a lot of math.  Only somebody with a brain could understand it.... you don't have a brain.  

Maybe one of these days CBS will come up with an "ignore" feature so I can hide from morons like you.....  and by the way, I have no idea why you made it a point to tell me on 2 completely different threads that CBS won't give me a blog.   When the hell did I say I even wanted a blog moron?

 



Since: Jun 28, 2011
Posted on: October 10, 2011 1:53 pm
 

To miloelfnic and redwings

I'm not sure if your referring to me in your comment. What I'm saying is that if a deal isn't struck the owners will lose real money. They have expenses that don't stop even if revenue does. That's it, nowhere did I imply or suggest that the owners should sign off on a deal that will not support their organization and allow them to realize a profit. I'm not sure how that was conveyed. There are a lot of issues beyond the b.r.i. split that I feel need to be addressed to make the NBA viable to all it's teams and not just the big market ones. The playing field has to be leveled and the only way that can happen is through a hard cap and revenue sharing. That's just ones mans opinion however.



Since: Sep 11, 2006
Posted on: October 10, 2011 6:27 am
 

Source: League, players trying to arrange meeting

 What a bone head comment. You are the one who is not making any sense. This post is one of the most sensible I have read since this whole thing started. No business is in the business to lose money, what part of that don't you get? The players really need to get the point that they don't DESERVE every free dollar the teams make. The owners are the people taking the risk here and DESERVE to make a real profit. Let the players start their own league and run it, then they will be entitled to everything! Until then they have to accept  the new economic model that is coming because if they don't the NBA WILL FAIL! As it is basketball above the college level is not that interesting to me. If the NBA goes down it won't hurt me at all, nada, get it? When LeBron screwed the Cavs (By not telling them he was leaving in advance) I was done with it. I was already pissed at the way he quit on them in the playoffs. I would not be surprised that he told the players after he won the MVP becase the team looked absolutely devestated! The NBA needs an NFL style package to protect it from players who shut down after getting the big contract. NO PLAY NO PAY, NO MORE GUARANTEED CONTRACTS PLEASE!!!!


brian8ball
Since: Aug 3, 2011
Posted on: October 10, 2011 3:29 am
This comment has been removed.

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Since: Jun 25, 2009
Posted on: October 10, 2011 1:40 am
 

Source: League, players trying to arrange meeting

Owners overhead expenses may go down a bit, but they all have executives and employees to pay, maybe a lease agreement for their arena. Point being, just because they don't pay the players doesn't mean they aren't losing money. The players portion isn't even figured due to the nature of the agreement. That being a split in the basketball related income. The owners operate off their portion of the split. If games are cancelled then the owners will lose every bit of that 200 million outlined in this piece. Checks are still going out.

I know what you're saying but what I'm trying to say is if a business is losing money there is no point in signing a new agreement that virtually guarantees they lose money again starting the first year of the agreement.  Last year for the 2010-2011 season the BRI was around 3.8 billion dollars. The owners received 43 percent of that for a total of 1 billion, 643 million dollars.  They lost 300 million dollars which means assuming expenses haven't increased at all, they need to bring in at least 1 billion 943 million dollars to break even.  Assuming this year's BRI reaches 4 billion dollars for a full season as was expected, the owners need 50 percent of that money or about 2 billion dollars.  This is going to mean they finally profit a little bit, pennies compared to the players but at least they don't lose anything.

What I'm getting at is the owners CAN'T sign an agreement they know is going to cost them. Yes, they have some expenses they'll need to cover while the players are locked out but they'll limit those expenses as much as possible.  Believe me, if normal people like you and I can delay mortgage payments when we lose a job then trust me, owners can delay lease agreement payments.  Very few executives will see a red cent during a lockout, and employees all over the league offices will be laid off until further notice.  

Either way, what player supporters have to understand at some point is players are the only people profiting right now.  Practically every single penny of their cut of the BRI minus union dues and possibly government taxes if they don't handle their own deductions goes into their pockets as personal income when they play basketball.  It's not like that for the owners and never will be.  Their reward can't be to lose money again and again when they sign a new deal, that just doesn't make sense.

If you're choosing to believe the owners didn't lose money that's fine, that's your choice.  But to say they should just sign an agreement guaranteed they'll never profit but they'll keep lease agreements going and be able to pay league employees is ludicrous.  Would you run a business where your employees profit year after year, the public enjoys following your business and everybody around you in the city you work in profits except for you?

Of course not... and neither will the owners.... they are just wasting time tomorrow with more meetings, that's just my opinion though.  I don't see anything happening at all.... 



Since: Jun 3, 2011
Posted on: October 10, 2011 12:49 am
 

Source: League, players trying to arrange meeting

Well, the issues come down to these three, as best i can glean from sources:  all owners want more cost certainty so that they have a better chance to turn a profit;  small market owners  really want a hard cap to have a chance to be competitive, and players want to get as much money guaranteed as possible.  The best resolution for all these issues would be a  52-48 revenue split favoring players,  with guaranteed contract still in effect, but a hard cap that would rise as league revenue rises.   Something for everyone, but also something both sides will find objectionable.  But that is the essence of deal making. Neither side gets everything they want.  This deal will work for the league and will help to keep it solvent. 



Since: Jun 28, 2011
Posted on: October 10, 2011 12:32 am
 

Not sure I agree

"Anything short of 50% and the owners lose nothing". Assuming your math is correct and the break even point is 48.5%, If games are missed then both sides lose. The players lose there 51.5 percent they realize in there pay checks. Which is their portion of the basketball related income. The owners lose the 48.5% in there portion of basketball related income. That's season and day of game ticket sales, t.v contract money, concessions, merchandise and what have you. Owners overhead expenses may go down a bit, but they all have executives and employees to pay, maybe a lease agreement for their arena. Point being, just because they don't pay the players doesn't mean they aren't losing money. The players portion isn't even figured due to the nature of the agreement. That being a split in the basketball related income. The owners operate off their portion of the split. If games are cancelled then the owners will lose every bit of that 200 million outlined in this piece. Checks are still going out.



Since: Jun 25, 2009
Posted on: October 9, 2011 11:17 pm
 

Source: League, players trying to arrange meeting

The writer is not only off on his math but  not very much of what he is saying is logical.  First of all and more important then anything, the NBA as a league LOSES NOTHING if they cancel the first 2 weeks of the season. A business that's losing money SAVES MONEY locking their employees out, the only people losing money staying home are the employees and not the owners.

Even if the BRI increases to the predicted 4 billion dollars this upcoming season for the owners to gross 300 million more then they did last season and at least break even, their cut needs to be at least approx.  1 billion, 934 million dollars.   If the owners accept the union's 47 percent offer, they only gross 1 billion, 880 million dollars and would still lose over 50 million dollars. If the owner's accept the 48.5 percent the writer suggests they take,  they gross 1 billion 940 million dollars, basically breaking even.  But since the owners would prefer to PROFIT for God sakes like anybody else would owning any business, they are asking for 50 percent which would amount to 2 billion dollars.  That's still only a profit of about 65 million dollars to be split between 30 plus owners, but at least it's a profit, it's something.  

Anything short of 50 percent and the owners lose nothing if games are cancelled....at less then a 50 percent cut all they are doing is allowing their employees to profit at their expense.  I've met a lot of business owners in my life and know quite a few personally and i can tell you NONE would get out of bed to run a business that's not profitable.  Considering NBA owners are for the most part a lot richer and more successful then anybody I know, why would they think any differently?



Since: Aug 26, 2011
Posted on: October 9, 2011 10:46 pm
 

Source: League, players trying to arrange meeting

Well take money away from players and give fans a ticket discount and arena workers a pay incrase



Since: Aug 26, 2011
Posted on: October 9, 2011 10:45 pm
 

Source: League, players trying to arrange meeting

Cancel the season


The views expressed in this blog are solely those of the author and do not reflect the views of CBS Sports or CBSSports.com