Blog Entry

Progress on system; 82 games still 'possible'

Posted on: October 27, 2011 5:15 am
Edited on: October 27, 2011 12:49 pm
NEW YORK – After another marathon, 15-hour bargaining session that pushed past 3 a.m. ET Thursday, NBA and union negotiators emerged saying progress had been made -- and pointed to the possibility of not only avoiding the loss of more games, but recapturing those already canceled and having an 82-game season.

It’s beginning to look like time for push to come to shove and for the lockout, well into its fourth month, to have its best chance of coming to an end.

“This has been a very arduous and difficult day, and productive,” commissioner David Stern said after 4 a.m. in a conference room of a Manhattan luxury hotel. “(Thursday) is going to be just as arduous and difficult, if not more so. We hope that it can be as productive.”

The two sides are reconvening at 2 p.m., with National Basketball Players Association executive director Billy Hunter saying an 82-game season remains “possible” if a deal were reached by Sunday or Monday.

“We initially wanted to miss none,” Stern said. “It's sad that we've missed two weeks. We're trying to apply a tourniquet and go forward. That's always been our goal.”

But while the cataclysmic rhetoric that marked last Thursday’s breakdown in talks was gone and the focus was on saving games instead of losing more, officials on both sides cautioned not to draw substantial conclusions. While progress was made on several system issues – “small moves,” according to one source – the talks are back in the tenuous place where they’ve blown apart on several other occasions. Even if the complete menu of system issues can be resolved Thursday, the trouble in the past has come when the system has to be linked with the BRI split – or vice versa.

“I think depending on how much progress we make (Thursday), we’ll be in a better position to be more explanatory and definitive about the specifics of the deal,” Hunter said.

After the talks broke down last Thursday over the BRI split – with the owners offering a 50-50 split and the players seeking 52.5 percent – the two sides re-engaged almost immediately on Friday and continued talking through the weekend, Hunter said. The pressure was beginning to mount for both sides to avoid further cancellations and try to salvage the two weeks of games already canceled into a revamped, compressed schedule.

“If there was any hope of trying to recapture the lost games and be able to complete a full season of 82 games, then there had to be a way to get back and talk,” Hunter said.

The two sides discussed system issues exclusively Wednesday and into Thursday morning, not touching on the BRI split at all. One source warned, “They still haven’t gotten to the meat and potatoes.”

But the general feeling from both sides was that a level of determination to bridge the gap between the system proposals has reached a level of urgency not seen at any times during the two-plus years of negotiations. It is generally presumed that once the more difficult system issues – mainly the level and rates of a new, more punitive luxury tax system – are agreed upon, the economic negotiation would be easier to agree upon.

“A lot of the concessions or trades that you might be inclined to make have to have some connection to your understanding of what your ultimate number is,” Hunter said.

Fisher said there were “key principle items in our system that have to remain there in order for our players to agree to what is already a reduced percentage of BRI.”

The league and union negotiated in the small-group format that has yielded significant progress and less rhetoric in the past. Stern, deputy commissioner Adam Silver, labor relations committee chairman Peter Holt of the Spurs, Board of Governors chairman Glen Taylor of the Timberwolves and Madison Square Garden chairman James Dolan joined deputy general counsel Dan Rube and general counsel Richard Buchanan in representing the league. For the players, it was Hunter, Fisher, vice president Maurice Evans, general counsel Ron Klempner, attorney Yared Alula and economist Kevin Murphy.

League negotiators will convene via telephone with the rest of the owners on the labor relations committee prior to the 2 p.m. resumption in talks, but there will be no new parties in the room. Murphy, who has other obligations, will not be present for the union Thursday.

“There's no question that today was a better day than last Thursday,” Silver said. “I think it's too early, not just in the morning, but still in the negotiations to express confidence that we're at a deal. There's no question, though, that we did make progress on some significant issues.”

In a moment of pre-dawn levity after the second-longest bargaining session of the negotiations, Stern joked about the fact that he was not present last Thursday when the seemingly promising talks fell apart after an apparent “take-it-or-leave-it” ultimatum from Holt over proceeding with system negotiations only if the players accepted a 50-50 BRI split.

“It wasn't me,” Stern said. “I leave these guys alone for a little bit of time and all hell breaks loose.”

Could all hell break loose again? Sure; at this point, anything’s possible. But what was clear as the vacuums purred in the lobby and hotel staff began showing up for a new day’s work was this: The urgency to make a deal finally has arrived.

Since: Jan 3, 2007
Posted on: October 27, 2011 11:54 am

Progress on system; 82 games still 'possible'

I'm a little confused.  Why are the players getting revenue?  Isn't that what salaries are for?

Since: Dec 31, 2006
Posted on: October 27, 2011 11:54 am

Progress on system; 82 games still 'possible'

I dont follow the NBA at all, but I couldn't resist a comment when I saw this headline. Anyone who thinks that playing a full 82 game schedule after this lockout delay and doesn't think its a sham to treat the fans so poorly, really has their head in the wrong spot. If the NBA cared about their fan base, they would have a pre-season to get the players in shape and working together and concentrate on a 50 game or so schedule in order to not bunch up games and continue to offer their fans the nest poosible entertainment value.

Since: Sep 19, 2006
Posted on: October 27, 2011 11:53 am

Progress on system; 82 games still 'possible'

NBA....are you kidding me? We get 75% effort until the playoffs anyway. It's a glorified WWE for basketball...all entertainment. College hoops is where it's at with players giving 100% all the time or they know they will find their butts on the bench. I am amazed that so many people act like sheep to go and watch this farse of competition....and pay beaucoups to do so. Time to wake up folks. I hope they never play again....our culture would be better for it. Doing away with a sports that promotes minimal effort for excessive pay would be a boost for character in the millions of influential young boys & girls who idolize this excuse for competition. 

Since: Aug 20, 2006
Posted on: October 27, 2011 11:49 am

Progress on system; 82 games still 'possible'

I totally agree BRock, it never stops amazing me at the people who post how they hate the NBA and don't want it back but they take the time out of their lives to comment.  Obviously the NBA has some popularity or the players and owners wouldn't be fighting over so much money.  I also agree with another post that said college basketball is great, and I like it better too, but to see the skill, athleticism, and talent that the NBA players have is what keeps me watching.  People just want to hate on something they know nothing about, because like they say, they don't watch it.

Since: Apr 6, 2007
Posted on: October 27, 2011 11:48 am

Progress on system; 82 games still 'possible'

The players can't start their own league and be viable.  Reasons:

1)Players don't have the capital to fund a league
2)Banks are very hesitant to lend money, in particular large amounts to a group that are particularly high on the risk chart
3)The players won't have anywhere to play that will generate large ticket sales.  Almost all of the arena contracts with the NBA would prevent another men's professional basketball league from signing a lease for the building.  The arena would either have to find an out in the current contract with the NBA team (unlikely and expensive) or the players would have to play in much smaller arenas.
4)The NBA refs are under a CBA with the NBA so they can't really jet.
5)The players are skilled at playing basketball, not running a business.

Since: Aug 17, 2009
Posted on: October 27, 2011 11:45 am

Progress on system; 82 games still 'possible'

Crime will go up if these guys don't get back to playing.  Need something to keep them busy. 

Since: Aug 17, 2009
Posted on: October 27, 2011 11:39 am

Progress on system; 82 games still 'possible'

Wouldn't want to miss out on an 82 game schedule.  They should make it 120 games b/c the NBA is so interesting.

Since: Mar 19, 2008
Posted on: October 27, 2011 11:26 am

Progress on system; 82 games still 'possible'

If the owners decide to cancel the season,the players are setting up to start their own league.There will be pro roundball and current owners would post REAL losses.Ball is in their court.Think they don't have hundreds of millions of reasons to stop this nonsense?

Since: Jan 15, 2008
Posted on: October 27, 2011 11:23 am

Progress on system; 82 games still 'possible'

I don't see how 82 games is possible considering they already canceled games through 11/15, but that would be great!

Since: Sep 19, 2011
Posted on: October 27, 2011 11:10 am

Progress on system; 82 games still 'possible'

If you dont care, cool!  If your not going to watch, cool!  Word of advice though, might want to find a hobby other than posting on basketball articles about why you wont watch or dont care.  Obviously you do care if you took the time out of your day to log onto a sports website, click the NBA section, open the lockout articles and comment on them. 

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