Blog Entry

Colts Loss adds Fuel to Patriots Fans Fire

Posted on: February 9, 2010 1:06 pm
Edited on: February 12, 2010 11:25 am
 

Super Bowl XLIV is over, and what a great game, at least in the second half, it was.  The game was much closer than the final score of 31-17 would indicate.  Congratulations to the Saints, and more importantly to the city of New Orleans, who nobody can doubt deserved this title as much as any NFL city.  The party is in full swing in New Orleans, with the parade this evening, and should continue on through next week with Mardi Gras.  But there is a party going on in a different part of the country for almost the exact opposite reason.  New Englanders are rejoicing because not only did the Indianapolis Colts lose the Super Bowl, but also Peyton Manning’s late interception, which was returned for a TD by Saints DB Tracy Porter, arguably lost the game for the Colts.  For New England fans this loss adds fuel to the “We Hate Peyton Manning” fan club. 

 

In New England, probably more so than any other part of the country, the “Quarterback of the Century” debate is, and has been, in full swing for the decade.  Some of it is pride in their team and pride in their quarterback, as well there should be as they have on three Super Bowls this decade.  But then there is the line of Tom Brady support, and Peyton Manning hate that is often crossed.  No matter the outcome, New England fans just cannot seem to give Peyton his due as even an equal to Tom Brady.  The fact of the matter is New England fans, Peyton Manning is equal and possibly even surpassed Tom Brady as the quarterback of this decade, and there are stats to prove it.  Taking a look at Manning vs Brady during the regular season, since 2001, when Brady assumed a full time role as a starting quarterback:

 

  •                         Brady                                                               Manning
  •                            97                                   Wins                              105
  •                         30,838                             Yards                          37,841
  •                           4,218                           Attempts                        4,852
  •                           2,672                            Completions                    3,218
  •                         63.35%                     Percentage                        66.32%
  •                           225                             TD Passes                            281
  •                            99                                 INTs                                  123

 

With the leader of each category in bold, Manning leads each category except for interceptions.  Unbelievable stats over a ten-year span for Manning, who also has three more years of stats tacked on for his career, which is not shown here.  Manning has thrown more, which will skew attempts and completions a bit, but despite that he still has the higher completion percentage.  He has 8 more wins, despite the fact that Brady missed pretty much the entire 2008 season, and 56 more TD passes, a number Brady probably wouldn’t have put up even if healthy in 2008.  But then the Manning haters will say look at the playoff numbers, well after taking a look at each player’s career in the playoffs, they are not as different as many New England fans might think.  After Super Bowl XLIV, each player has played in eighteen career playoff games, and their playoff stats are as follows:

 

  •                       Brady                                                                  Manning
  •                            14                                 Wins                                    9
  •                           4,108                              Yards                               5,164
  •                           630                             Attempts                          691
  •                           396                           Completions                         436
  •                         62.86%                         Percentage                      63.10%
  •                            28                             TD Passes                             28
  •                            15                                 INTs                                     19

 

In the playoffs, the stat sheets are similar to the regular season.  Brady has fewer interceptions, but Manning has more yards, attempts, completions, and a higher completion percentage.  Each player has thrown for twenty-eight postseason touchdowns, but the key stat Patriot fans will point out is that Brady has fourteen wins in eighteen tries, and three Super Bowl rings as opposed to nine wins and one Super Bowl ring for Manning.  The Super Bowl rings argument will continually be brought up by Patriot fans as to why Tom Brady is better than Peyton Manning.  But are Super Bowl rings really the only thing that determines the value and place in history of an NFL quarterback?  Yes, there has been Super Bowl winning quarterbacks who are not great quarterbacks, and the name that will be brought up in that discussion is Trent Dilfer.  And yes, there are some great quarterbacks who never won a Super Bowl, and anyone who wants to argue that Dan Marino was not a great NFL quarterback better have much more than his lack of Super Bowls wins in their defense.  But if one was to go by Super Bowl rings to determine how great an NFL quarterback is or was, then Terry Bradshaw would have to be considered the greatest quarterback of all time, and I don’t see anyone taking his side on that argument.

 

The fact is there is no system or formula to determine how truly great an NFL quarterback is, or to compare quarterbacks from different centuries besides the stats.  And if there were one developed, there would still probably be those who disagree with some part of the formula.  The fact is New England fans, like it or not, Peyton Manning deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Tom Brady.  There is a line between passion and support for your team, and being in sports denial.  Love them or hate them, and even if they play for the rival teams, there are great athletes outside of New England that are as good or better than even some of the greatest athletes in New England sports lore.  






Comments

Since: Jan 6, 2010
Posted on: February 28, 2010 4:21 pm
 

Colts Loss adds Fuel to Patriots Fans Fire

Terry Bradshaw was  the greatest QB ever and the four SB rings prove it. He could pass long unlike Montana, he could run better than Steve Young, he was elusive, could take a hit, and above all he could win...and did.



Since: Apr 30, 2008
Posted on: February 12, 2010 5:36 pm
 

Colts Loss adds Fuel to Patriots Fans Fire

Hey Bourbon, good comments but I think you missed my point somewhat.  I was simply saying this is a very simple question to answer - who is more valuable to their team? W e've already seen the evidence in '08 when Brady wnet down and the system rolled forward to 11-5.  Take Peyton off the Colts and they are fighting for 8-8.  Appreciate your comments though.



Since: Dec 24, 2009
Posted on: February 12, 2010 8:20 am
 

Colts Loss adds Fuel to Patriots Fans Fire

  QB is a unique position in sports, I plyed it for years and scouted it for 23 more.   The key is intangibles - as well as raw talent.  You never measure a QB by stats alone.  Look I could go on here, but why do it - arguiong be6tween these two guys is very passe.  Neither is as tough or as mobile or strong as Ben Roethlisberger.  
All your post says to me is that age and experience do not always begat wisdom I can agree with.  I wasn't watching in the 60's, nor did I scout, etc., etc., but what your recital fails to take into account is that fans watch ball for different reasons. Not all of them all interested in "tough and mobile" QBs who cannot put up a yearly consistent record (Ben).  Not all are interested in Statistical build up with a QB that chokes through the post season (Manning, Marino).  Not all are interested in multiple Super Bowl wins (Montana, Brady, Bradshaw).   What you like is not definitive, nor even would I say majorative because let's face it, many people aren't you.  

Ben and the Steelers have had some very exciting games - but in terms of the last decade - they really didn't have that big of an impact.  Neither did the Colts.  New England did - they were the team to beat, hate, scorn, whatever you like, but they were the team.  I do agree with your forward looking attitude, but I think you are falling into the 'old man's trap' - it makes no difference if you look backward or into the future; either way you are ignoring the present.  I think Favre and Warner proved that your thinking is a little outdated - the here and now is that 40 year olds today are not the 40 year olds of yester-year.  So you will probably have to adjust your thinking a little.



Since: Dec 24, 2009
Posted on: February 12, 2010 8:02 am
 

Colts Loss adds Fuel to Patriots Fans Fire

1.  You do a disservice to New England.  Pick up an Indianapolis sports rag and read for yourself how much love those folk have for Tom Brady.  All they do is speak about how wonderful Peyton is as Compared to Tom Brady.  So trying to act like it is NE with an issue (a one-sided rivalry with innocent Indy's looking on bewildered) is a blatant misrepresentation.  Much like your post, they put Brady down in order to boost their candidate for world leader football hero.

2.  You pick the stats you wish to use and curiously, they are the ones that allow Peyton to shine.  Let us add some different ones - for example, # TD's in a season @50 - an amazing stat - actually Peyton's 49 was an amazing stat (and I have a feeling it would have made it on here if Brady hadn't surpassed it).  Other factors like a 3% difference in completions - isn't that different considering the Patriots incorporated a greater % running game over the years.  I could go on, but you can see why your argument is not entirely valid.

3.  The difference between 105 and 97 is not 34.  It is 8.  Why did you say Manning had 34 more wins?  That doesn't jive with your statistics.

4.  Brady has played 8 seasons - from 2001 through 2007 and then the 2009 season.  Manning has played from 1998 through 2009 - a total of 12 seasons.  He has no problem admitting this - why would you?  You cannot count Brady's 2008 season - unless you are you of course.  And you can't count his 2000 benched season either.  Not certain what your numbers represent.

Bottom line is that I, and many others don't really care about the statistics.  Peyton Manning is a good Quarterback, as is Brees, Big Ben, Rivers, Rodgers, and more - but in your effort to show Manning is equal or better than Brady, you have gone overboard - and are guilty of the very behavior you accused the NE fans of.  You have to show Tom Brady as inferior to make your point, which goes back to what I was saying about the stats you chose - those you consider important to your argument. 

Who are you to say that the stats you chose are the most indicative?  Who are you to say that the number of super bowls, the most TDs in a season, the most passing yards in a season, etc., are not the most important stats?  Isn't it what is most important to a fan?  I don't get excited when Peyton is the youngest to break 50K yards - I get excited when Peyton wins the Super Bowl. 

So I look at my QB, and Brady has led the way to 4 exciting super bowls and 3 exciting wins; a 16-0 season and many a clutch games and plays along the way - this was exciting to me.  Brady also broke Mannings record and got 50 TDs as I mentioned above - guess what?  That wasn't exciting to me.  He got more yardage in 2007 than Manning too - that didn't excite me either - Brees got over 5000 - that didn't excite me either.  The Saints winning the bowl - that excited me.  The Pats winning the Bowl, that excited me.  The Pats LOSING the bowl the Colts LOSING the bowl - that excited me too because it was a BOWL and they were IN IT.  A 16-0 season of WINS - sure that is exciting, cuz we won them all and there were no more to win.  WINNING that is exciting - not addition.

I can't speak for all NE fans - but most comments against Peyton on my end are in response to Indy fans making irrational assertions about Peyton Manning.  No, the greatest QB ever doesn't have just 1 super bowl in my opinion, so I respond with what makes football exciting to me:  winning.  That doesn't make Manning a bad QB, it just keeps him from ever attaining the position of a QB I enjoy watching - he simply loses too much in the post season.




Since: Apr 30, 2008
Posted on: February 12, 2010 3:48 am
 

This is ALL SO Meaningless

Looks like we have another young football fan with too much time on his hands and watching way too much ESPN nonsense.  All these gay little statistcial comparisons mean nothing.  QB is a unique position in sports, I plyed it for years and scouted it for 23 more.   The key is intangibles - as well as raw talent.  You never measure a QB by stats alone.  Look I could go on here, but why do it - arguiong be6tween these two guys is very passe.  Neither is as tough or as mobile or strong as Ben Roethlisberger.  Ben has more rings than Peyton.  Ben doesn't get all red faced and yell at his receivers when he gets pressured like Peyton does either.  Without that line Peyton would have very very different numbers.  The best QB's succeeed even without good lines, like Ben in 2008 winning a ring. 

Looks folks this is very, very simple.  Brady and Peyton are both good QBs but neither are anywhere near the conversation of best ever, or even best right now. 5-6 yers ago, sure.  Anyone who thinks they are in the best ever mix simply has not wacthed football since the '60's like I have.  Id take Bradshaw, Starr, and Staubach over these two and that;s before I even need to think about anyone else.  Thoise are men who would win anywhere.  If you wanna compare these two however, it is very simple - in 2008 the Pats go 11-5 with a guy who should be parking cars at the Hyatt.  Brady is the definitive "system QB", a product of his envrionment 100%.  Now you take Peyton out of Indy - and you think they go 11-5?  Absolutely not. No Peyton and the Colts are the joke they'd been since the late '70's when Marchibroda coached them.   Peyton is clearly the more valuable player to his team, which is how I think you measure these two guys.  But again, it isn't 2003 anymore, so why are we even talking about these guys.  I would take Ben, Brees or Sanchez or Rivers over these two guys anyway right now.

It was beautiftful seeing Peyton choke that Super Bowl away though, and show his true colors under pressure.  He absolutely blew that game with his pick 6.  Of course a smy Saints buddies remind me, no guarantee they win, just tie.  But they have a chance at least.  That was almost as fun as watching little Timmy Tebow cry his eyes out on national TV after Bama got done wiping the Georgia Dome turf with the Gators in the SEC title game.  Oh, I just got an IM from Gainesville, they tell me he's still crying.  Now there's a guy who will do absolutely nothing in the NFL.



Since: Jul 29, 2009
Posted on: February 11, 2010 8:03 pm
 

Colts Loss adds Fuel to Patriots Fans Fire

I hate the Cheatriots and who knows if their cheating ways influenced any Super Bowl outcomes (st Louis and Carolina to be exact).

However, the argument here is who is the better QB.

Thus, I will side with Shaq and say IT'S ALL ABOUT THE JEWELRY.

Brady and Manning are very even.  You can argue the Superbowls on one side and the continued longevity and greatness on the other.  However Brady's playoff record speaks for itself and that is the deciding factor.  Whether Reggie Wayne should have touched that ball on the INT or the killer dropped balls, at the end of the day they did not get it done.

Brady 1A and Manning 1B for the last 10 years.

However, I do think Manning is better today and going forward and he could surpass Brady in the next year or two.

I would still Joe Montana over all of them in the Super Bowl.



Since: Feb 11, 2010
Posted on: February 11, 2010 4:33 pm
 

Colts Loss adds Fuel to Patriots Fans Fire

     The Colts have played great defense when it comes playoff time.  Don't give me switching the defenses crap.  This Super Bowl is probably the most points they gave up in a playoff game besides the AFC Championship against the Pats and both those games had a Manning pick for a TD.  So stop that nonsense.  Every great quarterback had a great team behind them.



Since: Nov 11, 2006
Posted on: February 11, 2010 4:07 pm
 

Colts Loss adds Fuel to Patriots Fans Fire

Let's not forget that teams win and lose games - not players.  For instance in the Super Bowl, the Colts didn't lose because of Peyton.  He threw a pick, but it was because Wayne wasn't on the same page.  Peyton thought he was going to come accross the middle and Wayne just curled.  It's not Peyton's fault. If Wayne did what Peyton expected, the Colts get a first down.

Peyton didn't play special teams in the Super Bowl.  He also didn't drop two touchdown passes or make a poor decision on a screen pass.  If you really are looking at who cost the Colts the Super Bowl, look no further than the wideouts.  Garcon dropped what likely would have been a TD.  Wayne dropped a sure TD.  Collie took a screen pass and ran away from his three blockers when their was only one defensder to beat.  Baskett looked like the knew an onside kick was coming and still didn't cover the ball.  The wideouts left 17+ points on the field in addition to giving the Saints points.

Additionally, the Colts didn't catch many breaks in that game.  All the questionable/bad calls went against them - not the holding Dwight Freeney type of calls.  Specifically, the "late hit" out of bounds that led to New Orleans first field goal.  The runner was either in bounds or had just stepped his toe on the line - either way it's hardly a late hit.  The two point coversion was iffy.  I've seen it called both ways, and figured it would be upheld because the call on the field was conversion failed.  No biggie.  I can see it going either way, but again Peyton didn't make that call.  Peyton also didn't make the non-call of the clip on the interception return.

I didn't even get into the atrocious tackling on defense.  Peyton, the O Line (regardless of what Polian says), and Addai were the only Colts that showed up.  It's hard to win a Super Bowl when your defense plays below par, your wideouts absolutely suck, and your special teams make your wideouts look like Pro Bowlers.

Were the Colts outplayed on Sunday?  Absolutely.  Was it Peyton's fault they lost?  Not by a longshot.



Since: Apr 30, 2009
Posted on: February 11, 2010 2:22 pm
 

Colts Loss adds Fuel to Patriots Fans Fire

Give me Manning any day of the week if you also give me the defenses that the Patriots had when they won their Superbowls.  In the years that Brady actually won the superbowl, the Patriots defense was ranked 6th, 1st, and 2nd in fewest points allowed.  When Manning won his SB, his defense was 21st in points allowed. 

No one will ever convince me that Brady is markedly better than Manning until Brady can take a team that isn't built to run the ball and play great D to the Superbowl and actually win the game.  Manning has done it.  Brady hasn't.  You can't put it all on the QB's shoulders.  Football is the most team oriented game in America.  Brady has had great teams.   Manning hasn't.



Since: Nov 11, 2009
Posted on: February 11, 2010 2:13 pm
 

Colts Loss adds Fuel to Patriots Fans Fire

"Switch the two qb's teams and Manning walks off with 5 rings."

IM good with that!!!
all you just said Jcolts18 just says that the PATRIOTS ARE BETTER IN THE LONG RUN!!!!!!


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