Blog Entry

Phillies protest loss to Marlins

Posted on: September 4, 2011 3:53 pm
Edited on: September 4, 2011 8:54 pm
Bryan Petersen
Charlie ManuelBy C. Trent Rosecrans

The Phillies finished Sunday's 5-4 loss to the Marlins in 14 innings under protest, following an instant replay review that may have cost the Phillies two runs in the sixth inning.

The protest came after umpire Joe West (who else?) used instant replay to review fans Hunter Pence double in the top of the sixth inning. After reviewing the play, Pence was called out on fan interference. Pence's ball was hit to right field, where Florida's Bryan Petersen lept to try to catch the ball, but instead a fan in a green shirt and another in a Phillies jersey and hat, leaned over the railing to try to catch the ball. The ball bounced off the fan in green's hand, just above Petersen's glove, then bounced off the outstretched hat and into the corner in right, giving Pence a double and allowing Ryan Howard to get to third.

As soon as West reviewed the play and announced Pence was out, Phillies manager Charlie Manuel argued and was ejected. In all, the delay lasted 13 minutes, with not only Manuel arguing, but also bench coach Pete Mackanin arguing it as well. Their argument was that fan interference isn't one of the approved uses of replay.

"If they wanted to see if it was for a defense play, I didn't think you could do that," Manuel told reporters (News Journal). "My understanding is that's not the rule." 

The fan clearly interfered with the ball, so ultimately it was the correct call. ESPN's Steve Berthiaume spoke with former Major League umpire Jim McKean, who told him that once the umpires decided to review whether it was a home run, the umpires could then use their judgement to rule on fan interference (Twitter).

According to the rule, the umpire can use his "sole discretion" in determining the use of replay, though Joe West told reporters the umpires were reviewing the home run (a charge Manuel denied), but that home plate umpire Chad Fairchild believed there was fan interference on the play. The second part of the matter was that the umpires ruled Pence out -- the Phillies outfielder didn't quite agree that Petersen was definitely making the catch.

"I'm going to say it's one of the best plays of the week if he makes it," Pence said (News Journal). 

Said Petersen: "I honestly don't know what happened. I thought I was going to catch the ball." (Sun-Sentinel)

The next Phillies batter after Pence, Raul Ibanez, doubled, which would have scored both Pence and Howard. Instead, after an intentional walk to load the bases, Wilson Valdez grounded into a double play to end the inning.

The Marlins then took the lead with a run in the bottom of the sixth inning with a run off of Roy Halladay.

Since the Phillies lost the game, Joe Torre will review the appeal. If Torre agrees the umpire erred, the game would be replayed from that at-bat -- but without Manuel, who was ejected. Here's a list of protested games that were later resumed, including, of course, the Pine Tar Game. No protest game has been replayed from the point of pretest since 1986 in a game between the Cardinals and Pirates.

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Since: Jul 9, 2009
Posted on: September 4, 2011 8:29 pm

Phillies protest loss to Marlins

Hattie, those of us who comment here on this thread obviously are interested in such matters--including the outcomes of games, pennant races, etc., that are affected by such calls.  If you're not interested in such things,you probably shouldn't be here to begin with.  And if you are, don't protest too much.

tar, considering that probably at least a third of the people in that stadium today were Phillies phans, the chances do sort of increase that a ball will be hit near one of them.  Do you really think the result would have been much different if it had been a Marlins fan instead?

Since: Oct 26, 2009
Posted on: September 4, 2011 8:26 pm

Phillies protest loss to Marlins

Hooti, where are you or the AP getting that Manuel was requesting a home run?

 and  for a start.

also, there is   "I had two managers on the field," West said. "One of them was arguing that they wanted an out, and the other was arguing that he wanted a home run. Because they wanted me to go look because they wanted a home run, I got to judge whether it went over the fence or not.

Since: May 5, 2009
Posted on: September 4, 2011 8:15 pm

Phillies protest loss to Marlins

a phillies fan being an idiot during a game. what a surprise

Since: Jul 26, 2009
Posted on: September 4, 2011 8:14 pm

Phillies protest loss to Marlins

Agreed argo444, in reality he probably does not. That was just an option that a former ump said that the Ump could have used since the entire thing was based on a judgement call.  I too am not pleased with Manual's Bullpen moves as of late. He should have never used Bastardo last night after he just pitched two consecutive days. Everyone is bashing Herndon, but he did great today considering what he went through last night.  He tends to get into trouble when he's brought in to clean up someone else's mess.

I am also very frustrated about their lack of small ball play. When Martinez led of the 10th or 11th with a double, Utley who did nothing all day should have bunted him over. why they didn't is uncomprehendable?  Then the Marlins walk Howard & Pence hits a deep fly which woulda score Martinez and we might not even be talking about this game been played under protest!

Since: Dec 3, 2006
Posted on: September 4, 2011 8:08 pm

Phillies protest loss to Marlins


Since: May 17, 2009
Posted on: September 4, 2011 8:07 pm

Phillies protest loss to Marlins

Everyone must be blind or something.  Did we watch the same game.  it was Marlins McKeon who walked out and protest, NOT Phils Manager Manuel.  The reporters are LYING to report the FACTS otherwise.  I watched the game myself...the double on-the-field ruling was going to stand until McKeon came out and argued.  Why are these AP reporters, and other people, LYING about what happened?  And, oh, it is illegal under currently baseball rules to use replay except to determine if a ball is HR or not.  It was ruled double, end of story, NO replay use was authorized.

Since: Jul 9, 2009
Posted on: September 4, 2011 8:03 pm

Phillies protest loss to Marlins

sstambaugh, to be honest, I can't picture Ryan Howard tagging and going from first to second on any fly ball, no matter how deep.  And he's been running especially badly lately
But I agree that management has probably made a mistake temporarily leaving the team relatively shorthanded (with Kendrick away on paternity leave, Bastardo unavailable today, etc.), while the opponent has a bunch of extra players from Sept. 1 on.  Supposedly it's because Lehigh Valley is in playoff contention, but to my mind that's just too bad--if the players are needed here, they should be here.  I'm not sure this is all on Charlie, though I have been puzzled by a couple of his bullpen moves the last couple of games.  The failure to make callups was presumably the decision of the front office, not the field manager.  A shame, after all the good moves they've made, but let's hope it turns out to be just a blip.

Since: Jul 26, 2009
Posted on: September 4, 2011 7:54 pm

Phillies protest loss to Marlins

I just watched a bunch of opinions on the subject on MLB tonight.  The umps "Joe fat ass West" are claiming that Charlie Manual wanted them to check to see if it was a homerun and that Jack McGeown wanted them to check for fan interference.  Charlie said he never asked them to check to see if it was a home run.  But after calling Pence out they had the option of letting Howard go to 2nd if they felt that he would have tagged up and went there after the catch was made. Instead of just sending him back to first.  Even though they have former Umps and coaches swearing up and down that the Umps made the right call, I disagree.  They basically assumed that the RF would make that catch on the run while jumping up against the wall.

Don't see this getting upheld though, I believe that it will stand and the Phils will take the loss. Personally, I'm just pissed about the whole thing and last nights implosion by the pen, thanks on part to charlie refusing to use other pitchers.  I'm sick of hearing they have a comfortable lead in the divison, etc,etc, I want this divison wrapped up ASAP so they can rest some arms and starters. Anything short of that will result in another early exit from the playoffs. 

Since: Dec 30, 2006
Posted on: September 4, 2011 7:41 pm

Phillies protest loss to Marlins

Phillies fan, but what I dont understand is how you can call the guy out......  Replay should not be there to assume the guy catches the ball. The fans in this case are morons and need to keep their hands away from the fielders, but an umpire can never assume an out would have been made.  This should have remained a double and the game should have moved on from there.  Umpires can  not assume the OF would have made the play.  I understand that there was interference, but it could be a fan from either team interfere.  What if it were a Florida fan (not that there are any) that interfered with the Pence hit??  Can you still call him out?  If that is the case, you will start seeing alot more fan interference calls..  

Since: Jul 9, 2009
Posted on: September 4, 2011 7:39 pm

Phillies protest loss to Marlins

Dominoes, I'm not sure I disagree with anything you've said, but two points:
(1) Whether the policies are good or not, the most "inane and laughable" thing is if they stay on the books and are not enforced.  A large part of the point of having these rules is so that everyone knows what the policy is and what to expect, from the umpires and the league, and can plan their actions accordingly.  If the rules should be changed, change them--but don't just ignore them.  That promotes more disrespect than anything else.
(2) I thought only one of the two fans visible near the outfielder was wearing Phillies gear.  I'm not sure--and correct me if I'm wrong--but I thought the one who actually interfered was the one not wearing the Phillies stuff.  Now that doesn't prove he wasn't a Phillies phan, and I don't know whether they were sitting together, but we shouldn't jump to conclusions.  But it's probably true that there are attempts afoot right now to find out their identities.  By the way, I assume that at least one of them was ejected from the game, so I assume the stadium management got their names, if no one else did.

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