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Hunter: Players, some owners open to Cuban plan

Posted on: October 24, 2011 4:53 pm
Edited on: October 24, 2011 10:56 pm
 
Posted by Royce Young

Billy Hunter was on the B.S. Report to discuss the lockout, spending about an hour discussing any and everything about the current state of labor talks.

He said he sees these negotiations as similar to 1998's lockout that resulted in 32 lost games, but felt that last week's long negotiations were going to yield something positive.

"I thought we were trying to reach compromise when we were there last week," Hunter said. "I suspect it's more about an internal battle that may be brewing or that's occuring between the big and small markets over the proposals we've submitted.

"We don't want to be totally exploited."

Hunter recounted a meeting with David Stern in Cleveland a few years ago during the postseason where Stern said his owners were ready and willing to miss an entire season to force player salary rollbacks.

Hunter said that the owners have acknowledged that 53 percent covers their losses and gives them the "possibility" of making a profit, citing specifically Peter Holt. And also said that players, having come down from 57 percent to as low as 52.5 in terms of Basketball Related Income split, are starting to dig into these negotiations for more reasons than just money, implying that it has moved past just dollars and cents, but is about the principle of getting a fair deal and they're willing to take the hit in order to get it. Now it's becoming a moral issue to them.

"They're principled individuals," Hunter said. "After a while, it becomes a principle ... the players are a little bit more strident."

Hunter said that during last week's long negotiations there were multiple ideas presented, with one interesting concept coming from Mavericks owner Mark Cuban. Hunter said Cuban came up with a structure called the "Game-changer" that included no salary cap. Hunter said he took that back to the players and they had a version of it they liked and then Hunter said two or three owners were very excited about it. And then a couple small market owners put the kibosh on it.

"We're open to the idea Mark Cuban put on the table," he said.

Hunter also commented on NHL player Bill Guerin's statements that holding out for a deal wasn't worth it, saying that he and his staff have been "very transparent" with the players about how much they'll lose per week, per month or even for a season. But also said the players are actively pursuing every opportunity to make a deal.

"We've indicated that we're ready to sit down and negotiate with them in a minute's notice," Hunter said. "I'm prepared to do anything within reason -- within reason -- to get a deal."

Hunter relayed that he had told the owners that concessions on systems issues might make the NBA's 50-50 offer "more palatable" to players. Meaning, I think, that owners could get their desired 50-50 BRI split if they'll work on some of their systematic demands. But Hunter said the owners will only negotiate system on the precondition of a 50-50 split. Which is when Dan Gilbert evidently told Hunter to "trust his gut" on the system.

Hunter was asked about Bryant Gumbel's comments that compared Stern to a "plantation overseer," simply answering, "I don't think David is racist at all." But he did try and explain why Stern's being so hard-headed on these negotiations.

"I think the reason David's being so stubborn is he's got a new crop of owners," Hunter said. "He's got all these guys who are extremely successful, making billions of dollars and they bought these franchises. And they just have a different perspective."

It's honestly easy to hear Hunter's side of the story and lean towards the players. He presents a side that's very open to every compromise, open to every idea but is being met with a hard wall of stubborn owners looking for a blowout victory in these negotiations. Is it encouraging? Somewhat. Hunter was very straightforward with how much the players are willing to concede to get a deal done. I think they're position is out in the open. They want a deal where they can feel that the owners didn't get everything they wanted and raked them over the coals.

If it eventually comes to that, the players will be ready to deal. How long that's going to take is the question.
Category: NBA
Comments

Since: Dec 13, 2007
Posted on: November 1, 2011 10:07 pm
 

Hunter: Players, some owners open to Cuban plan

You have change my mind. I know believe we should get rid of that evil union and let every player negotiate his own contract.  Just  the player and the individual team. Just like every other American.  I wonder if you would object to that also.




Since: Oct 5, 2006
Posted on: October 26, 2011 12:46 pm
 

NBA is a partnership; not a business.

Redwings 1969,

You need to come back to reality, I think.

Players have offered a 50/50 at one time.  However, the owners rejected it because they didn't also offer a hard cap.  Now, the owners; not getting their hard cap, are refusing to meet if the players do not agree to a 50/50.  The players WILL agree to a 50/50 assuming they get other things in return....or they will agree to a agreement close to a 50/50; which is several percentage points down from 57%.  Finally today, rumor is; they have backed off their 50/50 requirement to at least talk of other disagreements that maybe can be resolved.

Odds are they will get around 52%, higher luxury tax...and the NBA will be paved toward contraction.  They will also get rookie contract rules in place to ensure a rookie isn't overpaid...esp if he isn't playing.  Like Oden, for example.  They may even get shorter contracts.

And the players are smart to not give in to the owners.  Cause if they want 50 today and won't back down; what is to stop them from asking for 57 the next contact...and more and more.  Hence the reason the players are sticking to their guns.  57% to 50% drop is incredible.  I'm not sure I'd give that up in one year either.  Esp within a recession where few businesses look good.  They know; if they give it up; they won't get it back.

Two, there are many "players" fans.  I'm one.  Since Jordan, folks are fans of Jordan not the Bulls.  Or fans of Kobe and not the Lakers.  Many "fans" will change team allegiences to follow a player.  Hence the reason places like Cleveland fills up cause Kobe comes to town....  Before Lebron and after, Cavs may struggle to keep a fan base in the arena.  But it was never trouble when Lebron played.  Why?  That is a fan league my friend.  Now, as I already stated, there are a few teams that are still "team" driven....but teams without a star will struggle to fill seats no matter who they are.   Fans come out to see the stars; whether it is the star on your team or the other team.  I know tons of fans of basketball and the majority like players.  They may have a "favorite" team but if they are to pay money; it may be when their favorite team plays their favorite player (which very possibly is on another team).  Or folks like me who love the sport and certain players although really isnt' a fan of any one team.  To think fans are only taem fans is to be extremely niave.

As for the "zero chance" to start their own league.  Obviously this is ludicrious.  They can do that right now simply by going overseas.  It may take time, but it can be done.  It may be less money...but more then they are making right now via the lockout.  So why not plan it.  Start planning a summer session with NBA players and get the ball rolling.  If anything, it will keep the owners sane; realizing they are looking at other options.

Doesn't seem the owners are in the drivers seat right now.



Since: Feb 6, 2007
Posted on: October 26, 2011 11:37 am
 

Hunter: Players, some owners open to Cuban plan

You made my point they collectively bargained an agreement and the owners don't like the result. Second who's fault is it exactly that Jerry Buss paid Gasol and Bynum that much money? The players? Are they suppose to say no don't pay me that much? It is the owners. That is the real issue here. These billionaire business man can't control themselves they pay big contracts to players that they shouldn't then they complain about it. That is their fault not the players.

No it is not as simple as a free market. If the players decertified and challenged the NBA structure they would win an anititrust suit because the owners do collude. The problem wiith that approach is that it would take 3 years and the players don't have that time (because of the fact that athletes have a limited time to play in thier prime) and the owners know it.

Lastly, I am not sure what industry you operate in but 50 grand for a million dollars in revenue is beyond untenable. So laughable I think you are just making things up. But the point is that if i am that stupid salesperson making 50,000 on the million dollars of business I generate I can go to another firm that will pay me a salary comenseraute with what they pay in the real world and not la la land. In the NBA you cannot do that.

But in any event comparing those types of salespeople to NBA players is a red herring and you know it. You said "highly skilled"  what are NBA players? How many people pay to see it.

These owners made a bad deal and want to make a new deal now that is not fair but guarantees them a profit and protects them from themsleves from making bad decisions like paying joe johnson a max contract. What a joke.



Since: Dec 5, 2006
Posted on: October 26, 2011 11:14 am
 

Hunter: Players, some owners open to Cuban plan

If you own a business valued at $300 million and don't make at least $30 million dollars of profit you really don't have a business, you have a collectible. This analysis assumes capital appreciation of the business. Currently 1/2 of the league is losing money. The players have offered a deal that gives the possibility of making a profit? Owners shouldn't do that deal. The model is broken, let the owners make a nominal profit and if 50/50 gets too profitable negotiate next contract, but a true partner which the players aren't but think they are would make whole the losses of another partner.



Since: Sep 19, 2011
Posted on: October 26, 2011 10:21 am
 

Hunter: Players, some owners open to Cuban plan

I REALLY WISH YOU IDIOTS WOULD STOP SAYING THAT THE PLAYERS TURNED DOWN A 50-50 SPLIT OF GROSS REVENUE!!! The owners would be the second dumbest group of businessmen ever to offer half of gross and the players would be first for not taking it!  They are speaking of BRI which is about 20% of gross! 




Since: Dec 24, 2010
Posted on: October 26, 2011 4:23 am
 

Hunter: Players, some owners open to Cuban plan

I DONT KNOW HOW MUCH YOU KNOW ABOUT ENGINEERING OR BUSINESS BUT THE COMPANY I WORK FOR DOES MAKE A HUGE PROFIT OFF OF WHAT I DO. MOST COMPANIES HAVE TO MAKE AT LEAST 3 OR 4 TIMES WHAT THEY PAY AN EMPLOYEE TO PAY FOR THE COST OF RUNNING A BUSINESS (BENEFITS, WORKMANS COMP, OVERHEAD, ETC) SO SORRY YOUR POINT BACK IS EVEN MORE RIDICULOUS. YES I DO HAVE THE OPTION OF TRYING TO GET AS MUCH MONEY AS I CAN WHEN CHOOSING A COMPANY TO WORK FOR BUT THE END RESULT IS THE SAME. LETS SAY I DISCOVERED THAT THE COMPANY I WORK FOR IS MAKING 3 OR 4 TIMES WHAT THEY PAY ME AND SAY SO DOES THE REST OF THE EMPLOYEES WORKING FOR THIS COMPANY DISCOVER THE SAME. SHOULD WE ALL GET TOGETHER AND TRY TO TAKE THE COMPANIES NEWLY DISCOVERED PROFITS? IMAGINE IF ALL THE COMPANIES IN THE WORLD TRIED THIS TYPE OF (FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM) TAKEOVER.....THE PLAYERS AND OWNERS DID NOT GO INTO BUSINESS TOGETHER. THE LEAGUE WAS ESTABLISHED AS A BUSINESS AND THEN HIRED ITS EMPLOYEES AKA PLAYERS AFTER. IT'S A BUSINESS. WHAT IDIOT ON THIS SITE SAID THE NBA IS NOT A BUSINESS???????THAT THE PLAYERS AND OWNERS ARE IN THIS TOGETHER.....???????????????IDIOT.......



Since: May 23, 2009
Posted on: October 25, 2011 5:26 pm
 

Hunter: Players, some owners open to Cuban plan

By the way, I love Carbondale and Little Giant State Park.
If you like spending time outdoors, this region has a lot to offer.  The winters are still a bit too cold to make it prime destination, but that's good in a way; too many people in the region would probably change things for the worse.
But I have one more comment on the 50% BRI issue.  In many organizations, labor is the largest operating cost.  Where I work, labor cost accounts for nearly 94% of our budget.  Our money issues are well publicized, but while asking workers to take less pay to keep the doors open may one way to deal with the money problem, the stick does have 2 ends.



Since: Jan 13, 2011
Posted on: October 25, 2011 5:10 pm
 

Hunter: Players, some owners open to Cuban plan

It would be helpful to know what the "Cuban plan" is. It's referenced in the title of the article and a couple times in the article, but it's not even remotely explained.



Since: Jun 25, 2009
Posted on: October 25, 2011 4:47 pm
 

Hunter: Players, some owners open to Cuban plan

I think you forgot about the luxuary taxes. The players did agree with a 50/50 but with the tax staying the same.  The owners wanted a 50/50 with a significant higher tax. So you might want to do more research.

That's the problem with you union people and player supporters, you let these people fool you with meangingless and worthless crap.

At 50-50 the players get half of everything.  If the gross revenue is 4 billion dollars as they expect it will be, the players will get 2 billion dollars and the owners get the other billion dollars.  What do luxury taxes have to do with what the players are getting?  All an increase in luxury taxes does is penalizing a team from overspending and possibly allowing more teams to contend for titles.  The NBA wants parity, the parity other leagues have.  What portion of the luxury taxes do the players on the team over the limit pay?  Zero, that's right... one big fat zero.  Oh wait, it stops them from joining forces with other superstars to make "dream teams"??? Too bad...

The bottom line is 50 percent of the gross without having to take any risk at all or cover any expenses other then personal expenses is a damn good deal for the players... it's actually a phenominal deal.

Too bad they were too stupid to accept it... 



Since: Oct 14, 2010
Posted on: October 25, 2011 4:27 pm
 

Hunter: Players, some owners open to Cuban plan

Salukiman, good points and I will take them under consideration.  I probably got lost in my own rant but I think they don't deserve any more than 50 % of BRI because they are employees who take no business risk.  By the way, I love Carbondale and Little Giant State Park.


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