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Blog Entry

The Poll Attacks

Posted on: December 19, 2011 3:42 pm
Edited on: December 19, 2011 3:46 pm
 
By Gary Parrish

UNLV should be ranked ahead of Illinois.

Only six Associated Press voters don't understand this.

But hopefully those six will learn their lesson in this week's Poll Attacks.

Associated Press poll: Leaving UNLV off your ballot is wrong.

Leaving UNLV off your ballot that includes Illinois?

That's way wrong.

But six AP voters -- Bill Cole, Elton Alexander, Pete Glibert, Roger Clarkson, Ron Morris and Rod Beard -- managed to do exactly that this week, and so now they find themselves in the middle of the Poll Attacks. Merry Christmas, fellas. Did you see what UNLV did to Illinois on Saturday in Chicago? The Rebels won 64-48. And, no, head-to-head matchups aren't the deciding factor on everything. They can't be. But UNLV doesn't only have that 16-point victory over the Illini in Illinois, the Rebels also have a better overall body of work.

UNLV has wins over No. 5 North Carolina and No. 25 Illinois, and the Rebels' only losses are at No. 13 Wisconsin and at Wichita State, which is receiving votes in the AP poll.  Meantime, Illinois has zero wins over schools currently ranked. So UNLV has better wins than Illinois, no real bad losses and -- don't forget this -- a dominant win over the Illini in Chicago. In my opinion, both schools should be ranked. So I'm not killing Illinois. All I'm saying is that UNLV should also be ranked. And definitely above Illinois. Because ranking Illinois while not ranking UNLV is almost as dumb as Will Barton being an official candidate for an award given annually to the nation's top point guard.

Coaches poll:
Would you drop a team because it lost a game when three players fouled out?

Of course you would.

We all would.

Which is why I have no problem with the coaches dropping Xavier from ninth to 15th in this week's poll even though Tu Holloway, Mark Lyons and Dez Wells did not play in Sunday's home loss to Oral Roberts, because they essentially fouled out of the game before it started via the roles they played in that brawl against Cincinnati. They were all suspended because of their actions. So why shouldn't Xavier pay a price for that?

An injury?

That's nobody's fault.

That's why Ohio State didn't suffer when Jared Sullinger's absence cost the Buckeyes at Kansas.

But Holloway, Lyons and Wells are responsible for putting their team in a bad spot just like when somebody else's starting center picks up two dumb fouls early and puts his team in a bad spot. When that team loses, we don't excuse it and say, "But that team wouldn't have lost if its center would've played smarter." So why should we excuse Xavier's loss and say, "But the Musketeers wouldn't have lost if Holloway, Lyons and Wells would've acted appropriately against Cincinnati?"

Answer: We shouldn't.

So I'm OK with how the coaches handled Xavier.

It's similar to how we handled the Musketeers in the Top 25 (and one).

And I realize this is sort of a reverse Poll Attack, but whatever. I wanted to make that point.
Comments

Since: May 31, 2011
Posted on: December 20, 2011 2:05 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Um, they are not even the worst in the top 10, do you look at stuff before you type it?  Do you think people on here just take your word for things?

I'll try this again for the reading impaired...


 For the sake of discussion take away the UK game and IU has arguably played the worst schedule so far of any team in Division 1

I don't know how to make that text flash, or I would do that too.  Try reading the entire sentence next time before you start shooting your mouth off, smartass.
 



Since: May 31, 2011
Posted on: December 20, 2011 2:00 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Again, yet to hear an argument to sway my opinion.  And yours is right there.  
I get the feeling no argument is going to sawy your opinion so I won't bother to further elaborate.

Just continue to look at wins and losses and ignore everything else there is that doesn't back up your opinion.  

I'm sure you know more about baskeball than the coaches and the AP writers.  Another IU fan agreed with you so it must be true, right?






Since: Aug 24, 2006
Posted on: December 20, 2011 1:57 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

To date, IU's SoS is ranked 320 (out of 345) and that includes the UK game.  For the sake of discussion take away the UK game (since you say you should be a top 20 team even without it) and IU has arguably played the worst schedule so far of any team in Division 1.  Not just the worst schedule of the top 25.


Um, they are not even the worst in the top 10, do you look at stuff before you type it?  Do you think people on here just take your word for things?

Baylor and Missouri are in the top 10, and according to the ratings of SOS that YOU pointed out, have a schedule that would be considered worse. 

Just cause you type it doesn't make it so.   Care to comment on your mistake and say your post was just flat out wrong?  Probably not.  Even though its right there for all to see.



Since: Aug 24, 2006
Posted on: December 20, 2011 1:37 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Well, smashed, I'm glad you asked.  Here's your answer...

Per Sagarins ratings:  (the preferred ranking of your fellow IU bellyacher cftlener)

To date, IU's SoS is ranked 320 (out of 345) and that includes the UK game.



Um, that same rating has IU as #3 in the nation.  Probably based on the fact that IU has a whopping 32ppg margin of victory over those team that are bringing down that SOS.  

Use that ranking for SOS but not for the results is asanine.  You cant just take what you want from an Sagarins and leave the rest.  Thats like saying you like the ranking but you don't like the ranking.   

BTW SOS compared to other teams all ranked WAY over IU in parrish's top 26... Baylor is #325, KY is #245 (has a loss).  Ohio St. #258 (has a loss), Missouri 341,  all top 10 teams (some with losses)  Georgetown 324,  I can go on and on but  I think I made my point. 

As for Harvard, NO WINS over top 25 teams, AND A LOSS.

SOS means nothing if you don't beat the good teams that bring that up.

Again, yet to hear an argument to sway my opinion.  And yours is right there. 

LOL, use a ranking and then deny the ranking....Is it good info or not?  Can't be both.



Since: May 31, 2011
Posted on: December 20, 2011 1:19 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

How is IU not in ANYONE's top 20?   Even without the win over Kentucky.  Undefeated after 11 games is extremely tough to do.  They are top 20 with that alone.
How are they not in anyone's top 15?  
Well, smashed, I'm glad you asked.  Here's your answer...

Per Sagarins ratings:  (the preferred ranking of your fellow IU bellyacher cftlener)

To date, IU's SoS is ranked 320 (out of 345) and that includes the UK game.  For the sake of discussion take away the UK game (since you say you should be a top 20 team even without it) and IU has arguably played the worst schedule so far of any team in Division 1.  Not just the worst schedule of the top 25.  The worst schedule of all 345 Division 1 teams.  Forgive me if I'm not impressed.

So no, going undefeated against that schedule is not extremely tough to do.  Beating UK was extremely tough and to date, that's IU's one and only accomplishment of note.

As far as Harvard goes, they've played one home game. IU has played mostly home and neutral games.  Harvard gutted it out on the road against far better competition than IU.  That's why they get more respect.
 
Harvard Crimson > Hoosier Crimson.  

In short, flukes happen all of the time.  Did you watch any NFL games last Sunday?  The afternoon was littered with fluke upsets.  I don't think the Chiefs are better than Green Bay because of 1 game.  So far, IU's undefeated season is meaningless because of the criminaly easy schedule they've played.  The UK game has me on alert though.  If they can actually beat another good team, I'll start giving them some respect, but right now they haven't earned it.  



Since: Jan 14, 2009
Posted on: December 20, 2011 12:41 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Well said Smashed.  I don't understand his low ranking of IU - having a double digit road win on the road in the ACC against NC State, a 16 point win over Butler who just beat Purdue, a double digit win over Notre Dame on a neutral court, and really looking good in every cream-puff game should garner more respect like it has from the AP and coaches. I've watched every game, and Indiana can flat-out shoot.  Reminds me a little of the 2002 team that struggled at times on the road, but then plastered the field and beat #1 Duke enroute to the NCAA title game. 



Since: Jan 14, 2009
Posted on: December 20, 2011 12:33 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

What an unintelligent post.  Syracuse led 58-56 mid-way through the second half against NC State before taking control.  Is that a blow-out and control throughout the game?  Obviously not.  Indiana had almost the exact same game as Syracuse - up big in the first half, let the game get really close, and took control late (with an 11 point win).  Indiana barely beat Kentucky, but calling an 11 point win "barely beating" someone is way off.  Last I checked there's no 6 point shot that could have even made this a 2 possession game in the final seconds.




Since: Aug 24, 2006
Posted on: December 20, 2011 12:09 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Parrish and his poll attack.  What a joke.  This guy has an undefeated Indiana team not in his top 20?  They have a 32ppg margin of victory over the cream puffs on their schedule.  12ppg marging of victory of decent programs (Butler, NCSTATE and ND).  And a win against Parrish's #3 team, Kentucky, and although only won by a point, they made Kentucky look like they didn't know what they were doing.

How is IU not in ANYONE's top 20?   Even without the win over Kentucky.  Undefeated after 11 games is extremely tough to do.  They are top 20 with that alone.
How are they not in anyone's top 15? 

They are easily a top 10 team right now.  Havn't seen a good argument from anyone to lead me to believe any different.  Show some respect Parrish.  How do you give Harvard more respect than IU?  

He complains about how people vote.  I look at them too.  Parrish's top 26 is the worst one i have seen.



Since: Dec 7, 2006
Posted on: December 20, 2011 11:11 am
 

The Poll Attacks

@ Sergio, you couldn't be anymore wrong unless you pointed to the sky and said it was red. Did you read the post? It's spot on. Tu and those other knuckleheads didn't get hurt, they gut suspended for because they "zipped em up" as that dolt Tu Holloway put it. Show me one other example where voters didn't punish a team after a loss because they were missing suspended players. As for the trash about TV money and what not, what does any poll have to do with TV money? Where's the correlation? All the TV contracts with networks and conferences has been signed and all that money has changed hands. The Big East and Big 12 will be on every Monday night on the four-letter network no matter who is ranked and who isn't....and the check that the four-letter network wrote out to the Big 12 and Big East to broadcast those games has been cashed long ago. As a matter of fact, you're post should have just said, "The sky is red." It would have made more sense.



Since: Dec 4, 2010
Posted on: December 20, 2011 10:27 am
 

The Poll Attacks

It's all about "brand" name folks.  The voters did not punish Ohio State for losing @ KU w/o Sully or UNC for losing to UNLV AND UK or Duke....but did punish XU w/o Tu et al.  The 'nature' of the XU players should not be a factor in the voting...but that is asking too much.  As in football, the voters will punish teams they dislike (ie Boise St) and reward teams they do like (ie Michigan) as soon as the opportunity avails itself.  Good article Parrish, but let's not pull punches.  It's all about the Super Conferences and TV $$$$.   


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