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Blog Entry

The Poll Attacks

Posted on: December 19, 2011 3:42 pm
Edited on: December 19, 2011 3:46 pm
 
By Gary Parrish

UNLV should be ranked ahead of Illinois.

Only six Associated Press voters don't understand this.

But hopefully those six will learn their lesson in this week's Poll Attacks.

Associated Press poll: Leaving UNLV off your ballot is wrong.

Leaving UNLV off your ballot that includes Illinois?

That's way wrong.

But six AP voters -- Bill Cole, Elton Alexander, Pete Glibert, Roger Clarkson, Ron Morris and Rod Beard -- managed to do exactly that this week, and so now they find themselves in the middle of the Poll Attacks. Merry Christmas, fellas. Did you see what UNLV did to Illinois on Saturday in Chicago? The Rebels won 64-48. And, no, head-to-head matchups aren't the deciding factor on everything. They can't be. But UNLV doesn't only have that 16-point victory over the Illini in Illinois, the Rebels also have a better overall body of work.

UNLV has wins over No. 5 North Carolina and No. 25 Illinois, and the Rebels' only losses are at No. 13 Wisconsin and at Wichita State, which is receiving votes in the AP poll.  Meantime, Illinois has zero wins over schools currently ranked. So UNLV has better wins than Illinois, no real bad losses and -- don't forget this -- a dominant win over the Illini in Chicago. In my opinion, both schools should be ranked. So I'm not killing Illinois. All I'm saying is that UNLV should also be ranked. And definitely above Illinois. Because ranking Illinois while not ranking UNLV is almost as dumb as Will Barton being an official candidate for an award given annually to the nation's top point guard.

Coaches poll:
Would you drop a team because it lost a game when three players fouled out?

Of course you would.

We all would.

Which is why I have no problem with the coaches dropping Xavier from ninth to 15th in this week's poll even though Tu Holloway, Mark Lyons and Dez Wells did not play in Sunday's home loss to Oral Roberts, because they essentially fouled out of the game before it started via the roles they played in that brawl against Cincinnati. They were all suspended because of their actions. So why shouldn't Xavier pay a price for that?

An injury?

That's nobody's fault.

That's why Ohio State didn't suffer when Jared Sullinger's absence cost the Buckeyes at Kansas.

But Holloway, Lyons and Wells are responsible for putting their team in a bad spot just like when somebody else's starting center picks up two dumb fouls early and puts his team in a bad spot. When that team loses, we don't excuse it and say, "But that team wouldn't have lost if its center would've played smarter." So why should we excuse Xavier's loss and say, "But the Musketeers wouldn't have lost if Holloway, Lyons and Wells would've acted appropriately against Cincinnati?"

Answer: We shouldn't.

So I'm OK with how the coaches handled Xavier.

It's similar to how we handled the Musketeers in the Top 25 (and one).

And I realize this is sort of a reverse Poll Attack, but whatever. I wanted to make that point.
Comments

Since: May 31, 2011
Posted on: December 20, 2011 2:44 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

You have, by the way, made a compelling argument that Baylor shouldn't be in the Top 10.  And I agree.



Since: Aug 24, 2006
Posted on: December 20, 2011 2:43 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Ok, so what 342, 343, 344 or 345.  (just for arguments sake)  still right there with teams in top 10.   WITHOUT their KY win.   Getting my point?

Now, I don't think that they would drop that far without the KY game.  But even if they did, they are comparable to other teams ranked WAY OVER IU.

Add the KY win, which is really what we are talking about and IU has a better SOS than 2 top 10 teams and yet that is the argument you are using to keep them out of the top 20.

It just doesn't work.   Sorry if that makes you made.   The argument has NO MERIT.  On multiple levels.   I continue to think Parrish is under-rating IU by a significant margin at this point.



Since: May 31, 2011
Posted on: December 20, 2011 2:40 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

A few other things to keep in mind...

When IU fans are the only ones screaming about IU not being ranked higher, you might have to think you're looking at things from a somewhat biased position. 

I don't really nned to defend IU not being ranked in the top 15.  The FACT is they AREN'T ranked in the top 15.  And so far, I've yet to find an IU fan (or anyone else for that matter) that has made a compelling argument for them to be ranked higher than they currently are.

 



Since: May 31, 2011
Posted on: December 20, 2011 2:34 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Now show me that IU's SOS would be worse  than 341 without KY?  
Well, if their SoS after 11 games including UK is 320...

320*11=3520

Take UK out of the mix (1 team ranked#2)

3520-2=3518

Average for 10 teams now...

3518/10=351.8 Wow!  It's actually WORSE than I thought.

Now I don't think Jeff is using a simple average to calculate SoS, but you can damn sure bet when you take a team out of the equation that is about 15 standard deviations from the rest of your data it is going to have a pretty significant impact on your average (however its calculated)

If you're averaging 320 including the #2 team in the rankings, I think it's pretty reasonable to think it would drop lower than 341 without that game included.   



Since: Jan 27, 2010
Posted on: December 20, 2011 2:34 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

I wouldn't actually be screaming about the NC ST win. NC ST most likely won't be in the NCAA tournament
and for a number ranked team playing on the road that place has very quite and small fan base.
Don't get confused they don't count as much as the other two schools in that area.



Since: Aug 24, 2006
Posted on: December 20, 2011 2:33 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

You're right.  You win.  I'll notify the AP and Coaches to adjust their rankings accordingly.  I'm sure the new results will be posted within 24 hours.

I guess it was that small-school, west-coast, new-guy media bias that is keeping IU down.  Not their dreadful 1 quality win resume.  


Do you compare the teams in the top 25 or just look at SOS.  I don't think IU is the number 1 team in the nation(that was said in jest).  I simply have COMPARED the body of work to other in the top 15 and feel IU should be ranked higher.  I think #10.   LIKE I SAID comparing the ENTIRE BODY OF WORK to OTHERS IN THE TOP 15.

You come back with SOS argument (in a rating system you don't agree with),  thats it.  I then compared the SOS with OTHERS in the top 15 and well, SOS argument obviously carries little to no wieght  WHEN YOU COMPARE.  Get it?

Sorry you got all butt hurt when you were proven wrong, but thats how it is.

Oh, and its obvious after reading your comments and mine (especially the one quoted above) who is the smarta...



Since: May 31, 2011
Posted on: December 20, 2011 2:23 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

You're right.  You win.  I'll notify the AP and Coaches to adjust their rankings accordingly.  I'm sure the new results will be posted within 24 hours.

I guess it was that small-school, west-coast, new-guy media bias that is keeping IU down.  Not their dreadful 1 quality win resume.   



Since: Aug 24, 2006
Posted on: December 20, 2011 2:21 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

 For the sake of discussion take away the UK game and IU has arguably played the worst schedule so far of any team in Division 1



Look trollymctroller, Baylor and Missouri are ranked at the bottom, 325 and 341 out of 345.  Top ten teams with "arguably" the worst schedule so far of any team in Division 1.   

Now show me that IU's SOS would be worse  than 341 without KY?  

Try paying attention to what you write.  I have made no false statements and you are the one shooting your mout off.

I like the smarta55 comment.  I obviously got to you : )



Since: Aug 24, 2006
Posted on: December 20, 2011 2:13 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Just continue to look at wins and losses and ignore everything else there is that doesn't back up your opinion. 


Um, yah... I didn't mention margin of victory or compare the other teams ranked above IU.    I just said IU is undefeated.  They should be number 1.  No team has come close to beating IU.  only 1 team has come within double digits and that team is 3rd in Parrish's ranking.

When there is an argument with merit, I will listen... Your SOS reasoning is based off a rating system that you deny and simply has no merit.   You contradict yourself.  I don't even have to look for the flaw.

And for arguments sake, take away the Kentucky game and IU is right there with some of the other top 10 teams in SOS using the rating you pointed out.  JUST LIKE I SAID.




Since: May 31, 2011
Posted on: December 20, 2011 2:08 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Sorry if a little thing like a parnethetical phrase was too much for your brain to handle.  I'll try to use shorter sentences and smaller words when addressing you in the future.


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