Blog Entry

How would Seattle fare as a hockey market?

Posted on: February 16, 2012 11:32 am
Edited on: February 16, 2012 3:29 pm
An old Seattle Thunderbirds sweater. (

By Brian Stubits

With the news coming out of a plan in the works to build a new, state-of-the-art arena in Seattle, the conversation that was just talking for talking's sake about the NHL in Seattle has become a lot more real. All of a sudden it looks like an NHL-viable city.

I get the sense from reading my Twitter timeline, talking to other media members and seeing fan comments that the majority of people are excited about hockey moving to Seattle, that it'd be a fantastic place for the NHL.

However there are skeptics. The hockey community seems excited at the idea of Seattle having a team, but is Seattle excited? The apple of its eye with the new arena is getting the NBA's SuperSonics back. That's priority Nos. 1, 2 and 3.

While the man talking about building the new arena, Seattle native Chris Hansen, is focused on the NBA and has reportedly not talked to the NHL at all, that doesn't mean there isn't other interested parties who would like to work together. There's interest elsewhere according to Chris Daniels of King TV in Seattle.

So the question remains: Would Seattle be a good hockey market? 

Before I go any further I must disclose that I call the Puget Sound area home. I grew up 30 miles south of Seattle in Tacoma and know the region's sports passions and teams. I grew up a fan of the Mariners, Seahawks and Sonics.

With that out of the way, back to our regularly scheduled reading program.

The Puget Sound area, despite its proximity to Canada, is not a hockey hotbed. Although Seattle does have the distinction of being the first American city to hoist the Stanley Cup when the Seattle Metropolitans did it in 1917, it has never been home to an NHL franchise. It came close during the expansion era of the early 1990s, but obviously that didn't happen.

What it does have, though, is an appetite for hockey. Seattle has long had the Thunderbirds of the Western Hockey League. Tacoma has seen a couple of teams come through over the years in the WHL's Rockets and the Sabercats of the WCHL, which folded operations. Everett, to the north of Seattle, has a nice new arena that's home to the WHL's Silvertips.

Let's start with them, shall we? In the 2010-11 season, the Thunderbirds -- who now play in the suburb of Kent instead of Key Arena in Seattle -- averaged 4,096 fans per night. The Silvertips a short ways north of the city averaged 5,807 fans per game. That's a combined nearly 10,000 patrons per game for the local junior teams, assuming there's little to no overlap. That's not a bad start, especially for junior hockey, which isn't going to draw as much interest as the NHL.

Furthering the already established hockey presence in the Puget Sound area, Chris Peters of United States of Hockey mentions that the state of Washington already has a pretty strong rec hockey presence, and that's without any NHL roots. Plus, it's the 12th biggest media market in the USA.

Also, the state of Washington has more of an established hockey culture than most of the Sunbelt states the NHL expanded to in the 1990s. A lot of that is thanks to hockey’s nationwide growth in popularity over the last decade. So timing may also be in Seattle and the NHL’s favor in terms of projecting success.

There are nearly 8,000 USA Hockey registered hockey players (PDF) in Washington. It’s not a huge hockey-playing population, but it has consistently grown over the last 20 years. Since 1991, Washington’s USA Hockey player membership has grown by 234.1 percent. There has been a particular spike in growth at the 8 & Under age levels in the last five years, which mirrors what’s been happening across the country.

While the Silvertips are still new to the scene having really only Peter Mueller to speak of from the alumni list, the Thunderbirds do have some notable alumni who have gone on to the NHL. Chief among that group is San Jose Sharks forward Patrick Marleau, drafted out of Seattle with the No. 2 overall pick in 1997. He still has some impressions of playing in Seattle.

"Oh I loved it there," Marleau told with a smile overtaking his face. "I think they'd probably grasp it, take it and run with it. I think they have some great fans there."

But what kind of market would it be for the NHL?

"You never really know until it happens but I think there's definitely a market there," Marleau said. "There's definitely a lot of hockey that goes on there, minor-league hockey. A lot of teams close to the Canadian border too. Everything looks like it would work."

We've seen it in action and on a one-time basis recently and that worked out well. Prior to the 2009-10 season, the Coyotes and Tampa Bay Lightning played an exhibition game in Everett. The arena was packed with 7,281 fans excited to see NHL hockey.

Fans take in the Coyotes and Lightning in 2009 in Everett.

Everett GM Doug Soetaert -- a former member of the New York Rangers -- has little doubt hockey's top level would go over as smooth as freshly zambonied ice in the arena.

"In the right location, in a brand-new building, it would go very well," Soetaert told the Seattle Times in 2009.

There are some hockey fans on the Sound's south side. I attended a lot of games at the Tacoma Dome watching the Sabercats, that's where I fell in love with hockey. My dad and I would always just walk up and buy tickets to the game and walk in, no problem.

I remember one day in 1998 that was a lot more difficult than normal when the lines outside the arena were into the parking lot. That night more than 14,000 fans were in attendance for live hockey in the Puget Sound area. Minor professional hockey. I didn't enjoy my normal seats a couple rows up from the ice being relocated to the upper deck, but it was an experience. And a sign, I thought, that hockey fans do exist.

At their peak the Sabercats averaged 4,878 fans per game but the numbers did dwindle down to below 3,000 and the team folded before some of their WCHL brethren joined the ECHL (for those who are curious, the Idaho Steelheads, Alaska Aces and Bakersfield Condors were the survivors).

In general, Seattle is a good sports town. Not a great one, but a good one. It has taken soccer and run with it, just check out a Seattle Sounders game on TV. You'll think it's an English Premier League game until you watch a couple seconds of the on-pitch action.

I know a lot of people who swore off the NBA when the Sonics left town. They began hoping for a hockey team to take hold of. Some say they'll never go back to the NBA if Stern is still around, that's how deep the hatred was over the loss of the Sonics. No matter the reason, hockey has a chance to be a rebound. Some fans are just sitting in the unmanned crease waiting for the push.

Even still, hockey would be down the list of Seattle sports. It's possible it could be the sixth or seventh most popular ticket in town with the Mariners, Seahawks, Sonics 2.0, Sounders and University of Washington's football and basketball teams.

In reality, though, I don't think that means it couldn't work. There are few if any cities in the USA where the hockey team is the most popular. It doesn't mean it's not a good market for hockey. For example: the Red Sox, Patriots and arguably Celtics are all bigger than the Bruins in Boston. But would anybody even think of saying Boston isn't a good hockey market?

As Marleau said, we'll never know how well it would take to NHL hockey unless it happens and we can see it in action.

There are probably more hoping Seattle gets a team outside of the region than in it, particularly on the left coast.

"It'd be nice to have another West Coast team," Marleau pointed out. I bet the people of Seattle would agree.

As for what to call a team in Seattle? Join the converstaion on Facebook to check out some ideas.

More from Eye on Hockey

Seattle to unveil new arena plans
Daly: Group interested in NHL in Seattle

For more hockey news, rumors and analysis, follow @EyeOnHockey and @BrianStubitsNHL on Twitter.


Since: Oct 8, 2006
Posted on: February 17, 2012 8:00 am

How would Seattle fare as a hockey market?


Since: Feb 5, 2007
Posted on: February 17, 2012 7:56 am

How would Seattle fare as a hockey market?

As a Blackhawks fan I would love a team in Seattle.  They should have never gotten rid of the NBA from there.  I realize business is business, but There would already be some instant rivalries.  Seattle-Vancouver.  Seattle and LA as well I could see budding into a rivalry.  This would be awesome.  

Since: Oct 13, 2006
Posted on: February 17, 2012 5:36 am

How would Seattle fare as a hockey market?

Heard mention of this a couple of months back, and at the time I thought it was a joke. I'm a Washington resident, but orignally from Detroit so my loyalties lay with the wings, with that said I don't feel the same vibe for hockey here in the NW as I do from fans in the Midwest and East. Of course those are hockey hotbeds, but mabey it's the strong influx of Californians that have migrated here (no offense) that gives me that feeling of an indifferent apathetic support.
I go to a few sports bars around the area, and when I go during May/June there just isn't any interest in hockey. What should be the most exciting time of the year for most hockey fans, here in the NW, you have to ask to get a game put on, and then it's one of the smaller screens off in the corner some where. 
Also the fan base seems rather fickle in general - I don't feel the same fervor in the fan base over the Mariniers, although they have fallen on hard times of late, but even when they were competitive the additude felt like impending doom rather than hyped enthusiasm. The Seahawks though seem to have a strong following, although getting a few tickets to a game on game day isn't a stretch, where in other cities it can be damn near impossible.
Looking at the demographics isn't enough; the 14th largest television market may hold some prospect, but the fans will have to have a winner within two to three years in order to create intrest from the casual fan, because I don't believe there are enough hard core fans to support a NHL team more than a couple of years if they aren't winning.  Although, if by some crazy happenstance a NHL team does make it to Seattle - I'll probably get season tickets. 

Since: Sep 28, 2011
Posted on: February 16, 2012 11:15 pm
This comment has been removed.

Post Deleted by Administrator

Since: Mar 10, 2008
Posted on: February 16, 2012 10:27 pm

How would Seattle fare as a hockey market?

The NHL moving to Seattle would be the best idea that Gary Bettman ever had. Which is not up against very much competition.    ??????????? Why are you triing to give me a hurnia from laughing to hard. Best buttman comment i ever heard..

Since: Mar 10, 2008
Posted on: February 16, 2012 10:24 pm

How would Seattle fare as a hockey market?

No don't do it!  The last time Seattle played for the Stanelycup the flu killed a Monreal player and  the game had to be callled off.  Not a good omen.

Since: May 4, 2011
Posted on: February 16, 2012 9:43 pm

How would Seattle fare as a hockey market?

All of the divisions are being realigned next with Winipeg moving north. Teams are moving east and west and the playoff format is changing.  Go do some reading. :)

Since: May 4, 2011
Posted on: February 16, 2012 9:40 pm

How would Seattle fare as a hockey market?

Putting another NHL team into another non-hockey Amreican market is just a stupid idea.

Since: May 4, 2011
Posted on: February 16, 2012 9:36 pm

How would Seattle fare as a hockey market?

The absolutely most important point that the author missed was the influence that the Vancouver Canucks market will have on Seattle's success.  For starters; Ask the Buffalo Sabres where they would be without Canadian support.  The Vancouver Canucks travel more miles than any other team in the NHL.  They would LOVE a team in Seattle.  And as a Vancouverite who has spent many incredible weekends in Seattle, the Vancouver fans would too.

In the late 70s and early 80s when the North American Soccer League was operating in both cities, there would be FORTY busses of Whitecaps supporters that would make the trip to Seattle for a road game and head back the next day. And that was when soccer had no where near the support that it has today.  The NHL moving to Seattle would be the best idea that Gary Bettman ever had.  Which is not up against very much competition.

Since: Mar 2, 2008
Posted on: February 16, 2012 8:42 pm

How would Seattle fare as a hockey market?

Tampa Bay has a low cost ticket or free tickets altogether, if you do not wish to acknowledge economic the disparity in ticket value that is your problem.  A ticket in New York, Detroit or Chicago costs a good penny.  Tampa Bay, hells no!!!

Attendance is not as big a deal as you make it out to be, with low to no costs tickets hardly ever profitting the Lightning organizations of the past and present.  It is one thing to throw the attendance card when the team rarely even makes a profit, when comparing it to those Northen cities which actual give that organization cash in the now profit sharing NHL.

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