Blog Entry

Brodeur: All-time Great but Overrated Since 2003

Posted on: May 31, 2012 4:35 am
One of the great things about this site is that you can find some good comedy on it from time to time. Of course this occurs when people post without thinking much beforehand about it and make fools out of themselves. We have all been guilty of this from time to time- including myself.

Today though, I will focus on the efforts of fellow member Beer is Good 77, who came up with an articulate, well thought out, rebuttal to a post I gave on the Stanley Cup Final Preview thread.

I was actually more complimentary of Martin Brodeur than the author of the blog was. You can see my comment here.

Cerveza I think took umbrage with my comment that I admitted that Brodeur hasn't accomplished squat since Nieds and Stevens left him. I'll let you decide for yourself, but look at his cogent well thought out rebuttal entitled "What Did You Say Toolbox?" here. It's always nice to know that you rate a special title from the writer! It's actually three entries after my aforementioned comment.

Now regarding my statement of accomplishing squat. I STAND BY IT.

Now, I will also say (I was silent in my original post), that Brodeur is clearly one of the ATG's, and is a first ballot HOFer. He's certainly one of the top 5 G's of the last 30 years (I have him at #4, but that is admittedly a matter of taste) and is even the second best G to come from Quebec during that era- which has produced some great G's to say the least.

For me accomplishment is defined by the post-season. You can have excellence in the regular season, but the post-season is where it's at. I think most of us, and most athletes in team sports, would think the same thing.

Cerveza brings up multiple 40 win seasons, shutouts, and two Vezina Trophies. I say "regular season". That's what all of these awards are for.

I can say that two Vezinas is noteworthy, b/c it's decided by the GM's and not the press. However, they typically have an East Coast bias b/c that award has only been given 4 times in the last 30 years to a G from the West even though the statistically decided Jennings has been won 11 times in the same period by the West (not counting STL winning this year).

Nieds and Stevens started with the Brodeur Devils in 1993-94. Nieds left after the 2004 playoffs and Stevens left before the 2004 playoffs started. I'm using 2003 as the pre-post cutoff, primarily b/c of the post-season impact (or lack thereof) by Stevens. The #'s below change a bit if the cutoff is a year later, but my conclusions (and I suspect those of others) don't change.

With the Big Two: 2.18 GAA, .912 Save Pct
(38777 minutes, 15950 shots, 1409 goals)
Post the Big Two: 2.27 GAA, .922 Save Pct
(27681 minutes, 12408 shots, 1048 goals)

Not too much of a dropoff here- if any at all. I pay attention to the post-season though for accomplishment (as opposed to excellence).

With the Big Two: 1.83 GAA, .922 Save Pct
(8670 minutes, 3376 shots, 264 goals)
Post the Big Two: 2.57 GAA, .912 Save Pct
(2546 minutes, 1238 shots, 109 goals)

Being with Nieds and Stevens is what has made Brodeur one of the true all-time greats. However, note the obvious dropoff in efficiency after they left.

Let's see if that translates into post-season failure.

With the Big Two: 18 Wins, 6 Losses, THREE Stanley Cups
Post the Big Two: 2 Wins, 6 Losses, ZERO Stanley Cups

They advanced to the second round twice. Period.

Furthermore, NJ seeds in the six "Post" years were #6, #3, #2, #4, #3, #2. They should have won SEVEN series if they played to their seed. Instead they won TWO including dropping home ice the last four times before this year.

This is hardly the stuff of legends I'm afraid. Evgeny Nabokov has won seven series over the same time period; Dwayne Roloson five. Antti Niemi and Cam Ward have won as many as Marty before this year.

Then there is the inconvenient truth of his ineffectiveness in the Olympics in 2006 and 2010. In 2002, he was lights out as he replaced Cujo and played a key role in bringing Canada the gold. 2006? Seventh place in Turin. 2010? Knocked out of the starting job after the US blitzed him in the round robin. Luongo took Brodeur's place (much like Brodeur took Cujo's place) and led Canada to the gold.

If you want to trumpet regular season laurels as a sign of greatness go ahead. I'm not buying. Two post season series wins in a seven season span is pretty average. A random draw should get any team 1.87 series wins over the same period.

Now, this year, Marty is looking better than he has since the Big Two left.

But I already acknowledged that before this blog.

In the meantime, I guess I'll just has to be satisfied with being a know nothing LA fan.

Category: NHL

Since: Mar 26, 2011
Posted on: June 19, 2012 12:31 am

Brodeur: All-time Great but Overrated Since 2003

Nice of you stop by Kiwi. I will disagree with the club being overrated in that period though. If you look at their seedings in those playoff appearances (not including this year), they consistently got eliminated too early for their seed.

Since: Aug 7, 2011
Posted on: June 14, 2012 7:00 am

Brodeur: All-time Great but Overrated Since 2003

You're right, Brodeur is a great Goaltender and a surefire HoF, first ballot of course, and that he's been overrated. But overall, the Devils were overrated from 2003-2008. Until this year, where the Devils weren't picked at all to come close to the SCF, the Devils were always brought up as a team to watch or a sleeper pick

But, Brodeur played to his potential in the playoffs this year. Was outstanding in clutch positions, but in the end, only just beaten. 

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