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Alpha Blog: Bloody hell, they moved The Island

Posted on: May 30, 2008 11:56 am
Edited on: May 30, 2008 5:14 pm
 

Let's start with the end, rather, the future.

Locke looks quite waxy. A deceased-in-the-future John Locke went by the pseudonym Jeremy Bentham (another 18th century philosopher, more on him later) and paid a visit to the Oceanic 6.

Let's get Desmond's analysis: "Bloody hell."

Jack is still in pill-popping-'70s-throwback-adorned mode and searching for The Island.

Desmond, care to chime in? "Bloody Hell."

Kate is still in I'm-Aaron's-mom mode, but having Claire pop up in her dreams with messages like, "don't you dare bring him back!" Him? Hmmm. Him as in Aaron him? Him as in half-brother Jack him? Him as in Ben him? Or maybe him as in Jeremy Bentham-Locke him?

The phone call to Kate?  When played backwards, the message states: "The Island needs you. You have to go back before it's too late."

Desmond, your thoughts? "Bloody hell."

Hurley is playing chess with Mr. Eko, Sayid is watching Hurley's back while being The Jackal and Walt is mad none of the Oceanic 6 Walt speaks. stopped by to say hi and that they're all lying. The way Walt's growing, Billy Gillispie may be calling soon.

Sun blames Jack (along with her father) for the death of her husband. She's also dropping her card in the palm of Charles Widmore's hand. Could she be after Ben? The Island? Her father who's been known to play golf with Widmore?

Penny, can I borrow Des for a second? Des? "Bloody hell."

At the Orchid Station, Jack and Sawyer recover Hurley, but not before a Jack-John talk. John tells Jack, "If you leave this Island, that knowledge will eat you alive from the inside out, until you decide to come back." John also tells Jack, "It's not an Island. It's a place where miracles happen. If you don't believe that, just wait until you see what I'm about to do."

Jack responds like Jack always does: "There's no such thing as miracles."

Locke retorts: "We'll just have to see which one of us is right," followed with a "lie to them Jack. If you do it half as well as you do to yourself, they'll believe you."

Zing!

Desmond, you still in this lifetime? "Bloody hell."

BTW: I absolutely loved the scene when Ben returns to the Orchid and sees Locke sort of aimlessly walking around because Locke didn't know what anthuriums looked like. I thought the same thing when Ben uttered this line two weeks ago:

"You're going to go into that greenhouse through that hole there. Once inside, you're going to turn left. Go about 20 paces until you see a patch of anthuriums on your left. They're in an alcove against the north wall. Face that wall, reach down with your left hand, you'll find a switch that activates the elevator. The elevator takes you down to the actual Orchid station."

Wait, Ben? What do, uh, anthuriums look like again? Ben, don't leave!

I love that they didn't give Locke all-knowing horticultural knowledge on top of his array of Island powers.The Donkey Wheel

Below the Orchid Station Ben tells Locke to watch another orientation movie. The movie (couldn't somebody in Othersland take a Saturday and transfer these to DVD?) featuring Doc Halliwax says something like, "don't fill The Vault, where space-time travel occurs, with metal objects." Ben fills it with lots of metal objects. Keamy, still alive after a hostiles-onslaught, makes his way to the undergound station. Locke tries to reason with him, but Ben (still mad about the death of his adopted daughter) uses the opportunity to stab Keamy to death. Locke tells Ben, "You just killed everyone that freighter." Ben tells Locke, "so?" 

Way below the Orchid Station, Halliwax-parka-clad (the same one from The Shape of Things to Come) Ben crawls through a tunnel that leads him to a frigid ancient cave with a giant wooden "donkey" wheel. Ben turns the wheel and wouldn't ya know, there goes The Island.

How's that Scottish Army bomb training doing for you, Desmond? "Bloody hell."

On the freighter Michael, Jin, Desmond, Murtaugh and Riggs try to defuse the C4 bomb while Lapidus and the chopper crew return. The chopper, draining fuel, after the merc-hostiles gunfight left it porous thanks to bullet holes, needs to drop weight in order to make it to the Sawyer goes splashticking time bomb. Sawyer, realizing his 215-or-so-LBs would be better off in the ocean than on the whirly bird plunges into the drink. But not before he whispers something into Kate's ear (maybe about his daughter Clementine?) and gives her a smooch. Hurley spots the freighter and the heli heads for it. Desmond sees the bird coming on to the explosive-laced freighter and says ...

... "bloody hell."

The freighter explodes, but not before Christian Shephard tells Michael, "you can go now" and Sun sees Jin possibly perish. What about Scott!? Or was it Steve?

You can go now. Back to The Island (yes, I'm breaking all sorts of continuity rules). Richard Alpert, Sayid and Kate join forces to take down the mercs. In return for their help, Alpert and Ben send Sayid and Kate on their merry ways off The Island. Why is the Alpert Crew so well armed?  How are they so good at killing mercs? Why didn't they intervene and help Sayid take down Keamy from the get-go? I'm guessing they enjoyed watching two trained fighters go blow for blow like I did. Apparently Alpert's gang now considers Locke their leader, saying things like, "welcome home" and sharing all the knowledge they know about The Island. Like the smoke monster? Like why people don't age? Like why people heal so well? Like there's a friggin' time-traveling device on this rock?! Like....?!

Brother, can you spare two words? "Bloody hell."

On the beach Rose berates I'm-staying-here Miles for eating peanuts. Charlotte tells Farraday she's "still looking for the place she was born," which I have no idea how to interpret at this stage. Was she born on The Island? Is she Widmore kin? An orphan destined to one day lead the Hostiles? Some time-traveling aberration? Thoughts?

On the Searcher (Penelope's boat), Desmond reunites with Penny and tells her something like, "I'll never leave you again." Hmm, I have a feeling he does. Jack works the lie into everybody's head space and they complete their fabricated journey back home.

There goes The IslandThere's more to the episode I'll leave for the boards. But let's talk about Jeremy Bentham.  He was a philosopher hell-bent on promoting utilitarianism. The philosophy, at its core, involves maximizing happiness for the most and that the worth of an action is determined by its outcome—the ends justify the means. Bentham was highly progressive for his time, introducing the panopticon method of criminal reform and when he died, had his body preserved and stored in a wooden box that still attends University College London meetings on occasion. However, his head was badly damaged during preservation and instead, Bentham's body has a wax head. I've never been to an open-casket funeral, but Locke's head looked pretty waxy.

So why was Locke mingling in civilization trying to get the Oceanic 6 back to The Island? What was Christian doing on the freighter? What's Sun's arrangement with Widmore going to entail? Where is The Island? Is Jack the only one who wants (needs?) to go back? Why is Walt traveling cross-country to berate Hurley? Which other dead people visit Hurley? What did Sawyer tell Kate? Is Jin dead? Is...

Let's chat.


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Comments

Since: Dec 20, 2007
Posted on: June 21, 2008 2:33 am
 

Alpha Blog: Bloody hell, they moved The Island

I know I'm really late getting to this message board, but I live in China and I had to wait until the pirated DVD hit the streets before I could get caught up with season 4 (if you live outside the US you can't watch season 4 online yet).  Now that I've finished my marathon watching session (which my girlfriend thought I was either really crazy or lazy for doing) I'm ready to through in my two cents.

1. The Hurley/"Jacob" situation:  Lets not forget Hurley has also seen someone/something.  When he found the cabin on accident (of coarse nothing happens by accident on this island) he looked in the window and saw two figures inside.  Is Hurley becoming the local psychic, since he now "seeing" Mr. Ekco, Charlie (these two being future Hurley),  and "Jacob"

2.I think Jin is alive.  When Sun is giving birth to the baby Jin is buying the Panda to give to her.  Since Jin is "dead" according to the story the Oceanic 6 is telling obviously Jin can't be with Sun during the birth (i know earlier on this board there was speculation that this was a flashback of Jin, but I have a feeling it was a flashfoward, I just don't see Jin getting killed off that easily).

3. Who is in charge of the island?  If Locke/Bentham is dead, and Ben has been banished, then who is now leading/telling people what to do?  Sawyer would seem like a the natural choice (only because he is most important character still on the island) but Sawyer has never wanted a leadership/caretaker role, he only looks after himself.

I have some other thoughts but I will wait to see if anyone is still reading this blog post before writting more




Since: May 30, 2008
Posted on: June 5, 2008 4:05 pm
 

Alpha Blog: Bloody hell, they moved The Island

I'd like to think the writers are reading all these blogs, and filling in gaps in the story line to fit with the prevailing thoughts of fans.At this point the story is almost completely being written from the review of Blogs and Fan websites. They really are saving quite a bit of the normal expense for writers. Bloody Hell.



Since: May 27, 2008
Posted on: June 5, 2008 1:03 pm
 

Alpha Blog: Bloody hell, they moved The Island

"Perhaps Jacob is what the island was to Ben.  Maybe it'll be something else to Locke (after all, he saw Doc and his daughter instead of Jacob)."

There's definitely a reason Christian Shepherd keeps appearing on the island. It makes sense to appear to his children, but now Locke and Michael have seen him, and I'm guessing Sawyer will get a vision soon, too, given the prophetic bar chat the two had in season two. He's gone from simply appearing to Jack, to a more authoritarian role for the island, offering advice to Locke and Michael. I think everyone expected Jacob to be in the cabin when Locke walked in, so why was it Christian sitting there instead? Does he have a larger purpose, even a facet of whatever this "jacob" idea is, or was it just to throw the viewers. The next appearance, offering comfort to Michael, tells me it's the former. He is the sire of this Aaron character, who better have some meaningful role by the end of the series. Yet, he's still appearing to Jack in the future. Is he the one telling Jack to come back? Could that relate to Claire's warning of 'don't you dare bring him back?' She knows her Dad is up to something and doesn't like it? Why is it that every time we hear about a character's back story that have a bad father??

"I think the look was more of a "if I told you, you wouldn't believe me" look. Or maybe a "the writers aren't sure how to get us out of this storyline yet" look."

I'd like to think the writers are reading all these blogs, and filling in gaps in the story line to fit with the prevailing thoughts of fans.




Since: Mar 9, 2007
Posted on: June 4, 2008 6:13 pm
 

Alpha Blog: Bloody hell, they moved The Island

Faraday is going to answer some of the questions about the time distortion bubble around the Island as he wasn't amazed by the clock difference on the missle from the ship and he provided the coordinates to and from the ship. When questioned about time he gives us that look that says "well if I told you that would being saying something" Bloody Hell!

I think the look was more of a "if I told you, you wouldn't believe me" look. Or maybe a "the writers aren't sure how to get us out of this storyline yet" look.



Since: May 30, 2008
Posted on: June 4, 2008 5:45 pm
 

Alpha Blog: Bloody hell, they moved The Island

Alpha Blog: Bloody hell, they moved The Island

I'm not sure Faraday went with the Island as he is going to have to get in contact with Desmond at some point as his "Constant" to stop flipping back and forth (which we haven't seen of him yet, though his journal suggests some). I guess when Ben said everyone has to return he meant Desmond also.

Faraday is going to answer some of the questions about the time distortion bubble around the Island as he wasn't amazed by the clock difference on the missle from the ship and he provided the coordinates to and from the ship. When questioned about time he gives us that look that says "well if I told you that would being saying something" Bloody Hell!

We've only just scratched the surface of Charlotte and Miles may be the best character added from the ship.

 

If Locke's body is brought back to the Island for resurrection, who else is going to jump back to life? Boone, Charlie, Shannon, Ana Lucia, Libby. Bloody Hell

 

Was it all really just a dream?

 

No one's mentioned the group in the zodiac boat. Where are they now that the Island has moved and the ship destroyed. You may remember Desmond was to be Daniel Faraday's constant just as Penny was Desmond's. (We saw that in Faraday's journal)   Bloody Hell.

Bloody hell indeed. I thought about them too. Did they get sucked into The Island? Are they drifting around in the ocean? Did they die? People don't "just die" so I'm guessing Farrady is on The Island, which would mean Miles, Farrady and Charlotte -- the three people intertwined with The Island (Lapidus' tie was to the actual plane, not The Island) -- are still there.

Remember, Miles the ghost whisperer, has connected with The Island. Charlotte, as Miles informs us, has a connection with The Island. And Farraday has a connection with time traveling.

Looking at this further:

Miles sees ghosts. The Island has ghosts (we think) on it. I'm guessing he's going to help explain this phenomenon.

Charlotte doesn't know where she was born. The Island doesn't allow for procreation. I'm guessing she's going to help explain this phenomenon.

Farraday is quietly unlocking the secret to time travel. The Island is the Jackson-Hartsfield hub of time traveling. I'm guessing he's going to help explain this phenomenon.

Sticking with the freighter five and adding Keamy to the mix, Keamy taught us how far Widmore is willing to go by killing Ben's daughter. I'm guessing we're going to find out more about the Ben-Widmore war phenomenon.

Bloody Hell!



Badger_colorado
Since: Jan 24, 2007
Posted on: June 4, 2008 3:35 pm
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Since: Mar 9, 2007
Posted on: June 4, 2008 3:23 pm
 

Alpha Blog: Bloody hell, they moved The Island

I've not thought of Jacob as a living, breathing person.  I've thought of him as something supernatural.  When Ben brought Locke to the cabin, Locke couldn't see Jacob initially (I think he ended up seeing him though, although my memory is fuzzy).  I think Jacob is a physical manifestation of the island or something like that, but not a real person.  In fact, Jacob, the cabin, and the island may all be one and the same.  It seems that only certain people are allowed to see the cabin and possibly Jacob.  Of course, we've already determined that it's only the crazy people.  Of course, it's really hard to determine who's really alive and who's dead so who the heck knows.

That's sort of my point. We can't even define what Jacob is, but we sort of buy into this Island society that supposedly does know what he is. It's just a big jump to conclusion/suspension of disbelief I'm surprised we're so willing to take.

Amsterdam!? You're excused.

I re-watched all three seasons (yes, big nerd) over the past couple months and it's a fantastic waste of time. Be sure to keep an eye on backstories and the people who pop up in multiple ones (Kate's mom, Anna Lucia, Boone, Christian) and pay attention to parallel themes and dualities between characters (father/mother issues, faith/science, redemption/persecution, death/life).


Badger_colorado
Since: Jan 24, 2007
Posted on: June 4, 2008 3:12 pm
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Since: Mar 9, 2007
Posted on: June 4, 2008 2:54 pm
 

Alpha Blog: Bloody hell, they moved The Island

1) I find it interesting, although not surprising, that the islanders have other ways to get to the mainland besides the sub.   The reason that Ben wanted the sub blown was so Jack couldn't get back.  Of course, in this episode, he encourages Jack and the others to get on the copter and go back to the boat.

That's probably not entirely true. While he didn't want Jack leaving, he also confided in Locke that it was a power move. That the sub represented the idea that his people could leave when in fact, he would never let them. So by getting Locke to blow up the sub, Ben got his wish -- his people, who know where The Island is and some of its secrets can now never leave, or at least not leave until Ben comes up with a new way of leaving that doesn't cause anarchy. Remember, this was all on the heals of Ben getting sick on an island where people aren't supposed to get sick. So his leadership abilities were in question.

 He's an incredibly deep character.  On one hand, he can kill a boatload of people without thinking twice.  On the other hand, I can't help but feel he's got noble motives in some sense.  I think he cares about the island above all else.  Although he sometimes inserts his own egomaniac views into how he achieves things that are important for maintaining the island, he is still likely doing them for the island first.  But, he seems to have lost his way and therefore Jacob has decided to replace (and reprimand) him.  Perhaps his mission (besides killing Penny) is his way of proving himself to the island so he can somehow get back.

Take what you're saying and compare it utilitarianism (as in Jeremy Bentham's big thingy). The big U has a notion that the ends always justify the means so long as the ends make the most people happy. Killing the freighter people meant the Island stays under wraps, which keeps the people on The Island happy and hence works under utilitarian (i know we're shortchanging the idea) ideals.

Ben is Benthamy.

Locke is not.

That's why Ben says something like "I'm sure you'll make a better leader than me..." Locke has that compassion element Ben lacks. So Locke going around under the name Bentham may mean he's lost that and morphed into a taller, balder, older Ben figure since becoming the leader of the hostiles/others.

Anybody ever wonder how seriously to take Jacob? I mean we talk like Jacob exists, does things, controls things when in fact we've never been told his identity or if he even exists. I mean, what sort of flesh 'n' blood leader is only seen by a handful of people? I know it could be Christian, but it's just sort of amusing how us grown-up folks are willing to believe in this character despite a complete lack of establishment.

Glad to have you chiming in B_C.


Badger_colorado
Since: Jan 24, 2007
Posted on: June 4, 2008 2:06 pm
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