Blog Entry

My take on the Sox-Rays Brawl

Posted on: June 8, 2008 12:06 am
 

A little late, but I don't care. I'll keep it nice and simple, in numbered points:

  1. Bartlett putting his knee down in front of the bag when Crisp was sliding in head first is a shady play. You do that with the intent of hurting the other player somewhere on his body, and putting the knee down could result in something as small as a jammed finger or as big as a broken collarbone. I've seen both, neither are pretty. Legal, yes, shady, absolutely.
  2. Crisp slid hard into second base into Akinori Iwamura. No matter who it was, Crisp was sliding in hard. Retaliation for what he thought was a shady play, that's fine, I have absolutely no problem with it, and have no problem with a hard slide on either end if it's in retaliation for something.
  3. First at-bat of the game for Crisp, Shields throws at him. Yea, it hit him in the legs, yes, Crisp should've been expecting it, however, this incident could've been put behind us, but Shields instigated it further.
  4. Crisp charged the mound, thus pushing the issue even further. He should not have charged the mound, but he was unable to swallow pride and take his lumps because he felt he was right for what he did, which I believe he was with regards to the hard slide. He was not right for charging the mound.
  5. Shields can't punch. It will never cease to amaze me how many people still throw haymakers. I could just roll off a list of things to do when a haymaker is coming at you, it's just such a stupid move! In all honesty, if I was Crisp, in dodging the roundhouse, left hand would've gone up to block the punch, and the right hand would have went right into Shield's right bicep without hesitation. People that throw haymakers and don't get hurt are stupid and lucky.
  6. Navarro did what he was supposed to do, he got Crisp out of the way and took him down. That was enough for the brawl, what Navarro did was fine.
  7. Johnny Gomes is a punk and a wuss for hitting Crisp while he was being held down.
  8. Carl Crawford is a punk and a wuss for hitting Crisp while he was being held down.
  9. Even Akinori Iwamura took a few cheap shots at Crisp, and therefore, is a punk and a wuss in my book.
  10. Tampa Bay is building a reputation for itself, and not a good one. There is a reason they have been in 2 big brawls already this year (counting the Spring Training ones with the Yankees). You can call the people good teammates all you want, the fact remains that for hitting a man while he's being held down by a bunch of other people makes them sissies and nothing better than a typical street thug. I have lost ALL respect for them. Their performance was PATHETIC.
  11. Everyone that got suspended deserved to get suspended.
  12. This is not the last incident we will see between the Rays and Red Sox, and I would not be in the least bit surprised to see the Rays and another team get into a similar brawl because of the reputation they're building for themselves, especially Gomes and Crawford.

Now, onto the other incident:

People are saying that Youkilis called Manny out for not being in the brawl, and this is just not true for a few reasons.

  1. Camera's show that Manny was right where Crisp crawled out from under 4 Rays, trying to pull the pile apart
  2. If that's what Youk said to Manny, then he's a hypocrite, since in a big brawl you really shouldn't be focused on what someone else is doing and only focused on dealing with the person/people you're dealing with.
  3. There is NO way is a veteran ballplayer and Dominican that grew up in Washington Heights not going to be out there for a brawl.

The more likely thing was that after his at-bat, Youk brought his problems and aggrivation into the dugout, Manny probably told him to calm down, and Youk probably told him to buzz off, and then Manny overreacted. Both would be wrong in that case, but I hope it's in the past.

Category: MLB
Comments

Since: Mar 3, 2007
Posted on: June 9, 2008 1:38 am
 

My take on the Sox-Rays Brawl

 It's nice to see the Red Sox getting some in return.

 Remember the Pedro era from 98-2004 and all the hit batsmen around the league.

 Payback is a bitch.

 Now, while RSN is focusing on the pile and beatdown that Coco rightfully got, did they miss they other pile with 5 or 6 Red Sox players beating down a Devil Rays player? Of course they didn't mention that one.

 Coco basically told the Rays manager before the game don't retaliate against my teammates, retaliate against me. So they did...and then he charges the mound.  IDIOT!!!



Since: Jun 5, 2008
Posted on: June 9, 2008 12:16 am
 

My take on the Sox-Rays Brawl

not a  nice wat to introduce yourself when your new on here , guy.. really, think  about it and retract it before it gets worst... just a point of wisdom so you have an enjoyable time in the future on the boardsJust what I should do. Listen to more Red Sox homers. I read you're post on the boards about the brawl Bucky and it was a complete load of cr*p. Nobody agreed with you're homerism.....Now, I guess you decided to go cling on to Boston "groupy bandwagon fans" by posting your lame argument here.



Since: Jun 5, 2008
Posted on: June 9, 2008 12:10 am
 

My take on the Sox-Rays Brawl

Yea, I just jump ship with whoever's doing better.Well at least you admit it.

But please, keep arguing that it can't happen.(a) It's never happened in MLB
(b) The guy in your game must have slid WAY TOO LATE!! That's the only possible way.

He did not absolutely have to keep his in front of the bag in order to make the play.He was making a play on the ball and the ball was at Bartlett's glove before Crisp was there. It wasn't obstruction. If it was, the umpires would have called it.......If you are saying that this play was obstruction, then every single play at the plate is obstruction as well. Catchers "don't have to" block the plate when the runner comes, but they still do and it's legal as long as the ball reaches their mit before the runner gets there....You're argument is just a bunch of whining about a perfectly legal call.

By the way, nice way to further your argument, by correcting grammer.You thought you were being cool by talking about my literacy, so I thought I correct your "Grammar." (notice the "a" in grammar) But I did further my argument by offering video evidence. Evidence that you simply deny because you are being a "homer."


.....Now it's your turn to keep whining and making lame excuses.



Since: Apr 4, 2008
Posted on: June 8, 2008 10:37 pm
 

My take on the Sox-Rays Brawl

On a scale of 1-10 as far as basebrawls go, I'll give it an 8.  If they weren't so damn entertaining, we'ld change the channel when start rumbling.  I imagine Crisp got the biggest suspension since his charging the mound started it, however, Shields was bound and determined to hit someone.  Advice to Shields....watch footage of Nolan Ryan vs. Robin Ventura.... thats how you handle the charging batter. 

Nice blog bigpapiandmanny    




Since: Aug 12, 2006
Posted on: June 8, 2008 9:34 pm
 

My take on the Sox-Rays Brawl

here are my thoughts on the red sox/rays brawl -- and the inevitable suspensions it resulted in:

1. coco crisp got exactly what he deserved in terms of a somewhat lengthy suspension -- in fact 7 games may have been slightly lenient.

2. johnny gomes + carl crawford should have been suspended at least 10 games for their actions -- they were clearly trying to injure coco crisp + the fact that james shields threw at dustin pedroria before he threw at coco crisp seems to imply that the rays were looking to start a big brawl at fenway.

3. james shields should have been suspended at least 15 games for admittedly throwing at coco crisp + dustin pedroria earlier in the game.

4. considering that jon lester was neither ejected nor directly involved in the brawl his somewhat lengthy 5 game suspension strikes me as very shady + suspicious -- ESP considering that bob watson (someone who once worked in the yankees front office) was handing out the penalties for the red sox/rays brawl. yes jon lester did graze akinori iwamura's jersey in the 7th inning -- but he wasnt ejected + it didnt spark another brawl (perhaps a fine at most wouldve been more appropriate).

5. no suspension/fine/penalty for joe maddon??



Since: Aug 24, 2006
Posted on: June 8, 2008 6:46 pm
 

My take on the Sox-Rays Brawl

Thanks for the defense Bucky, and the heads up on the obstruction rule! Hey, how come Erik Bedard only pitches well against the Red Sox?



Since: Aug 13, 2006
Posted on: June 8, 2008 6:43 pm
 

My take on the Sox-Rays Brawl

Being a fan since you are ten? I thought you were a self-proclaimed Mets fan?....So which is it, Mets or Red Sox?...lol.......Maybe whoever is playing the best?

I think it's hilarious that a newbie poster comes on the baord and doubts bigpapi's loyalty , LOL

papi's  posts reveal, that he's a diehard fan of both and his knowledge of them and passion he shows towards them shows .... not a  nice wat to introduce yourself when your new on here , guy.. really, think  about it and retract it before it gets worst... just a point of wisdom so you have an enjoyable time in the future on the boards




Since: Aug 24, 2006
Posted on: June 8, 2008 6:27 pm
 

My take on the Sox-Rays Brawl

ball gets to the third baseman before he does, third baseman blocks the bag with his kneeShould be second baseman. My mistake.



Since: Aug 13, 2006
Posted on: June 8, 2008 6:27 pm
 

My take on the Sox-Rays Brawl

He also had his knee blocking the bag before the ball got there, which goes against the Obstruction ruling that "not in the act of fielding impedes the progress of any runner" and "must occupy his position to receive the ball".

exactly what I've been saying all along

and for the poster(s) that thinks otherwise:

"What would be the reason for a player to stick his leg in front of the bag, KNEE ALSO, other than to be palin out dumb? or better yet, to have all intention of making a bogus dirty move

pick door (A) or door(B), please/... love to hear your reasoning why Bartlett committed such a move




Since: Aug 24, 2006
Posted on: June 8, 2008 6:02 pm
 

My take on the Sox-Rays Brawl

Being a fan since you are ten? I thought you were a self-proclaimed Mets fan?....So which is it, Mets or Red Sox?...lol.......Maybe whoever is playing the best? It must be embarrassing to root for the Mets right now, so I can see why you like to jump ship.

Yea, that's exactly what it is, good call. Don't let facts get in your way or anything, since I've only said a million times I followed the Red Sox as my AL team because Nomar used to be my favorite player as a kid, and the Mets in the NL because everyone in my family likes them. Yea, I just jump ship with whoever's doing better. It's very intelligent of you to question another person's fan loyalty when you don't even know them, and I find that especially ironic since you don't even have your teams listed in your profile.

Give me an example where this has happened with a guy sliding into 2nd.....It hasn't.

It happen in a baseball game I was playing in. Guy is running to second base, ball gets to the third baseman before he does, third baseman blocks the bag with his knee, runner slides head first, arms extended, his arms go on either side of his knee, and his collarbone drives right into his knee. It was shattered, he could barely move he was in so much pain.

But please, keep arguing that it can't happen.

Watch the replay. Pause it right when the timer turns to 5 seconds. Bartlett has the ball touch his glove before Crisp is even at the bag. Bartlett doesn't hold on to the ball, but it WASN'T obstruction. Catchers do this all the time. Here's a link for you so you can watch it.

http://fenwaywest.blogspot.com/2008

/06/coco-injures-thumb-on-shady-pla

y-gets.html

Watch the 2nd video on that page.

That video proves my point. He did not absolutely have to keep his in front of the bag in order to make the play. He also had his knee blocking the bag before the ball got there, which goes against the Obstruction ruling that "not in the act of fielding impedes the progress of any runner" and "must occupy his position to receive the ball". He was blocking the bag before he fielded the ball, not while he was fielding it, and he did not have to leave his knee there and block the back to receive the ball. It was obstruction.

Literacy isn't my friend?......You do realize that you wrote "you're argument sucks", right?

And Grammar isn't mine, but it doesn't take away from the fact that your argument went from wrong facts to calling me a bandwagoner and a homer, and then questioning my fan loyalty when you don't even know me, all while saying that "spiking people and starting brawls is okay in my book", when I more than clearly say that Crisp SHOULD NOT have charged the mound.

By the way, nice way to further your argument, by correcting grammer. Really contributes to your overall point.



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