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Jim Thome, Hall of Fame? You tell me

Posted on: July 22, 2011 9:59 am
 
Someday soon Jim Thome will hit home run No. 600, and the doors to the Hall of Fame will open wide ... unless they close on his nose, breaking his beak like this poor dude here.

I'm not here to say Jim Thome won't get into the Hall. But I'm not here to say he will, either. I guess I'm here to say that I have no idea, which is fairly damning in and of itself, given that he's about to become just the eighth member of the 600-HR club. That's no-brainer Hall status.

Hell, the 500-HR club is no-brainer Hall status, or it used to be -- when voters were sure the player was clean.

And Thome fits that bill.

While it's true his biggest HR years were in the steroid heyday, it's not his fault that he hit his prime -- ages 26-33 -- in the years 1997-2004. And his career HR totals look totally legitimate, following a normal curve.

There was no magical Mark McGwire peak, is what I'm saying.

Point being, Thome looks clean, has never been linked to steroids, and is about to hit No. 600. Usually, those are first-ballot credentials.

But still I'm not sure on Thome. He has accumulated great statistics from very goodness, if not greatness. He's the offensive version of Bert Blyleven, who is fifth all-time in strikeouts but was so very good -- not great -- that he made the All-Star team just twice in 22 years.

Twice!

Then again, Blyleven will be inducted in the Hall on Sunday -- after 13 years on the ballot.

Back to Thome, who was never the best player in his league, or even one of the three best players in his league. He finished in the top five in MVP voting just once (fourth in 2003), and in the top 10 just three other times. While it's true he has played premium positions -- mostly first base and DH -- he made the All-Star team just five times.

Hell, Harold Baines went six times. So did Sandy Alomar. You see Cooperstown in their future? Of course not.

Back to Thome ...

Other than his 600 home runs, his most lasting place in baseball lore will be for his strikeouts. He's second all-time, 161 whiffs behind Reggie Jackson.

Along with his home runs, Thome's best argument for the Hall lies in the categories of on-base percentage, slugging and OPS. While he has finished in the top 10 in RBI just three times in his 21-year career, he has been in the top 10 in OBP, slugging and OPS ten times each. His career OPS of .960 is 17th all-time.

So now that I think about it, yes, Jim Thome will make it into the Hall of Fame. Old-school voters will love his home runs. Newer-era guys will love those, plus the OPS. And he's a great guy to boot. So he gets in, says me.

Says you?




Category: MLB
Comments

Since: Apr 30, 2008
Posted on: August 5, 2011 9:27 am
 

Jim Thome, Hall of Fame? You tell me

@ ebonyrod2, Wow i don't know where to start really, there is so much flawed thinking going on in this thread it has me confused already. OK i will start here. First what the hell are you talking about man? Condemning them for their past transgressions? What else would you condemn players that have retired for. They are retired so anything you talk about concerning their entrance in to the HOF is past.

Sportswriters just wake up one morning and start thinking up lies to tell about players? That is the most ridiculous thing i have ever read. Sportswriters write about facts that are handed down to them from MLB officials and, owners,from team mates (that could be just hear say) that are around them constantly. If writers and owners , team mates are out right lying about other players using steroids, those accused could sue the hell out of them for liable if their was no substance to it.

 Did you see any players suing MLB officials, team mates, or writers ? Of course not and you know why ? The players were tested and found to be using steroids to enhance their performance and, give them an unfair advantage over others that did not use performance enhancing drugs, that's why.

 Why should cheaters, yes cheaters be allowed to walk in to the HOF when other players who worked and worked hard to be better players will be shunned because there are so many cheaters with padded numbers getting voted in ahead of them ? You tell me, if that is not hypocrisy what is ?

 The hypocrisy is in  players using performance enhancing drugs to rack up numbers in a few years that would other wise take several years to accomplish. Case in point Barry Bonds, hitting more home runs in four years than he hit in the previous 8 seasons. You think that taking that in to consideration in the HOF voting is" condemning them for past transgressions " ? No it is condemning them for cheating on the field of play to gain an advantage over not only the opposition but, over there own hard working team mates and players that work so hard day in and out to be able to do those things that cheaters just use an injection for.

 So blaming sportswriters for the crimes of athletes who more than willingly participated in illegal acts against base ball and, it's fans just doesn't cut it. I may as well bring this up and get it off my chest. Yes these cheaters will still probably get voted in to the HOF anyway, Jim Thome who by the way is a 'clean player' not only deserves to be in the HOF but will be undoubtedly voted in by virtue of hitting over 600 home runs steroid free. Which is more than can be said about the players you mentioned in your thread who should not be because they cheated on the field of play.

 Remember those words, on the field of play. When another player who never cheated as a player on the field of play or off and, who set the record for the most base hits in MLB history 4,256 , had a life time batting average of over 300 ,and drove in over 2,000 RBI.

 4,256 base hits a record that will never be broken and played harder than any player i have ever seen on a base ball field and, never cheated at anything on the field of play or off as a player. Yes, of course i am talking about the great Pete Rose who will never make that walk up to the podium to give his acceptance speech for entry in to the HOF. You talk about hypocrisy, well thats it in a nut shell. Cheaters on the field of play will make that walk, a man who should be there if anybody should will not. Don't talk about hypocrisy unless you know the meaning of the word, which you don't. One mans opinion, you got that right.

                                                                                 PEACE





Since: Aug 21, 2006
Posted on: July 26, 2011 3:39 pm
 

Jim Thome, Hall of Fame? You tell me

<span style="color: #333333;">The DH has been part of baseball since 1973. It's not going anywhere. Accept it and move on.



Since: Mar 9, 2007
Posted on: July 26, 2011 9:57 am
 

Jim Thome, Hall of Fame? You tell me

1594 of Jim Thome's career 2441 games were played as a non-DH positional player. Duh, Big Stack. 



Since: Mar 9, 2007
Posted on: July 26, 2011 9:53 am
 

Jim Thome, Hall of Fame? You tell me

You're a dope Big Stack. Thome a large chunk of his career at 1B. He was the regular starting first baseman for those awesome Cleveland Indian teams in the late 90's. Before that he played 3B.



Since: Jul 25, 2010
Posted on: July 25, 2011 6:47 pm
 

Jim Thome, Hall of Fame? You tell me

Since I don't consider guys who spent most of their time as a DH a baseball player, I would say no. However, he does belong in the Hall of Great Hitters.



Since: Aug 21, 2006
Posted on: July 25, 2011 3:13 pm
 

Jim Thome, Hall of Fame? You tell me

SkyHawk, I became convinced the gold glove award is complete rubbish in 1990.  Cal Ripken set the all-time fielding mark for shortstops with only 3 errors in 680 chances and lost the GG to Ozzie Guillen who racked up 17 errors that season.  The gold glove is a popularity contest and people spent most of 1990 saying Ripken was hurting the team by playing every game and only hitting .250.  Some players completely deserve the recognition of winning a gold glove, but many other winners are a complete joke.
Hence why I addressed that to the Orioles fan with a Boston Bruins logo as his avatar. You understand that the Gold Glove is meaningless. He doesn't.



Since: Aug 21, 2006
Posted on: July 25, 2011 3:11 pm
 

Jim Thome, Hall of Fame? You tell me

If something is so morally wrong that you have taken  a stance to not vote these individuals into the highest honor in their profession, why in the heck would you want to get paid for past works.

Taking steroids to these sports writers is so morally wrong that they have now made themselves jury and judge and will not vote those that admitted to using steroids into the Baseball Hall of Fame.  

If you are getting paid for something that  you do not believe in then you are in fact a hypocrite. If you think that using steroids is so wrong yet you are getting paid for it then you are a hypocrite.

Hypocrisy: The feigning of beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess: insincerity. You are so condemning them for past transgressions
And that's how the business works. You write what the story is at the time. But they did not get paid a penny extra for writing about these players. Full-time writers do not get paid by the story. If there were no steroids, those writers would have written about something else. Are you not allowed to alter your position when you gain new information? Seems like you're the hypocrite here.

Sportswriters in certain cites get paid in excess of $55,000 per year with benefits, travel expense and other perks. So to say a sportswriter is not compensated well is not the exact truth. There are many individuals that would appreciate the position of sportswriter.
Yes, I'm one of them who appreciates that position. I am a sportswriter, and I don't make anywhere near that. I make a little more than half of that, and I'm considered paid well in this business. I love being a sportswriter, but it is a big myth that we are well-compensated. The majority of sportswriters have a four-year degree and make $25,000 or less.



Since: Aug 4, 2008
Posted on: July 23, 2011 1:27 pm
 

Jim Thome, Hall of Fame? You tell me

@Sky Hawk09

If something is so morally wrong that you have taken  a stance to not vote these individuals into the highest honor in their profession, why in the heck would you want to get paid for past works.

Taking steroids to these sports writers is so morally wrong that they have now made themselves jury and judge and will not vote those that admitted to using steroids into the Baseball Hall of Fame.  

If you are getting paid for something that  you do not believe in then you are in fact a hypocrite. If you think that using steroids is so wrong yet you are getting paid for it then you are a hypocrite.

Hypocrisy: The feigning of beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess: insincerity.

You are so condemning them for past transgressions  

By the way in case you are not aware of it Derek Jeter is a baseball player not a sportswriter. I don’t see the comparison.

One hit balls for a living and one write stories for a living be it fiction or truth.

Sportswriters in certain cites get paid in excess of $55,000 per year with benefits, travel expense and other perks. So to say a sportswriter is not compensated well is not the exact truth. There are many individuals that would appreciate the position of sportswriter.

The basic premise is still there, how do these so called sportswriters that got paid to cover the story about Sosa and McGwire place themselves in the position of determining who used and who did not use during the use of the steroids era? Who do they not vote into the Baseball Hall of Fame if you do not know who actually used steroids?

Thome should still be voted in the Baseball Hall of Fame, even if he did use. Oh yeah he has not admitted therefore you don’t know for sure.

“ONE MAN’S OPINION”





Since: Jan 2, 2007
Posted on: July 23, 2011 11:38 am
 

Jim Thome, Hall of Fame? You tell me

You're an Orioles fan. Your team plays in a division with Derek Jeter.

Haven't you figured out by now that Gold Gloves don't mean squat?
SkyHawk, I became convinced the gold glove award is complete rubbish in 1990.  Cal Ripken set the all-time fielding mark for shortstops with only 3 errors in 680 chances and lost the GG to Ozzie Guillen who racked up 17 errors that season.  The gold glove is a popularity contest and people spent most of 1990 saying Ripken was hurting the team by playing every game and only hitting .250.  Some players completely deserve the recognition of winning a gold glove, but many other winners are a complete joke.



Since: Jan 3, 2010
Posted on: July 23, 2011 11:14 am
 

Jim Thome, Hall of Fame? You tell me

There is not automatic entry into the HOF but 600 homeruns and over 1500 runs, RBI and walks is about as close as one get get.  His OPS was extremely good.  The HOF is not soley about statistics but also about character and Thome is a great ambassador for the game of baseball.

Past award votes should not be brought up without context.  Blyleven had 11 or 12 seasons he could have been an all-star (his WAR statistics suggest 9 or 10).  In fact one year he was the best pitcher at the break statistically (without argument) and was not invited to the All-Star game.  Can you imagine if Halladay did not make the All-Star game this year?  Things were different back then and All-Star managers got away with a lot of that crap. 

And do not get me started on writers ability to effectively (with no bias) vote for the end of the year awards (although with the digital age the votes have been a lot better as more accountablity is in place).  Since this post is about Thome, I will use the 2002 AL MVP vote as an example.  In 2002, Thome belted 52 homeruns, batted over .300, and led the AL in slugging and OPS.  What did that earn him in the MVP vote?  Seventh place. 



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