Forgot Log-in or  Password? |  Help  Not a member, Register Now!

Mike Freeman

FreeStyle  

Name: Private
Gender: Private
Member Since: February 9, 2007
Current Level: Superstar
Email: Private
Favorite Teams  

Stan Van Gundy, sports and race. Brilliant.

Posted on: April 6, 2008 5:16 pm
Score: 90
 
Orlando coach Stan Van Gundy, on his radio show, made some of the more remarkable and eloquent comments about the media and sports I have probably heard in some time.

He covered the gambit and it's shocking what he said has not received more play from both people who would agree and disagree.

I'm not just saying this because he agrees with my take on Tyler Hansbrough and the media. I'm saying it because if we had more honest words from players and coaches about race, the issue wouldn't be as thorny as it is.

Here is what Van Gundy said on his radio show. The part of the conversation about Ben Wallace is particularly interesting and something I never thought of.

The interview begins with host Boog Sciambi (who is white) wondering the same thing I did aloud to Van Gundy (who is white): would the qualities assigned to Hansbrough be assigned to him if he were black? This is what Van Gundy said:

"Well probably not. But I think there's two things going on there. Well three. Let's give the guy his due. He plays the game well and he plays it hard okay. With no hyperbole he does do that so let's start there.

"But then the second and third factors I think definitely you hit on it there's the racial thing. People go crazy over white players. They tend to assign character qualities to them rather than just good play. And then the third thing is the emotion. He plays with a lot of emotion. You know, he's jumping up and down, he's all over the place and for whatever reason when fans see that they think that equates to a greater desire to win than a guy let's say that plays like Tim Duncan played even in college. Who just sort of pretty even keeled, doesn't show a lot of emotion but just keeps playing well and getting the job done.

"For whatever reason fans, media whoever equate the show of emotion with a greater desire to win and I think it's B.S. But I think it happens so I think there's that on top of the racial issue."

Van Gundy was then asked about the double standard of a black athlete like Chad Johnson demonstrating a show of emotion and he's denounced versus a white athlete like Hansbrough who is praised.

Said Van Gundy: "That's a great point. I mean I do think that happens a lot. The black guy has no class but the white guy's playing with fire. I don't think there's any question about that.

"But I will say at times you know it does go the other way. Like I always think that Ben Wallace, I've always said, is a good player in this league but if his hair was different he wouldn't have been thought of as highly as he is with his hair flopping around. People go crazy. It's amazing what people latch on to. They talk about his tremendous effort and everything else but if he cut his hair and played like that he'd just be another guy playing hard."

Wow and wow.

His words, I can't stress enough, are some of the more honest on this subject you'll ever see.
Comments Add a Comment
BradyMania
Reputation: 0
Level: Amateur
Since: Mar 20, 2007
Posted on: April 29, 2008 2:00 pm
Score: 84
This comment has been removed.

Post Deleted by Administrator



Mike Freeman
Reputation: 99
Level: Superstar
Since: Feb 9, 2007
Posted on: April 10, 2008 9:45 pm
Score: 90
 

Stan Van Gundy, sports and race. Brilliant.

O'Boile: I like you. You seem like a good dude. However, you are so naive I'm beginning to think you believe in the Eastern Bunny.


OBoile
Reputation: 91
Level: All-Star
Since: Apr 2, 2007
Posted on: April 10, 2008 11:47 am
Score: 80
 

Stan Van Gundy, sports and race. Brilliant.

"Most people who say they don't care about race are liars."

I'm sorry Mike, but that simply isn't true. Most people aren't like you. Its attitudes like this that cause many of the problems in our society. You may want to do some self-reflection on this. I really think you have some problems. You may find that you will be a happier person if you let your racism go.

"But I thought his fist pumping and gyrations were showboating."

What are you talking about? The only "gyration" I can think of was Tyler's stupid run down the court after his game winning shot, which, if you saw it, clearly wasn't planned. And compared to Chad Johnson this is nothing. Its not like he's wearing a coat that announces his future induction into the hall of fame, or pulling a pen out to autograph the ball (or was that T.O.).

Personally I like Chad, but his show boating is pretty much un-matched. Try using someone else to compare.



rob1157
Reputation: 0
Level: Amateur
Since: Apr 1, 2008
Posted on: April 9, 2008 12:30 pm
Score: 27
 

Stan Van Gundy, sports and race. Brilliant.

 The best Van Gundy can do is give his opinon and if you agree with him thats up to you.

I did not equate Ben Wallace hair with his play. I latch on to how he complimented his team style of play.

This is basketball not a fashion show. I think he came to Detroit at the time because of hair...do you?

After watching UNC play this whole seasons the most I have ever seen Tyler celebrate was when he hit a last second jumper in the ACC tournament.

And it was not to taunt anyone. My bad are player not allowed to play with emontion now regaurdless of  race?

 



Mike Freeman
Reputation: 99
Level: Superstar
Since: Feb 9, 2007
Posted on: April 8, 2008 8:11 am
Score: 90
 

Stan Van Gundy, sports and race. Brilliant.

Mr. G: I definitely respect your opinion on all counts.


Mr_G3
Reputation: 97
Level: Superstar
Since: Jan 23, 2008
Posted on: April 8, 2008 2:15 am
Score: 82
 

Stan Van Gundy, sports and race. Brilliant.

Dirk Nowitzki has heart, and grit.  Ginobili does, Gasol does.  You may be right about the perception to an extent.  But I don't think there's a "white bias" in the NBA.  Who is the best player?  I don't think it's any white player, American or European.

Hansbrough will make some NBA team a nice complimentary player.  He will play hard all the time, but he's never going to be a great defensive player by any stretch of the imagination.  He can guard people as long as he's not physically overmatched, which could be a problem for him playing at the 4 position.  But he will be fine on the other end of the court.  Oddly enough, his major plus on the defensive end will be that he knows how to take a charge (similar to Shane Battier).  His detractors criticize him for drawing those charges, but that's a pretty valuable skill.  I don't think any NBA coaches or personnel directors will add or subtract points for him being white, and they know they'll be getting a player who will work on his game and get better over time.



Mr_G3
Reputation: 97
Level: Superstar
Since: Jan 23, 2008
Posted on: April 8, 2008 1:56 am
Score: 85
 

Stan Van Gundy, sports and race. Brilliant.

I will agree that keeping emotions in check is better than excessive celebration, especially in team sports.  At the same time, I think some show of emotion is inevitable and acceptable, if the play being celebrated is contributing to the team's success.  I don't recall seeing Hansbrough celebrating to the point of taunting an opponent.  Drawing charges is something they preach at Carolina, because it requires sacrificing the body and it helps the team.  Hansbrough and lots of other UNC players celebrate those charges not to taunt, but simply because it's part of the culture at Carolina.  It's like the Duke players slapping the floor; it's just something they do, not designed to be a taunt.

A taunt is when you score a touchdown in Texas Stadium and then run from the end zone to the star and dance around like an idiot.  That's a celebration of self, and not of team success; it's just calculated to make people mad.



Mr_G3
Reputation: 97
Level: Superstar
Since: Jan 23, 2008
Posted on: April 8, 2008 1:30 am
Score: 83
 

Stan Van Gundy, sports and race. Brilliant.

Mike:  I don't think it is a fantasy world.  I mean what I say.  I don't think about race or color until someone shoves it in my face.  I'm sorry that so many people in America focus on the differences in a negative way; I prefer to thank God we aren't all the same.  We'd be a pretty limited and boring group of people.

Sorry if I sound like I'm ranting.  I'll admit the Hansbrough article made me mad, but I never once thought of him as a white player before I read your column.  He was just a Tar Heel, and one of the best who has ever played in Chapel Hill.  Now I'm afraid every time I see him, I'll be thinking, "That's Tyler Hansbrough, and he's white."  I remember quite well the days of Sam Perkins, James Worthy, Michael Jordan, etc.  I'm biased when it comes to UNC, I'll readily admit.  But I honestly never think about what color the players are until someone makes an issue of it.  What difference does it make, unless someone is focused on just that?

I didn't criticize your writing style.  I merely made an assumption that you like to shock people into a response with your assertions.  I respect your right to believe or say or write just about anything; I'm just not convinced that race has to be inserted into sports at every opportunity to keep a dialogue going about it. 

I'm not most people, and I'm not a liar.  Your writing elicited a response from me, and I assume that's what you intended to get when you wrote it.  I just think it's a counter-productive strategy.  I believe a significant majority of the people in America despise racism, or are at least willing to respect diversity and be tolerant.  Making them angry with shocking statements is like pouring salt on an open wound.



redskinfan401
Reputation: 97
Level: Superstar
Since: Aug 27, 2006
Posted on: April 8, 2008 12:35 am
Score: 93
 

Stan Van Gundy, sports and race. Brilliant.

Yeah, the Snyder era's been a rough one. Gibbs steadied the ship a bit, but without that strong of a figure as head coach, who knows what's going to happen. I only hope they've finally figured out the right way to build a team, but with the cap trouble this offseason, it's impossible to tell. My worst nightmare right now is giving up our first and third round picks for Chad Johnson. This team needs to fill several holes and WR isn't even the biggest. Anyway, not to get of topic...

I don't like showboating from any player. I'm not going to pretend that race doesn't make a difference in how I perceive a player, but the player's attitude always speaks louder than his skin color. White players have and still do receive the benefit of the doubt when people judge intensity vs showing off. However, in my days of playing basketball, there were show-offs of every color and it ticked me off just as much no matter who did it.


Mike Freeman
Reputation: 99
Level: Superstar
Since: Feb 9, 2007
Posted on: April 7, 2008 6:43 pm
Score: 90
 

Stan Van Gundy, sports and race. Brilliant.

Redskinfan: I could not agree with you more and it goes to the point Van Gundy made. I thought Hansbrough was a great college player. Great. But I thought his fist pumping and gyrations were showboating. As Van Gundy said: when a white athletes acts that way, he's just being intense. An African-American athlete doing the exact same thing is a bad guy.

By the way, grew up a Washington fan but they were dead to me once Snyder bought the team. I'm starting to warm up to them again.


About FreeStyle
Enjoy these delicious ramblings from the Head Blogger in Charge.
RSS - FreeStyle Subscribe to this blog
Mike Freeman's Favorites
The views expressed in this blog are solely those of the author and do not reflect the views of CBS Sports or CBSSports.com