Blog Entry

The Poll Attacks

Posted on: January 5, 2009 5:51 pm
Edited on: January 5, 2009 6:05 pm

John Wilner must hate the color orange.

You'll see why if you keep reading the Poll Attacks.

AP poll: Jon Wilner of the San Jose Mercury News took a beating from Syracuse fans a few weeks ago after I pointed out how he didn't have the Orange ranked even though they were, at the time, 11-1 with wins over Florida, Kansas and Memphis. Ultimately, John declared it a typo, called himself "idiotic" and promised to buy ribs when he was back in town, and I think everybody was OK with it because it was admirable to acknowledge the mistake.

But now John has another problem: Clemson.

He is the only AP voter who doesn't have the Tigers on his ballot, and there's really no explanation for that unless it involves another typo. Clemson is 14-0 with a win over the Illinois team that beat Purdue (which is ranked 11th on John's ballot), a win over the Temple team that beat Tennessee (which is ranked 13th on John's ballot), and wins at Miami and South Carolina.

So by any measuring stick, Clemson has a nice resume.

That's why the Tigers are 10th in the Top 25 (and one), 11th in the Coaches poll and 12th in the AP poll.

So, Clemson fans, I advise you to email John and see why he's not ranking your team.

Perhaps you'll get some ribs out of the deal.

And now it's time for our weekly George Geise update: I must admit, I look forward to George's ballot as much as I look forward to anything, and I'll have you know that he didn't let me down, because the guy's curious pattern of bouncing Xavier all over the place continued. To recap: George did not rank the Musketeers when they started 5-0 with wins over Missouri and Memphis. So I called him on it, and he shot Xavier all the way up to 16th after a victory over Miami (Ohio). From there, the Musketeers went on to lose two of their next six, but George didn't care because he moved them up from 16th to 12th in that time span, which led to me Poll Attacking him last week. So then Xavier won two games over the past seven days, and do you want to guess how George ranked Sean Mller's team this week?

Answer: Not at all.

He dropped the Musketeers from 12th to completely off his ballot after two wins.


Meantime, Gonzaga lost to Utah, but George still has the four-loss Zags ranked 16th.

Can't wait till next week.

Coaches poll: There are about 40 teams that could reasonably make a case to be ranked in the Top 25, so I'm not going to call people stupid for ranking LSU or Stanford or Utah State, because though I don't agree I recognize it's pretty subjective outside the top 15. The only totally dumb vote I see is where some coach put Washington at No. 25 on his ballot, because Washington has three losses (including one to Portland) and no good wins, and I'm not sure how that translates into a Top 25 ranking.

But whatever.

I don't really care.

Because I want to instead focus on Georgetown and how the Hoyas dropped from eighth to 10th after beating UConn and losing to Pittsburgh. Does that make any sense? In last week's Coaches poll, UConn was ranked second, Pitt was third and Georgetown was eighth. So if the No. 8 team manages to split games with the No. 2 team and No. 3 team, how does that make them worse than No. 8? Seems to me that suggests the Hoyas are better than we thought a week ago, which is why I moved John Thompson III's team up from ninth to fifth in the Top 25 (and one).

Category: NCAAB

Since: Sep 7, 2007
Posted on: January 10, 2009 6:15 pm

The Poll Attacks

Gary, you complain that the Hoyas drop after beating UCONN and losing to Pitt. But, when ND, on neutral court, beat #6 Texas and lost to #1 UNC, with BE Player of the year Luke Harangody ill with PNEUMONIA, you dropped them 4 places. So Georgetown moves but ND moved down for doing practically the same thing? That doesnt make sense to me

Since: Dec 9, 2008
Posted on: January 7, 2009 10:15 am

The Poll Attacks

Yes that is comically thats why I take all these polls with a grain of salt, cause some of these qoute sports writers would'nt know a good team from a bad team.

Yes it's nice to see what people think of different teams, and I know everyone is titled to there opinion and look at teams differently than others, but the two team in question here are no brianer top 25 teams if not higher.


Since: Nov 17, 2008
Posted on: January 6, 2009 8:37 pm

The Poll Attacks

Hey, Parrish, UW beat Portland State WITHOUT John Brockman,  our best player. Plus Portland State beat gonzaga, a formally ranked team.
They also stomped Oklahoma State, whom is no pushover. Yeah having them ranked that high is a lil ridiculous, however i bet by how you talk about UW that youve never watched them play this season.

So you can kiss mine and UW's A$$es

Since: Sep 18, 2008
Posted on: January 6, 2009 7:44 pm

The Poll Attacks

Butler has played a great non-conference schedule for a midwest mid-major. I say this because we all know that smaller schools on the east coast get to be scheduled as easy wins for acc/big east/sec teams. Many thought they would have to rebuild instead of just reload. I bet the old coach is wishing he wasn't stuck in Iowa City right about now.

Since: Oct 29, 2007
Posted on: January 6, 2009 7:16 pm

The Poll Attacks

What about Cal?  13-2 and beating both Arizona teams this past weekend!!!  Still no love for the west coast unless your name is UCLA or U$C.  I know they have yet to prove themselves but show a little love, this is a young team with a new coach and they have surprised everyone out here in Berkely!!!

Since: Oct 14, 2008
Posted on: January 6, 2009 1:33 pm

The Poll Attacks

Obviouxly, that should have read "be thankful he ISN'T.....", not is.....

Since: Oct 14, 2008
Posted on: January 6, 2009 1:30 pm

The Poll Attacks

Dawgies, welcome to the wild and wonderful (tho not at all logical) world of Jerry Tipton.  This guy is an ass act (and yes, I intentionally left off the cl-) in the utmost sense of the word.  Just be thankful he is going around making up slanderous stories and putting words in the mouths of kids and their families to support his baseless and idiotic ramblings.  Because, trust me, he does that very very often.

Since: Sep 20, 2006
Posted on: January 6, 2009 12:56 pm

The Poll Attacks

Jon Wilmer may be on drugs when he watches ACC games?  Because other than NC & Duke (and BC...who no one knew where to put them between 16-unranked), none of his ranking makey any sense...

I mean what is with ranking Florida State #17?  That's above BC - in what universe are wins against Florida & @Cinci > wins against Iowa, Providence, St.Johns, & @NC?   FLST has no business being ranked period right now, much less above not only BC, but above Wake Forrest who he has at #19?   Yeah,  that's right he has an undefeated Wake allllll the way down at 19...  I mean I know a lot of people think they are probably over rated (and the people who put them as #2 may need to be slapped ),  but they do have a win against a ranked Baylor, and just snapped the nations longest win streak at BYU...and he has them barely in the top 20?

Since: Oct 30, 2007
Posted on: January 6, 2009 12:50 pm

The Poll Attacks

Because I want to instead focus on Georgetown and how the Hoyas dropped from eighth to 10th after beating UConn and losing to Pittsburgh. Does that make any sense? In last week's Coaches poll, UConn was ranked second, Pitt was third and Georgetown was eighth. So if the No. 8 team manages to split games with the No. 2 team and No. 3 team, how does that make them worse than No. 8?


The key decider is the loss was at home and they were soundly beaten.  Playing home vs away is a huge factor in rating a team's wins and losses.   

Since: Jan 25, 2008
Posted on: January 6, 2009 11:28 am

The Poll Attacks

To Mucheesehead:

I agree with what you are saying and the approach some people may take.  This is completely reasonable.  However, few ballots ever have a consistent rationalization behind them. 

In all honesty the biggest issue is a lack of information.  It is amazing to me that the AP does not provide ANY information to the writers.  Two suggestions...

(1) How about an email every Sunday with information about each and every team who received a vote the week before showing your their results from that week, RPI, SOS, best win and worst loss.

(2) How about an analysis like what is done on so voters see how they compare each week. 

These two pieces of information may help educate voters and also create some sense of responsibility or pride in the vote they cast.  In looking at some of the ballots it is frustrating to think that some of these people determine who is or is not #1 in the nation or who is or is not in the Top 25.  To some of the smaller schools around the country being in the Top 25 can do a lot for recruiting - your results will also be on the ESPN and AP tickers!


The views expressed in this blog are solely those of the author and do not reflect the views of CBS Sports or