Blog Entry

The Poll Attacks

Posted on: February 23, 2009 6:15 pm
Edited on: February 24, 2009 3:29 am

Stupidity, you are about to be exposed.

It's time to Poll Attack !

AP poll: I'm not sure how two voters moved Oklahoma from No. 2 to No. 1 on their ballots after a loss to unranked Texas. But I'll let that slide, I guess, because though it makes almost no sense, it at least makes (slightly) more sense than leaving Connecticut No. 1 after it lost on its home court to the team that should be No. 1 on everybody's ballot, namely Pittsburgh.

We all saw Pitt beat UConn last week, right?

I was there.

I wrote about it and everything.

It really happened.

And it's primarily why UConn can't be ahead of Pitt.

At least the folks placing Oklahoma No. 1 could discount the loss by claiming that Blake Griffin only played 11 minutes, and that it came on the road, and that if he wouldn't have been concussed the Sooners might've recorded the win. To be clear, I disagree, because key players play limited minutes all the time in this sport, and we don't discount losses across the board when it happens (although if you want to do it, fine, but I'll just point out that DeJuan Blair only played 20 minutes in each of Pitt's losses because of foul trouble). Plus, OU was losing at the moment Griffin was injured. So it's not like the Sooners fell apart after the injury (like Saint Mary's fell apart at Gonzaga last month after Patrick Mills went down), meaning there's nothing on this planet suggesting Oklahoma was going to win that game the other night regardless of whether Griffin played or not.

But whatever.

I'm not here to make that point.

I'm more concerned with how somebody could leave UConn ahead of Pitt, because in this case we have two teams with similar bodies of work (though Pitt's is clearly better, and I'll explain that momentarily) and a recent head-to-head match-up to settle the debate. Again, Pitt just beat UConn. At UConn. And when you combine that with the fact that Pitt has the exact same overall record (25-2) against a better schedule, plus a better RPI ranking, better ranking at, more quality wins, better losses and no home losses (UConn has two), then it's pretty clear that Pitt should be ranked No. 1 in the country.

I mean, I took all that time to explain it Saturday night.

The least the AP voters could do was listen.

And do you want to guess who it was that voted UConn No. 1 and Pitt No. 2?

(Seriously, you're going to love this.)

It was our old friend George Geise from Montana, a future first-ballot Poll Attack Hall of Famer who has been featured in this blog many times for his inexplicable voting habits. You can read some of his past transgressions here and here and here and here . And when you go to sleep tonight, pray for him, because at this point it's clear George needs all the help he can get.

Coaches poll: Why is Saint Mary's getting votes?

I was fundamentally against the idea even when Patrick Mills was playing because of a lack of quality wins, though I could tolerate it because I believed the Gaels were Top 25-ish. But now Mills is hurt, and Saint Mary's is 4-4 since the injury, 20-5 overall against Division 1 opponents and saddled with more losses outside the top 50 (three) than it has wins inside the top 50 (two).

Does that sound like a top 25 team?

Of course it doesn't.

But the Gaels still got four points in the Coaches poll.

Only thing dumber than that is Utah State getting 22 points.

I mean, Utah State has a body of work even less impressive than Saint Mary's, and at least Saint Mary's has an excuse. You watch, if Utah State doesn't win the WAC tournament, the Aggies -- who just lost to a Mills-less Saint Mary's team, by the way -- are going to miss the NCAA tournament, and people will go crazy. But then somebody else -- it'll probably be me -- will point out how Utah State has exactly one top 50 victory and a 3-3 record against the top 90 of's RPI, and then all those people will have to be quiet because they'll have nothing tangible to back their argument, and I'll look so smart I won't know what to do with myself.

Category: NCAAB

Since: Feb 24, 2009
Posted on: February 25, 2009 12:09 am

The Poll Attacks


"They lost to bad teams"

If I'm not mistaken, I think Xavier and Syracuse are Top 25 Teams.  But, your ignorance of this team is nothing new to us.  We welcome the "HATERADE".  This year is no different than the last or the year before that. People doubt and we roll past them. This is our time of the year. It's what we do, get use to it!


Since: Mar 23, 2007
Posted on: February 24, 2009 11:24 pm

The Poll Attacks

UCONN and Oklahoma look strong, and Pitt loses to Providence immeidately after being named the new #1. 


The fans had it right.  The only problem is that North Carolina isn't ranked high enough.


Since: Nov 12, 2006
Posted on: February 24, 2009 10:59 pm

The Poll Attacks

Can we please get Memphis out of the top 10 they do not deserve it I mean Evans is talented but overall this is not a top 10 team.  They lost to bad teams and now fill up their win column with cupcakes. It is a disgrace to all of the big east, acc, and big ten teams that actually play good teams. Oh yeah memphis has the best defense but its against some of the worst teams in div.1. I can't take this anymore something has to be done.

Since: Feb 2, 2009
Posted on: February 24, 2009 10:14 pm

The Poll Attacks

Hawkman77 - and your convincing logic regarding the quality or strength of a conference is based on the scoring in one game?  I'd think any analysis of a conference would require more than looking to a single statistic from a single game.

As I've previously posted, conference comparisons seem quite debatable, even more so than team rankings (which we can all see is very debated).  With your reputation, I would have expected more analysis than a judgment of the Big Ten based on a single game you happened to watch and an apparent dig at the Mountain West.  Even the Big Ten - ACC Challenge doesn't provide a full comparison of those conferences - yes, it is enjoyable to watch though and get some idea of what to expect from those teams.

Did the Penn State - Illinois game stink?  Yep, other than for Penn State fans.  Fortunately for Illinois, one game doesn't generally make a season (you know, unless you have little hope of tournament play and you get to knock off a top ranked team - then that one game may be the best positive light to view a less-than great season).

I'll agree with pghman6 regarding judging conferences.  Root for your team(s), root for your conference(s).  March is in sight with all the fun that brings!

Since: Nov 12, 2006
Posted on: February 24, 2009 8:57 pm

The Poll Attacks

How is the Big Ten overrated when they have only three teams in the top 25? That doesn't seem very overrated. I think most people would agree that the Big Ten is underrated.

Yeah?  You'd be wrong.  We don't think the Big Ten is underrated.  It might be rated correctly, it might be overrated.  But I saw that matchup between two upper tier Big 10 teams where they combined for 71 points and you know what?  That kind of play wouldn't be upper tier in the Mountain West Conference.

Since: Oct 17, 2006
Posted on: February 24, 2009 7:35 pm

The Poll Attacks

I'd bet my life savings that 2 of St. John's, Rutgers, DePaul, Seton Hall, or South Florida would beat Penn State if Penn St. played all 5 on a neutral court.  Seton Hall, South Florida, and St. John's would have more wins if they played in the Big 10 or Pac 10.  They are actually better than people give them credit for.  If Seton Hall played in the SEC west, they'd be a tournament team.  Mark my word.


Which word?  I'll give you Seton Hall being a decent team if you put them out of the top 4 conferences (they have lost to IUPUI and James Madison), but St. Johns with no top 65 wins?  Really?  There best 3 wins are Notre Dame, Seton Hall, and CORNELL.  South Florida? The 8-18 team? The team that lost to Oral Roberts and Wright St.?  And then you've got Rutgers and Depaul.  What from what you've seen makes you believe that they could beat Penn St.?  The beatdown of Robert Morris?  Sneaking by Rider? Losing to Morgan St?

Other than not having actually watched Penn St. play and not liking the name of the school what is it that makes you think they're such a terrible team?



Since: Feb 24, 2009
Posted on: February 24, 2009 4:35 pm

The Poll Attacks

ok the poll attacks have rapidly become one of my favorite weekly blogs and God-bless Monanna George for all the fodder. At this point though don't you think George has earned a regular weekly update and a few other deserving voters should get their recognition. There are truly some mind boggling votes this week.

Since: Mar 21, 2008
Posted on: February 24, 2009 4:19 pm

The Poll Attacks said...


Why doesn't Memphis move up?  Poor RPI.  Most voters think a close loss to Duke is better than pounding UTEP. 

Since when is a 7 point win a "pounding"????? Memphis only beat UTEP by 7, that is far from pounding them. So I agree with your first statement...lot's of flaws here...

And how does a 7 point win against a team that is FAR FROM being a top 25 team, show that Memphis is "asserting" itself as you claim??

I think Memphis fans are going to wish there was a BCS system in College Bball that would miraculously put them in the title game, because unfortunately in College Bball they are going to have to win 6 consecutive games against teams that are increasingly better in each round. After round 1, almost all of the teams left in the NCAA tourney will be better than anyone that Memphis has played - and beaten, this year. The only possible exception is probably the Zags - maybe.

Last year Memphis was NOT over-rated. This year they are. Last year they played and beat some very good teams. Their schedule and results this year are not the same high caliber as last year. Some of that is not their fault. Tennessee is not as good as expected, so that win isn't as significant as it would have been, say last year.

Is Memphis a good team? Sure. Are they a top 5 team? It is hard for me to see how they are, even though the computers seem to like them. But then the computers really liked (before their meltdowns) and to some degree still like Gtown and ND. I'd like Memphis fans to show me 3 wins against top 25 competition. They should have at least that many to be considered a top 5 team. How many wins against current top 25 teams do they have? I'm waiting!!!!

Since: Oct 26, 2007
Posted on: February 24, 2009 3:50 pm

The Poll Attacks

You can see how everybody in the AP voted for Pitt (or any other team) here:

Since: Feb 21, 2009
Posted on: February 24, 2009 1:12 pm

The Poll Attacks

Everyone comes on here and complains that Parrish has no idea, but thats the point. It starts exactly what everyone is doing, making their point.  He then reads them and uses them later because no matter how good you are, you cannot follow every team and see every game.  Anyways, any team can beat any team on any given day. Teams have bad shooting days, stars go down, (Blake Griffin gets hurt and OK loses to in a row.), or refs dictate play.   I mean how did Georgetown beat Uconn?  I am a Pitt fan, and believe they are #1, but they could lose to a desperate Providence team fighting for a round of 64 berth.    Everyone on here makes good points except for the fact that people caompare conferences.  Thats a hard thing to judge. The Big East is a brutal conference. Refs usually allow rough play that alot of other conferences dont.  The ACC to me is an offensive conference.  Big Ten seems a lil more defensive.  How can you really compare? Its been proven in past yrs.  Great Pitt teams with a rough defensive style have lost in the tourney because they werent allowed to play that style.  Would Pitt be able to play like that in the ACC?  Who knows? Lets just see who wins and the end instead of arguing who the best is now. Good luck to all. Let the best team win.

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