Blog Entry

The Poll Attacks

Posted on: December 7, 2009 5:00 pm
Edited on: December 7, 2009 8:28 pm

What's easier: Killing the BCS or killing the AP and Coaches polls?

I say both.

Let's Poll Attack !

AP poll:
It's to the point where I'm now getting text messages from people telling me whom to Poll Attack while I'm driving down the road. Swear to Tiger Woods, that happened Monday. The text said simply, "Check out Roger Clarkson's ballot. What a mess."

Naturally, I checked out the ballot of Roger Clarkson of the Athens Banner-Herald .

Man, what a mess.

First, he has Pittsburgh ranked 18th even though Pitt has no relevant players from last season's team, no good wins and a 16-point loss to Texas. There is absolutely nothing -- not preseason expectations, not current body of work, not anything -- to suggest Pitt is one of the best 25 teams in America, much less No. 18. But that's where Roger has the Panthers ranked. And would you believe that's not even the dumbest thing on his ballot?

(Trust me, it gets better!)

Roger also has Louisville ranked 20th. That's the same Louisville team that's 5-2 with no good wins, the same Louisville team that lost to UNLV (the Rebels are three spots below Louisville on Roger's ballot, by the way), the same Louisville team that's coming off an 87-65 home loss to a Charlotte team that earlier lost 101-59 to Duke. In other words, Louisville just lost by 22 at home to a team that lost by 42 at Duke. And yet Roger ranked Louisville 20th in the nation.

(But wait, there's more!)

Roger also has Washington ranked 16th and Texas Tech unranked even though Washington just lost at Texas Tech, and Texas Tech remains undefeated. And Roger has North Carolina ranked No. 8 and Syracuse ranked No. 13 even though North Carolina is 7-2 with a 16-point loss to Syracuse, and Syracuse remains undefeated. And Roger has Michigan State ranked No. 9 and Florida ranked No. 15 even though Michigan State is 6-2 with a loss to Florida, and Florida remains undefeated.

Man, what a mess.

Coaches poll: OK, follow me here.

Missouri State is 7-0 with a win over Tulsa.

Tulsa is 7-1 with a (lone) loss to Missouri State and win over Oklahoma State.

And Oklahoma State is 7-1 with a loss to Tulsa.

So to summarize, Oklahoma State has lost to Tulsa, which has only lost to Missouri State, which is undefeated. And yet the coaches have those teams in reverse order. OSU got 17 points, Tulsa got five and Missouri State got zero. I would ask you to make sense of that, but it's impossible to make sense of that, so let's not waste each other's time.
Category: NCAAB

Since: Nov 15, 2006
Posted on: December 8, 2009 5:43 pm

The Poll Attacks

Purdue has beaten (by my prediction only) exactly one tournament team (Tennessee) whereas Villanova has beaten four (George Mason, Dayton, Old Miss, and Maryland).  Just because a victory isn't over a Top 25 team, doesn't mean it is not quality.

Since: Dec 11, 2006
Posted on: December 8, 2009 4:32 pm

The Poll Attacks

Gary --

Thanks for the props on Missouri State!  We know Coach Martin has us headed in the right direction after years of disappointment.

Since: Nov 24, 2009
Posted on: December 8, 2009 3:17 pm

The Poll Attacks

In order to inject a little more objective context into the AP poll conversation, I wanted to provide the following information concerning the AP's current top 5 teams.  I have provided the teams' current RPI's (rating percentage index) and SoS's (strength of schedule), victories over top 25 teams (ranked), and poor victories over non-top 25 teams (unranked).  Info as follows:

#5 Purdue, RPI: 7, SoS: 38
Victories over RANKED opponents: #9 Tennessee
Double-digit victories over all UNRANKED opponents

#4 Kentucky, RPI: 37, SoS: 171
Victories over RANKED opponents: #10 North Carolina
Poor victories over UNRANKED Miami (OH) 72-70, Stanford 73-65

#3 Villanova, RPI: 12, SoS: 71
NO victories over RANKED opponents
Poor victories over UNRANKED George Mason 69-68, Dayton 71-65, Maryland 95-86

#2 Texas, RPI: 3, SoS: 16
NO victories over RANKED opponents
Double-digit victories over all UNRANKED opponents

#1 Kansas, RPI: 47, SoS: 211
NO victories over RANKED opponents
Poor victory over UNRANKED Memphis, 57-55

A few of these teams were a field-goal or two away versus UNRANKED opponents (more than once) from possibly not even being rightfully included in the top 5 discussion (Kentucky, Villanova, Kansas), and a few these teams have NO victories over ranked opponents (Villanova, Kansas, Texas).  Which team didn't fall into either of these negative categories: PurduePurdue has the highest victory of the top 5 teams (beating #9 Tennessee), has double-digit victories over all unranked opponents, and also has the second highest RPI (#7) of the top five teams.  I am not saying that Purdue necessarily deserves a #1 ranking (although that argument could be easily made), but Purdue to date, in my opinion, has performed to a level which is deserving of a HIGHER ranking than #5, especially when compared to the other current top 5 teams and their accolades.  BOILER UP!!!

Since: Jan 16, 2007
Posted on: December 8, 2009 2:05 pm

The Poll Attacks

Good catch robothouse, like I said I haven't followed super close at this point in the year.  I didn't know MS (who I rated at 36) beat KSU (my #19).  I saw KSU play Dayton and they looked really good. 

I don't remember if KSU or MS is ranked in the actual polls, and the "who beat who" argument gets really hard to apply after awhile.  That being said, MS was a misfire on my part, and I take it back.

The intent of my post was not to start a war or anything; instead I was pointing out that this early in the season, you can only bag so much on someone for their ratings.  Everyone's ratings have holes at this point, so although I think the poll attacks are really great right now you can pick pretty much anyone and find holes in their ratings.

Since: Oct 12, 2008
Posted on: December 8, 2009 1:08 pm

The Poll Attacks

My previous post was a reply to pn21250 by the way.

Since: Oct 12, 2008
Posted on: December 8, 2009 1:06 pm

The Poll Attacks

OK, let me get this straight, you have Kansas State ranked at 17, but "Ole Miss isn't a top 25 team at this point by any reasonable measure"  What?! Ole Miss beat KSU by double digits on a neutral court and both teams have one loss. Ole Miss should obviously be ranked higher than KSU at this point in the season.   

Since: Jul 8, 2007
Posted on: December 8, 2009 11:05 am

The Poll Attacks

hooray for making fun of voters!

but we shouldnt make such huge deal out of a game here and there. should wisconsin be ranked higher than dook because of one game?

rankings obviously reflect how good people think teams are, because with teams having played 1 or 2 quality opponents, you do not have a large enough sample size to accurately know exactly which team should be ahead of which.

Since: Jan 16, 2007
Posted on: December 8, 2009 10:59 am

The Poll Attacks

statfan, what the heck are you talking about?  My point about T Tech was more sound and reasonable than your realized when you bit back, and you were wrong.  It's okay; the season is still early.

It takes real courage to take shots at someone's team when you don't put your own favorites up.  That must make you feel real good about yourself. 

Since: Dec 1, 2008
Posted on: December 8, 2009 9:41 am

The Poll Attacks


It's fine to disparage a team like Washington, it's proof of you missing a chromosome.  I see you are a Clemson Fan, and I would just like to offer my congrats on Blowing a 23 point lead against a team who lost to Bradley (who lost to Western Carolina). 

And well done closing out your football season too!  ACC Cham...oh wait, nope.  But at least you won your inter-state rivalr....oh wait, nope.  But hey, you got that HUGE win over N.C. State!

Do us a favor and cut off the internet connection in your grandparent's basement and spare us your indolence.

P.S. See you on "To Catch A Predator" Soon!

Since: Dec 25, 2008
Posted on: December 8, 2009 8:55 am

The Poll Attacks

 North Caroline has 2 losses, but they are a good team (I believe better than SyracuseLMAO.

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