Blog Entry

The Poll Attacks

Posted on: December 7, 2009 5:00 pm
Edited on: December 7, 2009 8:28 pm

What's easier: Killing the BCS or killing the AP and Coaches polls?

I say both.

Let's Poll Attack !

AP poll:
It's to the point where I'm now getting text messages from people telling me whom to Poll Attack while I'm driving down the road. Swear to Tiger Woods, that happened Monday. The text said simply, "Check out Roger Clarkson's ballot. What a mess."

Naturally, I checked out the ballot of Roger Clarkson of the Athens Banner-Herald .

Man, what a mess.

First, he has Pittsburgh ranked 18th even though Pitt has no relevant players from last season's team, no good wins and a 16-point loss to Texas. There is absolutely nothing -- not preseason expectations, not current body of work, not anything -- to suggest Pitt is one of the best 25 teams in America, much less No. 18. But that's where Roger has the Panthers ranked. And would you believe that's not even the dumbest thing on his ballot?

(Trust me, it gets better!)

Roger also has Louisville ranked 20th. That's the same Louisville team that's 5-2 with no good wins, the same Louisville team that lost to UNLV (the Rebels are three spots below Louisville on Roger's ballot, by the way), the same Louisville team that's coming off an 87-65 home loss to a Charlotte team that earlier lost 101-59 to Duke. In other words, Louisville just lost by 22 at home to a team that lost by 42 at Duke. And yet Roger ranked Louisville 20th in the nation.

(But wait, there's more!)

Roger also has Washington ranked 16th and Texas Tech unranked even though Washington just lost at Texas Tech, and Texas Tech remains undefeated. And Roger has North Carolina ranked No. 8 and Syracuse ranked No. 13 even though North Carolina is 7-2 with a 16-point loss to Syracuse, and Syracuse remains undefeated. And Roger has Michigan State ranked No. 9 and Florida ranked No. 15 even though Michigan State is 6-2 with a loss to Florida, and Florida remains undefeated.

Man, what a mess.

Coaches poll: OK, follow me here.

Missouri State is 7-0 with a win over Tulsa.

Tulsa is 7-1 with a (lone) loss to Missouri State and win over Oklahoma State.

And Oklahoma State is 7-1 with a loss to Tulsa.

So to summarize, Oklahoma State has lost to Tulsa, which has only lost to Missouri State, which is undefeated. And yet the coaches have those teams in reverse order. OSU got 17 points, Tulsa got five and Missouri State got zero. I would ask you to make sense of that, but it's impossible to make sense of that, so let's not waste each other's time.
Category: NCAAB

Since: Jan 16, 2007
Posted on: December 8, 2009 8:14 am

The Poll Attacks

Texas Tech Schedule So Far

South Dakota
Texas A&M Corpus Christi
Oregon St.
Northwestern St.
SF Austin

A real murderer's row there statfanatic.  You sure got me on that one.  Douche.

Since: Mar 14, 2009
Posted on: December 8, 2009 5:07 am

The Poll Attacks

For me, the problem is that we usually base the rankings upon the present moment, as in today. Now, that sounds good. I know. But what we must consider is really how good a team really is (even with 2 or 3 early season losses) and how they will ultimately be. Michigan State has 2 losses, but they are going to be a very good team (or they ARE a very good team). North Caroline has 2 losses, but they are a good team (I believe better than Syracuse, at least based upon usual trends for Syracuse as conference play hits). I am happy for Texas Tech these days and Pat Knight, who was on the 'hot seat'. But I still don't think they are a solid Top 25 lock. If they stay there and keep winning, that is really good. But remember Arkansas last year. They were around 13-1 and in the Top 25 at mid-season last year. Then they entered SEC play and got hammered with only 2 conference wins. So, I struggle with this idea of ranking teams purely based upon the moment. There are some teams inside the Top 25 that should not be there and there are some teams outside of the Top 25 that should be in. And there are some teams that need to switch places in the Top 25. Let's not just 'vote' on who is playing good this week. But let's really consider who are a good teams. This is why pre-season rankings are quite silly. Especially doing it the week after the Final Four.

Just some thoughts to consider.

Since: Dec 1, 2008
Posted on: December 8, 2009 1:15 am

The Poll Attacks

Pn21250-I assume PN stands for Pumpus Numbskull,
  Texas Tech has beat everyone they should so far, with a really good win over the class of the Pac 10, and another fine win over a middle of the Pac 10 team.  That combines with the explosive offense is absolutely what a team needs to do to differentiate themselves and jump into the rankings. 

P.S. It is completely unnecessary to take time out of surfing E-Harmony simply to make a snide remark toward Gary!

Since: Feb 5, 2007
Posted on: December 7, 2009 10:02 pm

The Poll Attacks

How is it that noone else voted for Memphis. They demolished all their opponents and lost to #1 Kansas by only 2.


That's better than GTOWN who beat Temple by 1 on the final play. Theyhaven't proven anything yet.


Just flat out replace them. Take GTOWN out of the Polls and put Memphis in their spot.

Since: Dec 8, 2008
Posted on: December 7, 2009 9:39 pm

The Poll Attacks

Definitely down but can we replace chimp with chimpmunk and use this cute little fellow? 

Since: Jan 16, 2007
Posted on: December 7, 2009 9:15 pm

The Poll Attacks

I'm resigned to the notion that the polls aren't really going to correlate to anything until January 1st.  I think that's when people start really paying attention.  I do a top 50, every week, and I'll admit at this point I haven't watched a lot of b-ball (I am in grad school, finals next week).  My rankings as of right now incorporate a lot of gut feeling (hence I have Richmond at #25, St. John's at #47) and what little exposure I've had (Kansas St #17).  I try to make sure to keep within reasonable range of the sagarin ratings but beyond that at this point of the year it's kind of a guess anyways.

To be fair, your rankings aren't that great either.  You have a Gonzaga team at 17 who just lost to Wake who isn't that highly regarded. Ole Miss isn't a top 25 team at this point by any reasonable measure, yet there you have them at 21.  Texas Tech has beaten all of one team who isn't a community college and although it's cute to rank them they're not really a top 25 team either.  It appears that there may be one more to add to the list of people who aren't paying much attention to what's happening on the court.

Since: Feb 3, 2008
Posted on: December 7, 2009 9:00 pm

AP Ballots

Hey Gary,
   Is there anywhere online that AP voters' results can be found each week? I always want to check out individual voters' ballots, but haven't been able to find a reliable source.

Since: Sep 5, 2009
Posted on: December 7, 2009 8:00 pm

The Poll Attacks

North Carolina was last years unanimous preseason #1.

Since: Aug 15, 2006
Posted on: December 7, 2009 7:45 pm

The Poll Attacks

exactly the polls mean zero in college basketball, who cares if a coach voted someone higher this week after a loss.  His vote means nothing in March.

Since: Feb 26, 2009
Posted on: December 7, 2009 7:30 pm

The Poll Attacks

Hey schildkrotte, you know voters take into RPI don't you? Especially late in the season. So ya strength of schedule, road/neutral/home wins, all that is taken into consideration.

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