Blog Entry

The Poll Attacks

Posted on: December 14, 2009 6:42 pm
Edited on: December 14, 2009 6:52 pm

Roger Clarkson is trying to be stubborn.

Fine with me.

I'll Poll Attack him again.

Let's do this!

AP poll: First, let's revisit what I wrote about Roger last week.

(And I quote ...)

"He has Pittsburgh ranked 18th even though Pitt has no relevant players from last season's team, no good wins and a 16-point loss to Texas. There is absolutely nothing -- not preseason expectations, not current body of work, not anything -- to suggest Pitt is one of the best 25 teams in America, much less No. 18. But that's where Roger has the Panthers ranked. And would you believe that's not even the dumbest thing on his ballot?"

From there, I went on to destroy Roger's ballot -- you can read last week's Poll Attacks here -- and I thought he'd take the hint, learn a lesson, and we'd all be better for it. Instead, this dude ranked Pitt again despite Pitt losing by double-digits to an Indiana team that might finish last in the Big Ten.


Is public humiliation not enough?

Is he just testing me?

And though you might think I'd hold myself to a higher standard and not pick on the same person's ballot every week, you'd be wrong to think that. I will do this every Monday until Pitt is removed from Roger's ballot. So stay tuned. And Roger's crazy if he assumed I'd be too focused on him having Pitt at No. 24 to notice that he also inexplicably has Washington at No. 16, because I noticed that, too. But I'll use the Coaches poll portion of the Poll Attacks to explain my issue with Washington.

Coaches poll:
Washington is 6-2 with both losses coming to ranked teams -- the first to No. 20 Texas Tech, the second to No. 11 Georgetown. But none of the Huskies' six wins are notable, meaning they are 6-2 with zero good wins. Meantime, Dayton is 7-2 with both losses also coming to ranked teams -- the first to No. 9 Villanova, the second to No. 22 Kansas State. But to help offset those losses, the Flyers have a win over No. 15 Georgia Tech in addition to wins over Creighton, George Mason and Old Dominion.

So to summarize, Dayton's losses are certainly no worse than Washington's, and Dayton absolutely has better wins than Washington. This cannot be debated. And yet Washington is ranked 21st with 146 points. And Dayton is ranked 41st with nine points.

Seriously, could anybody reasonably suggest Washington's body of work is better than Dayton's body of work?

If so, I can't see how.

(Worth noting: Roger has Washington at No. 16 and Dayton unranked. Also worth noting: Roger has Georgia Tech at No. 19. You know, the same Georgia Tech that Dayton beat on a neutral court.)

The dumb coaches (and Roger) also have Washington (6-2 record with no good wins) ahead of Kansas State (9-1 record, only loss to No. 25 Ole Miss with wins over Dayton, Washington State, Xavier and No. 23 UNLV), and that's twice as dumb as having Washington over Dayton. So I don't know why I even worry with this stuff, except for that it gives me something to do on Monday afternoons.

Since: Feb 15, 2009
Posted on: December 15, 2009 9:38 am

The Poll Attacks

I applaud you for making sense. Some people read too deep into this stuff. Great job breaking it down simply.

Since: Jan 16, 2007
Posted on: December 15, 2009 7:44 am

The Poll Attacks

Crap, I have Washington (#29) ahead of Dayton (#36) too.  I still contend that the polls have little to no meaning until 12/31.  For what it's worth, Washington was 20 spots higher in the sagarin ratings (on 12/14).

The Pitt ranking does seem a bit silly

Since: Mar 17, 2008
Posted on: December 15, 2009 1:08 am

The Poll Attacks

All Parrish is trying to do is give an example of a team that could be better than the team is over rated.  He isn't going to give every single team a break down as to who they've lost to and who they've beaten.  He has only tried to make a point quickly and accurately which he has, and has moved on to another topic.  Why does everybody here think that the writers on here play favorites?  If he were to do what you ask, his article would be about 3 pages longer and people would lose interest in the rest of the article because he beats one issue to death. 

Since: Mar 17, 2007
Posted on: December 15, 2009 12:46 am

The Poll Attacks


What about the poll by Dave Jones.  Last week  he had St Johns at 12th when no one else has them ranked.   He had Tennessee at 21st despite having only one loss to Purdue by 1 on a neutral site.  He had 11 teams at the most exttreme of voters and another 7 near the extreme.  His poll on pollspeak looked like they alternated lines between red yellow and white.   This week is no better...He has 10 teams at the most extreme and another 4 near extreme.   He has St Johns way too high at 11 now.  Tennessee is still too low at 19.  Every vote except for Kansas, Purdue, and Villanova has 40 plus voters voting in a certain way different them him.  

Since: Mar 23, 2009
Posted on: December 15, 2009 12:34 am

The Poll Attacks

Memphis should definitely be ranked. You can barely count a 2 point defeat to the #1 team a loss. They've done above and beyond what it takes to be a top 25 team, and they certainly deserve a decent ranking.

Since: Dec 15, 2009
Posted on: December 15, 2009 12:12 am

The Poll Attacks

what about memphis people forget they took the number one team in the nation to the wire and could have won but still get no respect. what do they have to do 

Since: Dec 14, 2009
Posted on: December 14, 2009 11:12 pm

The Poll Attacks


You want to mock something, how about the RPI??  Washington 11, Western Carolina 14 Cornell for Gawd's sake 24th.  Just a total joke.  No reason to even list it at this time of the year.  Just utterly meaningless.

Since: Mar 7, 2008
Posted on: December 14, 2009 10:30 pm

The Poll Attacks

Why are you cracking on MSU?  Their story is the same every year - play tough teams pre-conference, lose some of those games (especially road games where we're 3-16 against ranked teams in away games), finish in the top 3 in the Big Ten, and then either lose in the first round of the tourney or go to the Final Four.  Hopefully this is a Final Four year.  Calling them 'vastly over-rated' is a bit of a stretch, especially coming from a Penn St guy (doddering old coach must be worth at least 5 AP spots).  Let the season play out.  College basketball rankings are meaningless anyway, unlike football.  Make it to the dance and anything can happen.

Since: Feb 9, 2009
Posted on: December 14, 2009 9:14 pm

The Poll Attacks

About to attack the polls....hopefully.

Definitley early but Im hoping that Temple gets some respect by the polls if they beat Seton Hall this weekend. They have a good resume this early in the season...wins against Sienna, Penn St., Nova, and Virginia Tech...with respectable losses on the road against two good Big East schools GTown and St. John's...with an overall record of 8-2, 8th ranked SOS, and 6th in the RPIs...I know they dont win in great fashion but their defense is something to watch...they have to crack the polls if they win at Seton Hall...

Since: Feb 8, 2007
Posted on: December 14, 2009 9:05 pm

The Poll Attacks

You could use the same argument in your poll in which you have Connecticut ranked ahead of Dayton. Connecticut has lost to both ranked teams they have played with arguably no good wins unless you want to count LSU( I wouldn't). It's funny how you like to spin things regarding some teams but don't apply the same logic to all teams. Obviously Connecticut is better than Dayton but so is Washington, whether either team has shown thus far is debatable. I see no problem with Washington being ranked ahead of Dayton. I would argue that UConn's losses -- to No. 3 Kentucky and No. 7 Duke -- are a little better than Dayton's losses and Washington's losses, and that UConn's win over William & Mary (don't laugh; William & Mary has beaten VCU and Wake Forest) is better than any of Washington's wins, though obviously not as good as Dayton's win over Georgia Tech.

So I think I can justify UConn over Dayton and Washington without contradicting myself.

But either way, you make a good counterargument.

I can appreciate people who make sense.

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