Blog Entry

The Poll Attacks

Posted on: December 28, 2009 6:41 pm

Don't ever let anybody tell you the Poll Attacks aren't working.

Because they're working.

Pitt got zero votes this week.

I made that happen.

Now let's see what this week's Poll Attacks can get done.

AP poll: God bless you, Roger Clarkson from the Athens Banner-Herald . You are hard-headed, no doubt. But you finally came around and dropped Pittsburgh from your ballot, and you are to be applauded on this Monday. Sure, it took three weeks of Poll Attacks to make it happen, the last of which was vicious. And, yes, I think it's hilarious that the week you finally decided to remove Pitt is the week in which the Panthers beat Ohio 74-49. But that's beside the point. The point is that you listened, and that the Poll Attacks are working. And this must be how people feel when they help the less fortunate around the holidays. Like them, I now know that I'm making a difference in this world. It's a proud day for both me and this blog. See how I'm smiling in that picture up there? That's how I'm smiling right now. With tears of joy in my eyes.

Coaches poll: One of the things I hate about rankings is how teams are dropped when they lose road games to higher-ranked teams. It makes no sense. I mean, why should a team ranked No. 9 go win on the homecourt of the team ranked No. 2? Answer: It shouldn't. And it shouldn't be penalized when it doesn't (unless it's an absolute massacre), which brings me to Michigan State.

The Spartans were ranked No. 9 in the Coaches poll last week.

Then they went and lost 79-68 at No. 2 Texas.

And so the voters processed that information and decided to drop Michigan State from No. 9 to No. 11.


Why penalize a team for playing tough non-league road games?

If anything, we should reward teams for playing tough non-league road games.

Meantime, Connecticut moved from No. 11 to No. 10 thanks to wins over Maine and Iona because voters decided in that last week that UConn deserves to be ranked higher than Michigan State because UConn beat Maine and Iona while Michigan State failed to upset a Texas team that got three No. 1 votes. It's crazy. Switch the schedules, and it's safe to assume Michigan State would've moved up with meaningless wins over Maine and Iona while UConn dropped after a loss at Texas, and that means voters are ranking teams based on nothing more than scheduling philosophies, which is wrong.

Again, it's wrong to penalize teams for losing games they should lose.

That's why I didn't drop Ole Miss for losing at West Virginia.

That's why I didn't drop Michigan State for losing at Texas.

That's why the Coaches poll makes me crazy.

Since: Apr 5, 2009
Posted on: December 29, 2009 2:48 pm

The Poll Attacks

You're missing the key point in your own comment:  they're playing withOUT Turner.  They should be commended for how they've held it together without him on the floor, and they're still a talented team, but without Evan Turner they are not a top 20 team.  If they get him back they have a shot to battle it out with MSU and Purdue.  Without him, OSU is the slow kid in the title race.  Just the way it is. 

Since: Dec 3, 2006
Posted on: December 29, 2009 12:54 pm

The Poll Attacks

In my humble opinion, neither Mich. St. nor Nor. Car. belong in the Top 10, due to their multiple losses. If they belong there as the season progreses, then let them earn their way back in. As far as dropping Pittsburgh, a bit untimely as they proceed to win their Big East opener and progress to BEAT DOWN  Top 5 Syr.

Since: Sep 14, 2009
Posted on: December 29, 2009 10:15 am

The Poll Attacks

My Top 25 - December 28th, 2009

1. Kansas
2. Texas
3. Kentucky
4. Purdue
5. Syracuse
6. West Virginia
7. Duke
8. UConn
9. North Carolina
10. Villanova
11. Michigan State
12. Kansas State
13. Miami (Fla.)
14. Georgetown
15. Mississippi
16. Tennessee
17. Temple
18. Clemson
19. UAB
20. Washington
21. California
22. Mississippi State
23. Wisconsin
24. Brigham Young
25. New Mexico

Since: Mar 23, 2007
Posted on: December 29, 2009 7:22 am

Flawed Logic

So by your accounts:

Lower ranked team loses on the road to higher ranked team=no drop in the polls
Higher ranked team wins at home over lower ranked team=no raise in polls

Theorem is then; A higher ranked team will never make any difference by beating a lower ranked team and thus, not rewarded.
A lower ranked team who may lose two or three on the road to a higher ranked team not dislodged from their ranking.

You stated Texas received three number 1 votes, by your logic, the votes they received are meaningless as they didn't have three previous No.1 votes.  Therefore, your statement is meaningless.

You didn't punish MSU for losing and Texas' three No.1 votes are not a reward.  Thus; flawed logic.

We all know you mean to reward Texas by stating (and the reception of) received votes, but since we no longer punish, and we no longer reward, your statement is futile and worthless.

You MUST penalize teams that lose games they should lose as they are not as good as the team they are playing and maybe not as good as several teams ranked ahead of them.

You MUST reward wins when teams win games they should as they are PROVING they are better than both the team they just beat and all the ranked teams between the two teams rankings.  That's how rankings work.  That is why we have a "received votes" column.  One team is better than another.  It's proven on the floor.

You either wipe all rankings and "votes" aside, as they are subjective, or you rank, punish and reward. 

Since: Dec 28, 2009
Posted on: December 29, 2009 1:36 am

The Poll Attacks

The OSU and MSU resumes aren't all that dissimilar at this point, to be sure. But there is absolutely no shame in losing close games to UNC or Texas on the road, and I agree with Parrish that a team should not be punished for losing close games to excellent teams on the road. The Florida loss is a bit more disconcerting after the sudden slump the Gators have gone into, which is why I'd probably have MSU a couple of spots lower. (Same could be said of OSU's loss to Butler, for that matter. Butler is just 8-4.) But OSU definitely belongs behind MSU for the moment, and you just pointed out why: Turner is out. When he comes back, they'll be near the same level. But the OSU team on the court right now is not the OSU team that has managed to pull off their moderately impressive wins (Cal hasn't beaten anyone with a pulse, FSU has a couple decent wins but has had to scratch and claw their way past several mediocre teams).

On top of that, OSU's SOS (as ranked by Pomeroy): 326. MSU's: 151. That's why OSU has fewer losses.

Since: Aug 26, 2006
Posted on: December 29, 2009 12:35 am

The Poll Attacks

Mizzou probably doesn't deserve any votes at this point in the season.  Illinois really isn't that good (one good win over Clemson, four losses), and a win over them doesn't make up for their losses against Vanderbilt, Oral Roberts, and Richmond.  I think your point shouldn't be that Missouri does deserve votes, but that Illinois doesn't deserve votes.  It's a shame that some voters don't realize that Bill Self doesn't coach them anymore, and it's Jeff Jordan that plays for them...not Michael.

Since: Aug 22, 2006
Posted on: December 28, 2009 11:34 pm

The Poll Attacks

Still trying to figure out how he has a 3 loss Michigan State team ranked at 9, but Parrish has a 2 loss Ohio State team ranked 24th...His infatuation with Michigan State is obvious...Michigan State has losses to Florida, North carolina, and Texas..Should this great Michigan State team beat one of those teams..and dont forget the unimpressive wins over Wofford and The Citadel... 

Ohio State has losses against the same North Carolina team, and at a very good Butler...They are playing without their point guard Turner.. to be ranked 15 spots behind Michigan State because they went and lost at Texas is like giving the slow kid an A for effort even though he failed...

Since: Jan 26, 2009
Posted on: December 28, 2009 11:11 pm

The Poll Attacks

Gary, any reason why BYU is not ranked besides your obvious answer of because of their body of work. I believe you had them ranked at one point this season. BYU definitely has top 15 talent and most likely will not have more than 3 to 4 loses by the end of the year. They have double digit wins against Nebraska and Arizona St. and only one loss to a pretty good Utah St. team on the road. As other top 25 teams suffer loses in conference play BYU will easily move into the top 15 by the end of the regular season. Why not just rank a 12-1 BYU team based on their talent and not on their schedule.

Since: Jan 16, 2007
Posted on: December 28, 2009 9:20 pm

The Poll Attacks

MSU was probably ranked too high right now.  Some realized that, and moved them down.  10 vs 11 is no big deal, UConn and MSU are two of the best programs this decade and will both be h*** to deal with in March.

Since: Mar 4, 2007
Posted on: December 28, 2009 8:52 pm

The Poll Attacks

mizzu got what they deserve

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