Blog Entry

The Poll Attacks

Posted on: January 11, 2010 8:01 pm
Edited on: January 11, 2010 8:12 pm

Purdue slipped from fourth to sixth in the latest rankings.

But don't worry, Boilermaker fans, I've got your back.

(Seriously, I've got your back on this.)

Let's Poll Attack!

AP poll: I learned my lesson about constantly picking on one voter when I focused three weeks of Poll Attacks on Roger Clarkson's decision to rank Pitt. As you know, Pitt has since proved to be awesome. Which made me look stupid (even though I was right at the time I was filing the Poll Attacks , but I digress). Anyway, I subsequently decided to spread the Poll Attacks around, be an equal opportunity basher of AP voters. And I'm telling you that because I know this is going to look like I'm targeting Gary Horowitz from Oregon again, but that really wasn't my intent.

Honest to God, all I did was look at the AP poll.

I saw somebody ranked Florida.

And I said, "Who the %$&# ranked Florida?"

Naturally, I looked.

And when I saw it was Gary Horowitz, I just shook my head.

Yes, the same guy who ranked Oregon last week ranked Florida this week, and this one might actually make less sense. Florida is 11-4 with two good wins (Michigan State on a neutral and Florida State at home), one reasonable loss (Syracuse on a neutral), one somewhat reasonable loss (at Vanderbilt), and two terrible losses (Richmond on a neutral and South Alabama at home). Beyond that, the Gators needed a 75-foot shot to beat N.C. State, and the loss to Vanderbilt just happened. So I'm not sure how that body of work is worthy of a Top 25 vote.

Is Florida terrible?

Absolutely not.

But there are plenty of teams not on Horowitz's ballot that should be considered before Florida.

Like Vanderbilt, for starters.

That said, I won't be surprised if Florida beats Kentucky Tuesday night.

Please, make note of that.

But that's Tuesday night, and this is Monday.

And it's difficult to justify ranking Florida on this Monday with that body of work.

(UPDATE: The worst part of this, I just noticed, is that Horowitz didn't rank Florida last week. So when the Gators were 11-3, he had them unranked. But when they dropped to 11-4 with a loss at Vanderbilt, he decided to rank them 24th. Again, Florida entered his ballot after a loss at Vanderbilt, and nothing else. Yes, that really happened. Yes, this is why I do the Poll Attacks .)

Coaches poll: I might never know how I got so crossed with Purdue fans, and I'm not sure they're ever going to understand me any more than I understand them on the subject of whether Purdue has the roster necessary to win a national title. At this point, I'm fine with agreeing to disagree because, honestly, I'm just tired.

But before I take a nap please allow me to -- ready for this? -- defend Purdue.

(Come back to me, Boilermaker fans!)

No way should Purdue have dropped from fourth to sixth in the Coaches poll for losing at Wisconsin.

Almost everybody loses at Wisconsin.

So why should the Boilermakers be punished for not winning at a place nearly everybody loses, particularly when you look at their entire body of work? To date, Purdue has wins over No. 9 West Virginia, No. 10 Tennessee, Wake Forest (receiving votes) and Minnesota (receiving votes). You know how many wins over Top 10 teams Villanova has? Zero. You know how many wins over Top 10 teams Syracuse has? Zero. And Villanova's one loss (at Temple) is clearly worse than Purdue's one loss (at Wisconsin), just like Syracuse's one lloss (at home to Pittsburgh) is clearly worse than Purdue's one loss (at Wisconsin).

And yet Villanova and Syracuse are ranked ahead of Purdue.

Makes no sense.

In all seriousness, you could make the case that, based on body of work, Purdue should actually be ranked ahead of Kansas, too. But I'm not about to start that debate. Like I said, I'm tired.

Since: May 20, 2008
Posted on: January 12, 2010 6:49 pm

The Poll Attacks

And as a non "general" basketball fan, you can honestly say that top to bottom the Big 10 is a better conference that the Big Beast?  Get real man.  There is so much talent to go around in the Big East that a team like Marquette or Cinci can go real deep in the tourney even if they have a so-so conference record.  And I didn't say that Michigan was a better team than Purdue but I have watched two of their games and know enough about basketball that these kids will get up for a big game.  So why don't you educate yourself- look at the talent in the Big East buddy- Reynolds, Butler, ,Stephenson (aka born ready), Samuels, Monroe or Heyward vs any starting 5 from the Big Ten ANY DAY man.

Looks like you need to re evaluate your basketball knowledge and watch some games

Ding-ding we have a winner. Someone who clearly doesn't read everything posted before responding. I gave plenty of props to Reynolds and the BigEast. I even said Villinova was good, and they are one of the few teams in the Big East I can even stand outside of Lville who wasn't originally in the BE.

PLUS, I have to know.... seriously where the heck did I once say the Big10 was better/deeper then the Big East????? Come on point it out to me, because noooooooooooo where in my message did I say this. I think the BigEast definitly has the deepest conference in the nation. And, why shouldn't they. With only 20 some odd teams it is kind of hard not to have at least 7 to 9 tourny worthy teams. I mean you are basically 2 full conferences. Do I think if the ACC, Big12, and Big10 had the amount of teams your conference does would it be just as deep..... YES!!!

If your not going to read everything I say before posting I wash my hands of you!


Since: Oct 3, 2006
Posted on: January 12, 2010 6:24 pm

The Poll Attacks


If you want to see something really goofy, check out Jack Bogaczyk of the Charleston Daily Mail.  He has Tennessee at #4 and Purdue, who beat them earlier this year at #9.  That's just silly.

And then there is Ron Morris of The State, who has Purdue at #4 (which I like) and Wisconsin at #23.  Mark McCarter of the Huntsville Times has Purdue at #5 and Wisky at #23.  It's like they don't even check the results before filling out their polls. 

As others have said, I don't really care that Purdue is #6 vs. #4.  If they play like they are capable through the Big Ten slate, they'll be on the one or two line in the bracket and have the blend of coaching, experience and talent to make a run.  All the way?  Who knows.  But I'm looking forward to seeing them try. 

Since: Dec 4, 2008
Posted on: January 12, 2010 6:22 pm

The Poll Attacks

As a Jayhwawks fan, I agree with you that Purdue should be ahead of Kansas even with the loss to Wisconsin. Road games AT Wisconsin are where ranked teams go to die. I also, as much as it pains me to say this, think that Syracuse should be above the Jayhawks based on the body of work...Syracuse has beaten 3 teams that the Jayhawks beat and KU hasn't yet beaten a team as good as UNC or UNC. Sorry Nova but the loss to Temple (and Kansas' resounding W) keeps my Jayhawks ahead of you. So my top 6 would be:

1. Texas
2. Kentucky
3. Purdue
4. Syracuse
5. Kansas
6. Villanova

Since: Nov 25, 2009
Posted on: January 12, 2010 4:54 pm

The Poll Attacks

I would like to wonder how UNC isn't included in this article but Florida and Oregon are.   They started out the season in the top 5 and now are still number 12 despite losing to College of Charleston.  The only good teams they have played all season beat them.  The only game UNC won worthy of being called a "good win" was against Michigan State.  Other than that, UNC has fed up on cupcakes like Central Carolina and Valparaiso.

Since: Mar 4, 2008
Posted on: January 12, 2010 4:29 pm

The Poll Attacks

Gonzaga is in everyone's top 20, but is their record any better than Florirda's?  They have good wins on neutral courts (Cincinnatti, Wisconsin); only 3 losses (instead of four), including a "good loss" (on the road at Michigan State by two, after leading most of the way); and no bad losses (worst loss was to Wake Forrest at home, but getting crushed by Duke at Madison Square Gardens felt worse).  That seems awfully Florida-like to me.  I guess GU does not have an equivalent to the home loss to South Alabama, but will that matter come tournament time?  Does anyone think Florida is not better than South Alabama?  Florida had an off night, and even as a Gonzaga-homer (and alum), I'm not sure GU is better than FLorida right now.  I also think there are about 10 teams in the top 25 with similar resumes.  Pollls are inherently silly - that's why we have a tournament.

Since: Nov 16, 2008
Posted on: January 12, 2010 3:20 pm

The Poll Attacks

Gary...Another reminder to check out Ed Graney of the Las Vegas Review Journal.  This guy is a real piece of work.  This week he put UNC in his poll, not at the normal 12-20, but at a STAGGERING #6.  How can any voter who watches CBB think that UNC is the #6 team in the same week they gagged a game against college of Charleston?  And this guy is in tune with CBB because he often writes articles on UNLV Basketball.  I don't get it!  Just a matter of time before this guy gets the Parrish Hammer!

Since: Jan 14, 2008
Posted on: January 12, 2010 2:28 pm

The Poll Attacks

First off, I agree the rankings dont really matter and especially at this time of the year.  But to compare Purdue dropping to spots to Kansas dropping 2 spots is completely different.  Kansas dropped 2 spots to move below 2 undefeated teams.  Purdue dropped 2 spots below teams with 1 lose.  Which would be understandable if Purdue hadnt played a tougher schedule and already beaten 2 top 10 teams.

Plus Kansas went on the road to play a #16 Tenn team that was missing 4 players (including their leading scorer).  A team that Purdue beat when they had the entire team.

Since: Mar 18, 2009
Posted on: January 12, 2010 2:01 pm

The Poll Attacks

So why don't you educate yourself- look at the talent in the Big East buddy- Reynolds, Butler, ,Stephenson (aka born ready), Samuels, Monroe or Heyward vs any starting 5 from the Big Ten ANY DAY man.

Although I do love Kalin Lucas' style- he's a hustler.  I def think he'd fit in a Big East style of play a lot more than Big 10 ball, but I also understand he is from MI... oh well

PS as a broader statement- and also to the point the dude made about not watching games- I watch a lot of games... pullin for BC to take the upset over Duke tonight (which won't happen) but I think that generally Big East basketball is a more quick pace exciting game than most conferences right now (SEC is pretty fun to watch, then prob ACC).  But generally, the teams are a lot closer talent wise and push the ball

Since: Oct 28, 2008
Posted on: January 12, 2010 1:58 pm

Florida's terrible losses???

Florida has..."one reasonable loss (Syracuse on a neutral), one somewhat reasonable loss (at Vanderbilt), and two terrible losses (Richmond on a neutral and South Alabama at home)."

as of today...

Richmond (RPI-24, SOS 36)
South Alabama (RPI-198, SOS 289)

Really Gary?  Richmond, terrible loss?  Really, did you put them in the same category as South Alabama?  Really?  The research is easy, easy!!  You should try it sometime.

Interestingly, Vanderbilt has an RPI of 26 and and SOS of 30, but somehow that is a "somewhat reasonable loss".

If Florida is going to be left out of the top 25 because of bad losses than we are still waiting for a 2nd bad loss.

PS I'm not a Gator fan, just an observant college basketball enthusiast, and also I do follow and root for the A10, so I guess I could be bias but I don't think the evidence lies.  Richmond is not a terrible loss or even a bad one.

Since: Mar 18, 2009
Posted on: January 12, 2010 1:52 pm

The Poll Attacks

'When Purdue's basketball team loses in the Sweet 16 again, at least we'll be able to look back to a time in January when we were in the top 5.  How cool was that!  And then, the following Monday, we'll be back in the office listening to some idiot remind us that IU has 5 more championships than Purdue."

What a joker you are.  If I were another Purdue fan I would be ashamed of your comments.  That's great and all that you live in the middle of no where and get, as you say, "giddy" over a national ranking, but a true fan doesn't care about rankings, they care about championships and conference titles.  I would take Nova being unranked right now and winning the big east tourney over being ranked at all.  Purdue could blank the rest of the year (and in no way am I saying they will, but I do think they will drop severly) and could finished unranked without a NCAA tourney bid- and you would be happy they are ranked in the top #5 in January?  Ok, well go ahead and do that because that is doesn't make any sense to me... Shows how much your non "general" fans know about Purdue basketball

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