Blog Entry

The Poll Attacks

Posted on: January 11, 2010 8:01 pm
Edited on: January 11, 2010 8:12 pm
 

Purdue slipped from fourth to sixth in the latest rankings.

But don't worry, Boilermaker fans, I've got your back.

(Seriously, I've got your back on this.)

Let's Poll Attack!

AP poll: I learned my lesson about constantly picking on one voter when I focused three weeks of Poll Attacks on Roger Clarkson's decision to rank Pitt. As you know, Pitt has since proved to be awesome. Which made me look stupid (even though I was right at the time I was filing the Poll Attacks , but I digress). Anyway, I subsequently decided to spread the Poll Attacks around, be an equal opportunity basher of AP voters. And I'm telling you that because I know this is going to look like I'm targeting Gary Horowitz from Oregon again, but that really wasn't my intent.

Honest to God, all I did was look at the AP poll.

I saw somebody ranked Florida.

And I said, "Who the %$&# ranked Florida?"

Naturally, I looked.

And when I saw it was Gary Horowitz, I just shook my head.

Yes, the same guy who ranked Oregon last week ranked Florida this week, and this one might actually make less sense. Florida is 11-4 with two good wins (Michigan State on a neutral and Florida State at home), one reasonable loss (Syracuse on a neutral), one somewhat reasonable loss (at Vanderbilt), and two terrible losses (Richmond on a neutral and South Alabama at home). Beyond that, the Gators needed a 75-foot shot to beat N.C. State, and the loss to Vanderbilt just happened. So I'm not sure how that body of work is worthy of a Top 25 vote.

Is Florida terrible?

Absolutely not.

But there are plenty of teams not on Horowitz's ballot that should be considered before Florida.

Like Vanderbilt, for starters.

That said, I won't be surprised if Florida beats Kentucky Tuesday night.

Please, make note of that.

But that's Tuesday night, and this is Monday.

And it's difficult to justify ranking Florida on this Monday with that body of work.

(UPDATE: The worst part of this, I just noticed, is that Horowitz didn't rank Florida last week. So when the Gators were 11-3, he had them unranked. But when they dropped to 11-4 with a loss at Vanderbilt, he decided to rank them 24th. Again, Florida entered his ballot after a loss at Vanderbilt, and nothing else. Yes, that really happened. Yes, this is why I do the Poll Attacks .)

Coaches poll: I might never know how I got so crossed with Purdue fans, and I'm not sure they're ever going to understand me any more than I understand them on the subject of whether Purdue has the roster necessary to win a national title. At this point, I'm fine with agreeing to disagree because, honestly, I'm just tired.

But before I take a nap please allow me to -- ready for this? -- defend Purdue.

(Come back to me, Boilermaker fans!)

No way should Purdue have dropped from fourth to sixth in the Coaches poll for losing at Wisconsin.

Almost everybody loses at Wisconsin.

So why should the Boilermakers be punished for not winning at a place nearly everybody loses, particularly when you look at their entire body of work? To date, Purdue has wins over No. 9 West Virginia, No. 10 Tennessee, Wake Forest (receiving votes) and Minnesota (receiving votes). You know how many wins over Top 10 teams Villanova has? Zero. You know how many wins over Top 10 teams Syracuse has? Zero. And Villanova's one loss (at Temple) is clearly worse than Purdue's one loss (at Wisconsin), just like Syracuse's one lloss (at home to Pittsburgh) is clearly worse than Purdue's one loss (at Wisconsin).

And yet Villanova and Syracuse are ranked ahead of Purdue.

Makes no sense.

In all seriousness, you could make the case that, based on body of work, Purdue should actually be ranked ahead of Kansas, too. But I'm not about to start that debate. Like I said, I'm tired.
Comments

Since: Mar 18, 2009
Posted on: January 12, 2010 1:46 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

You know in general fans like you make the BigEast look horrible. You have no clue about the big ten, and I'm sure you haven't watched a single game with them playing this year. By the way bragging over Minn is nothing, I think I'm more proud of beating down West Virginia. I'm not sure who attacked Villinova, but I think they are a great team. S Reynolds is a beast and can lead his team to a win agaisnt anyone. I've thought all year they were the best in the BigEast, but I would have still loved Lville beating them last night (can't help but love the upset). If you are going to try and bash teams in a different conference try getting a clue about there teams would you? MSU is a great team and I bet Purdue does lose to them once this year. I wouldn't be surprised if Purdue lost a handful of games on the road because of the quality teams in the Bigten. And while I can live with people saying Wisconsin and MSU are better then Purdue (I would say eqauls at this point even though with Wisconsin losing one of their big men it hurts them a little) saying Northwestern and Michigan are better teams is just a lack of knowledge. I think Michigan could probably beat Purdue at Michigan, but I still say it's slim. Same goes for Northwestern. And, how the heck did Illinois come up in your discussion at the end? The best teams are Purdue, MSU, WIS, OSU (with Turner back), and it's really a toss up for the rest with IU more then likely pulling up the rear. So, please I beg you!!!! Educate yourself before posting about others.

General Fans?  Dude, I get the Big 10 network as well as FSN and CBS Sportsnet and CSTV.  I am actually a PSU fan and my girlfriend graduated from MSU so I get to watch a fair amount of Big 10 basketball.  Just as I watch a lot of ACC ball as well as Pac 10 and the rest of college ball because I am a big fan.  Not really sure why you think I am such a general fan but ok... All I am saying is that all these Boilermakers fans are getting all hyped up and it is January 12.  There is still a lot of ball to be played- and they are crying about why Nova is #4 in the rankings.  I said why- better team last year, better recruiting class, and better coach.  Not sayin that anyone will finish where they are at- especially with the teams that Nova is going to have to play in their conference schedule... but I think the Big 10 is an easier schedule to play than the Big East schedule.

And as a non "general" basketball fan, you can honestly say that top to bottom the Big 10 is a better conference that the Big Beast?  Get real man.  There is so much talent to go around in the Big East that a team like Marquette or Cinci can go real deep in the tourney even if they have a so-so conference record.  And I didn't say that Michigan was a better team than Purdue but I have watched two of their games and know enough about basketball that these kids will get up for a big game.  So why don't you educate yourself- look at the talent in the Big East buddy- Reynolds, Butler, ,Stephenson (aka born ready), Samuels, Monroe or Heyward vs any starting 5 from the Big Ten ANY DAY man.

Looks like you need to re evaluate your basketball knowledge and watch some games



Since: Jul 14, 2007
Posted on: January 12, 2010 12:51 pm
 

Defending Syracuse

I'm going to step up and defend Syracuse's ranking. First of all, when Syracuse took Cal apart like a poorly designed Lego house, Cal was ranked #13. Syracuse then completely dismantled UNC when the heels were ranked, I believe, #5. Let me repeat: neither of these games was close. This is the same UNC team, mind you, that remained at #9 in the poll even after a loss to Texas on a neutral court, albeit a neutral court in the state of Texas. A few weeks later, Syracuse went to the state of Florida and ripped #10 Florida. Are the Gators great? Probably not, but that's a good road win just the same. Syracuse most recently won a conference road game vs. Seton Hall and then, after falling to Pitt, responded with another good win vs. Memphis. Syracuse's margin of victory in games vs. other BCS teams not in its conference is 17. That's ridiculous. Yes, they lost to Pitt in a game they should've won. It happens. But, to discount five very solid wins on account of one bad loss isn't fair.



Since: Sep 19, 2007
Posted on: January 12, 2010 12:48 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

I'm a Purdue grad and fan.  I haven't seen previous comments from PU fans attacking you, but since you said you don't understand it, may I make an observation.  We're an extremely frustrated bunch.  We know we have history against us when it comes to the NCAA tournament.  Maybe now that Keady is gone, we have a shot at making a run, but like I said, history is against us.

The Indianapolis press is against us and favors IU, as does the majority of basketball fans in Indiana, from those who actually attended IU to those who pump your gas and flip your burgers.  Indiana sports fans in general love a winner, as can quickly be gleaned when you ask someone what college they root for and almost w/o exception hear "well, I root for IU basketball and Notre Dame football"  "Why not other way around - IU football and Notre Dame basketball?", I've tried asking.  I get looks in return that seem to indicate I suddendly started speaking Swahili.

Purdue fans, even in the home state inwhich Purdue is located, are a downtrodden bunch.  When one of their teams finds itself ranked in a college poll, we get giddy.  Look, national recognition, we shout.  So, when someone questions the validity of a ranking, we take it personally.  How dare you pee in our Wheaties, ick our wow, deny us this one bit of dignity.

When Purdue's basketball team loses in the Sweet 16 again, at least we'll be able to look back to a time in January when we were in the top 5.  How cool was that!  And then, the following Monday, we'll be back in the office listening to some idiot remind us that IU has 5 more championships than Purdue.



Since: May 20, 2008
Posted on: January 12, 2010 12:45 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

I can not wait to check back in with you in a month after Purdue loses 4 outa their next 7... MSU is a better team, Wisco will beat you again, Northwestern is a better team and Michigan can beat you as well.  Get off your high horse over a couple wins over Minn. and Tenn.  Yes the Tenn. game is a big win but in no way is Purdue going to be able to keep this run going throughout the year.  If you were smart you would stop bein such a homer and sit back and enjoy that they are playing well and continue doing so because it is real early in the year and there is a long ways to go.  And stop bashing Nova- they made the final four last year and came back with one of the best recruiting classes in college basketball and have one of the best coaches in the NCAA- that is why they are ranked where they are ranked.  And don't worry about Nova's strength of schedule since it entails Cinci, UConn, Gtown, Syracuse, and Pitt so quick your whining.  The Big 10 sucks!  Yeh, JaJaun Johnson is really taking the Boilermakers to the promiseland pshhh... Face it, MSU, Michigan and Illinois have had Purdue's number forever and they will again next year.  Let's see if your still runnin your mouth in March


You know in general fans like you make the BigEast look horrible. You have no clue about the big ten, and I'm sure you haven't watched a single game with them playing this year. By the way bragging over Minn is nothing, I think I'm more proud of beating down West Virginia. I'm not sure who attacked Villinova, but I think they are a great team. S Reynolds is a beast and can lead his team to a win agaisnt anyone. I've thought all year they were the best in the BigEast, but I would have still loved Lville beating them last night (can't help but love the upset). If you are going to try and bash teams in a different conference try getting a clue about there teams would you? MSU is a great team and I bet Purdue does lose to them once this year. I wouldn't be surprised if Purdue lost a handful of games on the road because of the quality teams in the Bigten. And while I can live with people saying Wisconsin and MSU are better then Purdue (I would say eqauls at this point even though with Wisconsin losing one of their big men it hurts them a little) saying Northwestern and Michigan are better teams is just a lack of knowledge. I think Michigan could probably beat Purdue at Michigan, but I still say it's slim. Same goes for Northwestern. And, how the heck did Illinois come up in your discussion at the end? The best teams are Purdue, MSU, WIS, OSU (with Turner back), and it's really a toss up for the rest with IU more then likely pulling up the rear. So, please I beg you!!!! Educate yourself before posting about others.




Since: May 20, 2008
Posted on: January 12, 2010 12:31 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

I actually appreciate you defending Purdue in the rankings. And, I do not disagree they should be a head of the teams you mentioned. However, I think it was just natural they fell a couple of spots by losing because that's just the way it goes in rankings. If you lose you drop, period. I guess it all has to do with timing.

My main question, and hopefully you aren't to tired to answer this. How did Syracuse only fall 2 spots when losing to Pittsburgh at their home court? I mean this was the only thing that has confused me all year in the polls. They lost to a non-ranked team at home, and quite handly too.

Of course it doesn't really matter. I did see the 4 projected number 1's right now are Texas, Kentucky, Purdue, and Syracuse. This was very interesting to me since neither Syracuse nor Purdue are projected to be the respective champs in their conference. Do you find this odd?

Grizz



Since: Dec 31, 2009
Posted on: January 12, 2010 11:46 am
 

The Poll Attacks

I'm not at all surprised that Kansas lost to Tennessee - especially in Knoxville. Kansas, in my mind, has been a little shaky, having to rely too much on yourger players whose inconsistency is ... too consistent. Aldrich and Collins are strictly top of the line, but need more dependable help. Kentucky and Texas have both looked consistently much better to me than the Jayhawks. Even though, Kentucky also relies a great deal on "youngsters," those youngsters would be starting and even starring on NBA teams right now, and James, for the Horns, has as much ability to take over a game single-handedly as anyone in the country. KU could definitely be there at the end, but for right now, you've got to pick between Texas and Kentucky.




Since: Mar 18, 2009
Posted on: January 12, 2010 11:20 am
 

The Poll Attacks

I can not wait to check back in with you in a month after Purdue loses 4 outa their next 7... MSU is a better team, Wisco will beat you again, Northwestern is a better team and Michigan can beat you as well.  Get off your high horse over a couple wins over Minn. and Tenn.  Yes the Tenn. game is a big win but in no way is Purdue going to be able to keep this run going throughout the year.  If you were smart you would stop bein such a homer and sit back and enjoy that they are playing well and continue doing so because it is real early in the year and there is a long ways to go.  And stop bashing Nova- they made the final four last year and came back with one of the best recruiting classes in college basketball and have one of the best coaches in the NCAA- that is why they are ranked where they are ranked.  And don't worry about Nova's strength of schedule since it entails Cinci, UConn, Gtown, Syracuse, and Pitt so quick your whining.  The Big 10 sucks!  Yeh, JaJaun Johnson is really taking the Boilermakers to the promiseland pshhh... Face it, MSU, Michigan and Illinois have had Purdue's number forever and they will again next year.  Let's see if your still runnin your mouth in March



Since: Dec 9, 2008
Posted on: January 12, 2010 11:17 am
 

The Poll Attacks

Honestly, the AP and Coaches polls really dont matter right now.  Teams are still going to play their games regardless of ranking and in the end teams will get the ranking they deserve (or somewhat close). Villanova and Syracuse probably got the nod over purdue because of the Big East bias. And even if this was March and the rankings were screwed up, all of the top 25 teams, always are lnjected into the tournament so the only thing ranking might affect is seeding. So really there is no reason to worry about polls this early in the season



Since: Apr 21, 2007
Posted on: January 12, 2010 11:10 am
 

The Poll Attacks

I agree that does not make sense but thats the nature of polls and how they have always worked.  You have a range of rankings that you belong in based on your resume that overlaps with teams that have better and worse resumes and also better and worse teams. Then you are placed within that range based on what you have done for me lately.  The lately doesn't take into effect who you beat or lost to or where you played, just what your record has been the last week or two.  Sucks and I disagree with it, but thats just the way it is, always has been and always will be.  
For that reason I think Parrish is sort of grasping at straws on this one.  Hes seen enough and been around long enough to know how the polls work. 



Since: Feb 26, 2008
Posted on: January 12, 2010 11:08 am
 

The Poll Attacks

Definitely a spirted debate from fans on all sides of the issue. I think the one thing we can all agree on is that these arguments will be sorted come March, on the court, where they should be!



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