Blog Entry

The Poll Attacks

Posted on: February 22, 2010 4:37 pm
 

The same guy giving Mississippi State points has Duke ranked 12th.

He's a perfect target for the Poll Attacks .

AP poll: The only school receiving points in the AP poll that isn't also in Jerry Palm's latest Projecting the Field is Mississippi State. The Bulldogs got five points, and I had to know who gave those five points to them. So I did some investigating and discovered it was Ron Morris of The State newspaper in South Carolina. But when I saw his ballot I forgot about Mississippi State pretty quickly, because the Bulldogs' presence wasn't even the dumbest thing there.

The dumbest thing on Ron's ballot was Duke all the way down at No. 12.

Seriously?

Duke at No. 12?

Look, I admit, there are lots of ways to rank teams. You can rank with an emphasis on recent performances, rank using entire bodies of work, rank with your eyes, etc. But there's no way to rank teams that could lead to any reasonable human having Duke 12th.
The Blue Devils are 23-4 and in possession of the nation's second-best RPI. They're leading the ACC, they have NINE wins over projected NCAA tournament teams -- Gonzaga, Charlotte, Clemson (twice), Wake Forest, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Maryland and Virginia Tech -- and only one loss to a team not projected to make the NCAA tournament (North Carolina State). All four losses came on the road. And yet Ron has Duke two spots behind Michigan State, a team with seven losses and just THREE wins over projected NCAA tournament teams.

I'd love to hear the explanation for that.

Coaches poll: Nobody loves Butler more than I love Butler.

I love the tradition, Hinkle Fieldhouse, Brad Stevens, the type of student-athletes on the roster, Gordon Hayward, the Bulldog mascot, and even Indianapolis ... or at least I favor Indianapolis over Detroit as a Final Four destination. Again, I heart Butler. But the Bulldogs' body of work is ho-hum at best, which is why their No. 10 ranking in the coaches poll is ridiculous.

Butler has topped exactly two teams (Ohio State and Xavier) good enough to earn at-large bids to the NCAA tournament, and the win over OSU came while Evan Turner had a broken back. In fact, Butler is just 2-2 against schools included in Jerry Palm's latest Projecting the Field thanks to wins over Siena and Ohio State (minus Turner, I can't remind you enough) and losses to Clemson and Georgetown. The Bulldogs have additional losses to Minnesota and UAB. So how that translates to a Top 10 ranking is one of the week's great mysteries.

It reminds me of Memphis last season.

The Tigers struggled in the non-league part of their schedule -- lost to Xavier, Georgetown and Syracuse -- and were unranked when league play began. Then they ran through a bad C-USA, stacked wins and moved up the rankings in an undeserving manner before Missouri ran them off the court in the Sweet 16. This is exactly the same. Butler was unranked heading into its first Horizon League game, but the Bulldogs have defeated one bad team after another and similarly moved up the rankings in an undeserving manner.

Simply put, Butler's ranking doesn't match Butler's accomplishments.

I like the team.

And, for what it's worth, I think this Butler team is better than last year's Memphis team.

But 10th in the country with that body of work is way too high.

I have the Bulldogs 22nd.

That's closer to accurate.
Comments

Since: Dec 4, 2008
Posted on: February 22, 2010 10:23 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Keep in mind that Pitt has only lost 2 games with Jermaine Dixon in the lineup. Pitt had Texas on the ropes early in the season without Dixon or Gilbert Brown playing. The 4 losses recently the only real bad one is Seton Hall because, South Florida isn't that bad. The coaches poll shouldn't even get a mention. Uconn beat WVU tonight fairly easy and they lead most of the way.



Since: Nov 8, 2006
Posted on: February 22, 2010 10:18 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

"The Poll Attacks

Haha what a ridiculous statement! Please do a little research before posting.  Pitt lost to IU without Dixon and Brown.

PITT is the only team in the nation with 3 wins over top 5 teams.

In fact NO TEAM has done this in 10 years!

Pitt has a much more impressive resume than Kentucky 
;who slides by in a weak SEC "

Tell you what. Haul your rear to Knoxville (as did Kansas) and see what happens. Ditto, Vanderbilt, Georgia, Mississippi State or even South Carolina...not to mention Lexington, Kentucky. Let's see how your band of heros does in those cozy little venues.

I'd just have fun watching the angst after a couple of games in those "friendly confines".




Since: Oct 1, 2009
Posted on: February 22, 2010 10:02 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

I agree people lose to other people. Plus, I will give you that teams lose on the road, but you are not talking the same caliber of teams.  You mention Oral Roberts they are 17-11 and they beat New Mexico at HOME. NC State they beat Duke at HOME. Pitt beat Villanova at HOME. Indiana crushed Pitt at Madison Square Garden on a neutral court. IU is my favorite team (a real fan not some bandwagon fan only when my team is good) and they have nine wins. The only argument you just made that has any relevance is UNC and Ohio State the rest is not relevant since all those losses occurred on the road. You look at Pitt's non-conference schedule and it is not that good. How they have a SOS of 4 is very puzzling.



Since: Oct 1, 2009
Posted on: February 22, 2010 9:53 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

I believe if you look at the box score Dixon did play (about 15 mins) as it was his first game back (so maybe you need to do some research) but IU has won 9 games this year. I agree with teams lose to other teams, but not on a neutral court. It will be funny when Pitt loses in the first or second round of the tournament this season.



Since: Feb 22, 2010
Posted on: February 22, 2010 9:17 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Why should Mizzou be ranked higher than BU?  Because it has a lower RPI (39 vs. 18)?  Because Mizzou lost 2 games to sub-100 RPI teams while BU's worst loss was to Minnesota (RPI 76)?  Maybe its Mizzou's 3-5 record in true road games (BU is 11-1).  Each team is .500 against the top 50, but BU is 8-4 against the top 100 while Mizzou is only 6-5.  And don't try to play the "Mizzou is in a BCS conference and has played a tougher schedule" because it has played more sub-200 teams than BU, 7 to 5.  So...



Since: Sep 12, 2006
Posted on: February 22, 2010 8:21 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Further more, look in the others receiving votes portion of the AP Poll.

Maryland, who is 19-7, has 57 points.

Clemson, also at 19-7, has 1 point.

WHAT!!!???

Clemson has already beaten Maryland this year.  Clemson has 3 losses to Ranked teams, Maryland has 1 loss against a ranked team and lost to William & Mary for crying out loud.

Ok, Maryland is two games higher in the loss column in the ACC.  But Maryland has not played the same caliber teams in conference that Clemson has already played (Clemson played Duke twice already).

I am not saying that Clemson should be ranked.  But they should be getting the same number of votes as a team with the same record, worse losses, and a team that the Tigers already beat head-to-head.

AP voters suck...



Since: Nov 12, 2006
Posted on: February 22, 2010 8:19 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Haha what a ridiculous statement! Please do a little research before posting.  Pitt lost to IU without Dixon and Brown.

PITT is the only team in the nation with 3 wins over top 5 teams.

In fact NO TEAM has done this in 10 years!

Pitt has a much more impressive resume than Kentucky 
;who slides by in a weak SEC 



Since: Feb 8, 2007
Posted on: February 22, 2010 8:19 pm
 

The Poll Attacks


What about your top 25 and 1 where you have Pitt at 10. There is no way that Pitt is a Top Ten team. Any team that loses, or should I say gets dominated by Indiana on a neutral court is NOT a top ten team. What about any team that loses to North Carolina?

Because that happened to Ohio State.

What about any team that loses to N.C. State?

Because that happened to Duke.

What about any team that loses to Oral Roberts?

Because that happened to New Mexico.

And Syracuse and VIllanova actually lost to Pitt.

So what does that mean?

(In other words, people lose games, sometimes even bad games. That alone doesn't make anybody unworthy of a top 10 ranking.)



Since: Oct 1, 2009
Posted on: February 22, 2010 8:14 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

What about your top 25 and 1 where you have Pitt at 10. There is no way that Pitt is a Top Ten team. Any team that loses, or should I say gets dominated by Indiana on a neutral court is NOT a top ten team. Plus if you look at Pitt's non-conference schedule it is a joke so a SOS of 4 is highly questionable. I am not saying Pitt is terrible, but they are not a top ten team. How about top 25? I would give you that. Pitt will not make it into the second weekend of the NCAA tournament.



Since: Aug 28, 2006
Posted on: February 22, 2010 7:13 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Did you somehow miss:

"And yet you still rank Butler ahead of Mizzou.", in large font and bold type?

The Butler team about which he was complaining about in his blog? For the very same reasons he was citing, he should rank the Tigers over the Bulldogs.



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