Blog Entry

The Poll Attacks

Posted on: January 31, 2011 4:10 pm
Edited on: January 31, 2011 4:17 pm
 
You want to know why more than half of the AP voters have Duke outside of the top five?

Because that's where the Blue Devils belong.

You want to know why one AP voter has Duke inside of the top two?

Because ... I have no idea.

But I appreciate Ron Morris doing it because it makes for an easy Poll Attacks.

Associated Press poll: Where would you rank a team that's A) suffered two losses to currently unranked teams, B) beaten zero currently ranked teams, C) gone 2-2 against four unranked teams in true road games, and D) been without its best player since early December?

If your name is Ron Morris, you'd rank that team second.

You'd be crazy, of course.

But that's what you'd do.

Because that's what Ron did.

(You can click this link see for yourself thanks to PollSpeak.com)

Granted, this is better than last week, when Ron was the lone AP voter who had Duke ahead of Ohio State. But it's still wrong because the Blue Devils' resume wasn't worthy of a No. 2 ranking last week, and it sure isn't worthy of No. 2 ranking after Sunday's blowout loss at St. Johns. To prove this, let's compare the bodies of work of the school Ron has No. 2 (Duke) and the school I have No. 2 (Pittsburgh).

----- Duke -----

Record: 19-2
Wins over currently ranked teams: 0
Losses to currently unranked teams: 2 (Florida State, St. John's)
Losses to currently ranked teams: 0

----- Pitt -----

Record: 20-2
Wins over currently ranked teams: 4 (No. 3 Texas, No. 6 Connecticut, No. 13 Georgetown, No. 17 Syracuse)
Losses to currently unranked teams: 1 (Tennessee)
Losses to currently ranked teams: 1 (No. 9 Notre Dame)

Now allow me to recap: Pitt has at least four wins better than any win Duke possesses, and Pitt has only one loss to a currently unranked team whereas Duke has two. So the Panthers have more wins than Duke, better wins than Duke and two losses that aren't as bad as Duke's two losses. And yet Ron has Duke No. 2 and Pittsburgh No. 4. I bet you a briefcase full of Charlie Sheen's coke that he couldn't possibly defend that order with anything of substance.

Coaches poll: We might find out in March that Utah State is the next Butler or George Mason or whatever, at which point this version of the Poll Attacks will look stupid. But for now the coaches ranking the Aggies 21st is what looks stupid.

What's it based on?

A bunch of bad victories?

The Aggies have played two legitimate basketball teams (BYU and Georgetown) and lost both games by an average of 11.5 points. Beyond that, they haven't done much of note. All 20 of their wins are against teams ranked outside of the Top 100 of the latest RPI, meaning Utah State is 0-2 against the Top 100 and 20-0 against teams outside of the Top 100. Congratulations, I guess. But where I'm from, that's not good enough. You want to be ranked, beat somebody. Because beating a bunch of nobodies doesn't do much for me. Again, if Utah State proves me wrong in March, I'll apologize. But for now the Aggies are just a team stacking wins against weak competition after losing their only two games against good competition.

Comments

Since: Jan 26, 2009
Posted on: February 1, 2011 6:01 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

I like how skullface conveniently leaves out BYUs 22 point win over Arizona as a ranked team that BYU has beat. If you are going to rant like a lunatic at least get the facts right. By the way, all the teams you have listed except Pitt have loses that are worse than BYU.




Since: Aug 8, 2008
Posted on: February 1, 2011 3:44 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

----- Duke -----

Record: 19-2
Wins over currently ranked teams: 0
Losses to currently unranked teams: 2 (Florida State, St. John's)
Losses to currently ranked teams: 0

----- Pitt -----

Record: 20-2
Wins over currently ranked teams: 4 (No. 3 Texas, No. 6 Connecticut, No. 13 Georgetown, No. 17 Syracuse)
Losses to currently unranked teams: 1 (Tennessee)
Losses to currently ranked teams: 1 (No. 9 Notre Dame)

So let me now ask you why you didnt use that same logic for:

BYU-
record-20-2
wins over current ranked teams:1 (mighty SDSU)
losses to currently unranked teams:2 (ucla, New Mexico)
losses to currently ranked teams:0

Georgetown-
record- 17-5
wins over current ranked teams:5 (Lou, Villanova,ND, Mizzou, WV)
losses to currently unranked teams:2 (St johns and Temple)
losses to currently ranked teams:3 (pitt, WV, ND)

Villanova-
record- 17-4
wins over current ranked teams:2 (Cuse, L-Ville)
losses to currently unranked teams:2 (Tenn, Providence)
losses to currently ranked teams:2 (Uconn, Gtown)

Mizzou-
record-17-4
wins over current ranked teams: 1( Illonois)
losses to currently unranked teams: 1 (colorado)
losses to currently ranked teams: 3 ( TX, TX A/M, Gtown)

L-ville
record-17-5
wins over current ranked teams: 2 (Uconn, WV) (3 teams if we use your rankings and count Marquette, who i think needs to be ranked anyways)
losses to currently unranked teams:2 (Providence, Drexel)
losses to currently ranked teams:3 (gtown, Villanova, KY)
 
Texas A&M
record-17-4
wins over current ranked teams: 2 (mizzou,Washington)
losses to currently unranked teams: 2 (nebraska, bc)
losses to currently ranked teams: 2 (texas, texas)
 
  So let me recap for you Parrish, every of those teams have more top 25 wins then BYU (mizzou tied), Most of their losses are to better teams then the ones BYU lost too, not to mention they all play in better conferences, and yet you have them all behind BYU. I'll bet you that case of Charlies Fun Powder and allow you to retort and defend your stance with some substance, besides saying "I love Jimmer".



Since: Dec 7, 2006
Posted on: February 1, 2011 3:13 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

@ lovinMSU, nobody said Georgetown and ND didn't have bad losses at St. John's (and to be honest, Georgetown losing at 3 in NYC isn't bad...ND and Duke got ran off the court and weren't competitive at all). The entire point here is that Duke got a vote from a somebody to be #2 in the country. ND didn't get votes to be #2 in the country and neither did Georgetown. They were only brought into the discussion because they are considered quality opponents, not because they have a better or worse resume than Duke. All your hatred for the Big East is effecting your reading comprehension.

Seriously, how can you sit there and call the Big East a joke. You're obviously a Michigan St and Big Ten fan....by my count, I have the Big East at 6-2 against Big Ten opponents....and Michigan St 0-2. I don't know who's conference is the best and who's isn't, but to sit here and bash Big East basketball makes you look stupid. Enough with your hatred. If you're going to comment, have a little objectivity. 



Since: Aug 8, 2008
Posted on: February 1, 2011 3:01 pm
 

The Poll Attacks-Illogical Logic at its Best

Parrish you are one fine idiot with no logic but your own. I agree that Duke shouldnt be #2, but lets Poll Attack you and your top 25 and 1. Since your on the Duke bashing lets go with this, how in the world do you have Notre Dame ranked ahead of Duke?????
a) Duke 19-2 Notre Dame 17-4
b)duke lost to 2 unranked teams, notre dame lost to 2 unranked teams (one of those to Marquette who duke beat, and they share the same loss to st johns at home)c)the only ranked teams notre dame beat are conference in play, which is totally different. Playing in conference is totally different from out of conference ranked opponents. Like they say in the acc conference games, you can throw a record out the window, stats dont matter when battling your rivals. There only out of conference ranked team they faced was kentucky, whom they lost too, whom even UNC beat.

I also dont understand why all the sudden teams you have beaten in your wins column matter so much for you now, well actually I guess they don't because you only use them in reference to Duke not having any top 25 wins. You never make any reference to Kansas not beating a top 25 team? Only one they played they have lost. Nor do you ever mention San Diego State as not having any top 25 wins, playing in a weak conference, and their one loss is too a team who is ranked but also has not beat one top 25 team and is in the same weak conference and just lost to New Mexico? and also lost to UCLA? Speaking of BYU here is where I am going to drop your own logic on you and show you how much your full of crap. Ok here was your stance for Pitt and Duke:


----- Duke -----

Record: 19-2
Wins over currently ranked teams: 0
Losses to currently unranked teams: 2 (Florida State, St. John's)
Losses to currently ranked teams: 0

----- Pitt -----

Record: 20-2
Wins over currently ranked teams: 4 (No. 3 Texas, No. 6 Connecticut, No. 13 Georgetown, No. 17 Syracuse)
Losses to currently unranked teams: 1 (Tennessee)
Losses to currently ranked teams: 1 (No. 9 Notre Dame)

So let me now ask you why you didnt use that same logic for:

BYU-
record-20-2
wins over current ranked teams:1 (mighty SDSU)
losses to currently unranked teams:2 (ucla, New Mexico)
losses to currently ranked teams:0

Georgetown-
record- 17-5
wins over current ranked teams:5 (Lou, Villanova,ND, Mizzou, WV)
losses to currently unranked teams:2 (St johns and Temple)
losses to currently ranked teams:3 (pitt, WV, ND)

Villanova-
record- 17-4
wins over current ranked teams:2 (Cuse, L-Ville)
losses to currently unranked teams:2 (Tenn, Providence)
losses to currently ranked teams:2 (Uconn, Gtown)

Mizzou-
record-17-4
wins over current ranked teams: 1( Illonois)
losses to currently unranked teams: 1 (colorado)
losses to currently ranked teams: 3 ( TX, TX A/M, Gtown)

L-ville
record-17-5
wins over current ranked teams: 2 (Uconn, WV) (3 teams if we use your rankings and count Marquette, who i think needs to be ranked anyways)
losses to currently unranked teams:2 (Providence, Drexel)
losses to currently ranked teams:3 (gtown, Villanova, KY)
 
Texas A&M
record-17-4
wins over current ranked teams: 2 (mizzou,Washington)
losses to currently unranked teams: 2 (nebraska, bc)
losses to currently ranked teams: 2 (texas, texas)
 
  So let me recap for you Parrish, every of those teams have more top 25 wins then BYU (mizzou tied), Most of their losses are to better teams then the ones BYU lost too, not to mention they all play in better conferences, and yet you have them all behind BYU. I'll bet you that case of Charlies Fun Powder and allow you to retort and defend your stance with some substance, besides saying "I love Jimmer".
 
 



Since: Dec 7, 2006
Posted on: February 1, 2011 2:57 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

That's not a neutral court, guy. It's the heart of Big East country. If you want a neutral court, they need to play in California.
Right...guy. So when Pitt plays St. John's at the Garden, it's a Pitt home game because, after all, it's still in the heart of Big East country? ...forget the fact Pitt's campus is roughtly 400 miles away. Love the logic there....guy. 

Either way, the point is both Pitt and Texas have very good bodies of work, but Pitt's win over Texas should be the determining factor when doing a comparison between those two teams.



Since: Sep 26, 2006
Posted on: February 1, 2011 2:46 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

It figures that a big 10 fan and a MICHIGAN STATE fan would blast the big east after SU smoked your Spartans and WVU knocked off Purdue. You're a hater! Plain and simple. I grant you your points about St. John's but Syracuse's 4 game losing streak includes 3 very reasonable losses and 1 horrendous anomaly that I won't even try to comprehend. Georgetown is famous for its mood swings in terms of wins and losses. Georgetown and Notre Dame do have big time wins as well (ND at Pitt, Hoyas at Nova) Big East is the best conference this year. Big Ten was way overrated although they do have arguably the best team in Ohio State. Big 12 a very solid second right now. Pittsburgh is very good. Duke is not as good. Pitt deserves to be ahead of Duke (I'm a Pitt hater so no bias here) Big East is no joke. Sure they have struggled in the big dance lately but they've also had their share of successes. SU was an injury away from a probable final four and possible national title last year. In '03 and '04 Big East went back to back. The Big East is a serious conference. You can go back to your overhyped big ten and whine about it, but calling the big east a joke just shows that the jokes on you if you actually believe that.



Since: Oct 10, 2008
Posted on: February 1, 2011 2:38 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Let's evaluate our #1 team's resume' and there conference.

Ohio State is a team that has 3 wins over major-conference teams in their non-conference schedule. Those are wins over Florida, Florida St, and South Carolina. The Florida wins are good wins. The S. Carolina win was against a team that lost to Mich St. The rest of their non-conf schedule is filled with cupcakes. More cupcakes than a Hostess Bakery. They must be scared of Big East or Big 12 top teams.

Starting out their conference schedule, they played all 5 of the bottom feeder teams of the conf. They barely won against 4 of them while destroying Indiana. The conference as a whole, can't win against top major conf teams. That there, tells you how much competition the Buckeyes have in the Big 10. Even the 2nd place Purdue team has lost to Richmond and West Virginia. Purdue also has a cupcake non-conf schedule like most of the Big 10 teams.

My final evaluation of the Big 10 would be this. Only 4 teams deserve the big dance. Those would be Ohio St, Purdue, Wisc, and Minn.
I predict that these teams will fall early in the tournament when facing good major conf teams. The Big 10 is one overrated conference. The teams are so inconsistent.

Notable Team losses.

Wisc- UNLV, Notre Dame, Mich St and Penn St.
Minn- Virginia and Mich St.
Mich St- UConn, Duke, Texas, Syracuse, Penn St and Michigan. Just like last year, they can't beat the big boys in season play.
Penn St- Mississippi, Va Tech, Maine and Maryland.
Illinois- Texas, Missouri and Ill-Chicago. Yet, they can win against UNC and Maryland
Mich- Syracuse, Kansas, UTEP and Indiana. They did beat Clemson, but not Indiana!
N'Western- St Johns. They have 3 conf wins (Indiana, Iowa and Michigan.
Indiana- Boston College, Kentucky, Colorado and N. Iowa. N, Iowa doesn't have last years 5 starting seniors.
Iowa- Xavier, Wake Forest and Iowa St. (last in Big 12) Yet they can win against Alabama.

Most of the teams in the Big 10 played good teams of the Big East or Big 12. Not Ohio State! There resume is total garbage.
Texas, Kansa, Pitt, Uconn, Notre Dame, G'town, Louisville, Duke, Kentucky, and i'll throw in SDSU and BYU in the mix, all have one thing in common. They could beat Ohio State. There's probably a few more teams I could add to the list. Ohio State is an undeserving #1.



Since: Oct 21, 2006
Posted on: February 1, 2011 2:35 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Could it possibly be because Pitt is playing in the big east which is a joke of a conference?

I dont care that the big east has 10 teams in the top 25 or whatever.  Syracuse was top 5 and has lost 4 in a row.  Georgetown started out losing their first 4 of their first 5 games one of those losses being to St Johns and now they have won 4 or 5 in a row.   Notre Dame also lost to St Johns but for some reason thats only a bad loss for Duke and not Notre Dame or georgetown?

I dont normally bash journalism but to crap talk Duke losing to St johns without admitting Notre Dame and georgetown did the same is just wrong if you are going to use those 2 as quality wins for Pitt. 



Since: Mar 1, 2009
Posted on: February 1, 2011 2:11 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

This from the guy who until this week had Michigan State ranked highly despite their record and body of work. What  it took a loss to Michigan and an overtime win against Indiana to knock some sens into you? The games agaist Oakland, northwestern Wisconsin Pen St Purdue, Illinois Syracuse, Texas etc. didn't  do it? But gary at the time they played DUKE, MSU was top ten.



Since: Sep 3, 2007
Posted on: February 1, 2011 2:01 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

I think that a logical argument can be made for Pitt or Texas to be at the number two spot.  This is a ranking for CBB teams in week 13 not week 3.  Lately Texas has beaten Mizzou, at KU, TAMU, at TAMU, and at OSU.  Four ranked opponent wins in two weeks, and 5-0 overall.  Im not saying that Pittsburgh hasnt looked exceptional, and I would agree that it should be 1)OSU, 2) Pitt, 3) Texas, and 4) KU based on whats happened so far.  The point is that it isnt worthy of a poll attack discussion, as a logical argument could be made that Texas is playing the best basketball in the land right now with a ton of great wins.  The same cant be said for Duke.


The views expressed in this blog are solely those of the author and do not reflect the views of CBS Sports or CBSSports.com