Blog Entry

The Poll Attacks

Posted on: January 31, 2011 4:10 pm
Edited on: January 31, 2011 4:17 pm
  •  
 
You want to know why more than half of the AP voters have Duke outside of the top five?

Because that's where the Blue Devils belong.

You want to know why one AP voter has Duke inside of the top two?

Because ... I have no idea.

But I appreciate Ron Morris doing it because it makes for an easy Poll Attacks.

Associated Press poll: Where would you rank a team that's A) suffered two losses to currently unranked teams, B) beaten zero currently ranked teams, C) gone 2-2 against four unranked teams in true road games, and D) been without its best player since early December?

If your name is Ron Morris, you'd rank that team second.

You'd be crazy, of course.

But that's what you'd do.

Because that's what Ron did.

(You can click this link see for yourself thanks to PollSpeak.com)

Granted, this is better than last week, when Ron was the lone AP voter who had Duke ahead of Ohio State. But it's still wrong because the Blue Devils' resume wasn't worthy of a No. 2 ranking last week, and it sure isn't worthy of No. 2 ranking after Sunday's blowout loss at St. Johns. To prove this, let's compare the bodies of work of the school Ron has No. 2 (Duke) and the school I have No. 2 (Pittsburgh).

----- Duke -----

Record: 19-2
Wins over currently ranked teams: 0
Losses to currently unranked teams: 2 (Florida State, St. John's)
Losses to currently ranked teams: 0

----- Pitt -----

Record: 20-2
Wins over currently ranked teams: 4 (No. 3 Texas, No. 6 Connecticut, No. 13 Georgetown, No. 17 Syracuse)
Losses to currently unranked teams: 1 (Tennessee)
Losses to currently ranked teams: 1 (No. 9 Notre Dame)

Now allow me to recap: Pitt has at least four wins better than any win Duke possesses, and Pitt has only one loss to a currently unranked team whereas Duke has two. So the Panthers have more wins than Duke, better wins than Duke and two losses that aren't as bad as Duke's two losses. And yet Ron has Duke No. 2 and Pittsburgh No. 4. I bet you a briefcase full of Charlie Sheen's coke that he couldn't possibly defend that order with anything of substance.

Coaches poll: We might find out in March that Utah State is the next Butler or George Mason or whatever, at which point this version of the Poll Attacks will look stupid. But for now the coaches ranking the Aggies 21st is what looks stupid.

What's it based on?

A bunch of bad victories?

The Aggies have played two legitimate basketball teams (BYU and Georgetown) and lost both games by an average of 11.5 points. Beyond that, they haven't done much of note. All 20 of their wins are against teams ranked outside of the Top 100 of the latest RPI, meaning Utah State is 0-2 against the Top 100 and 20-0 against teams outside of the Top 100. Congratulations, I guess. But where I'm from, that's not good enough. You want to be ranked, beat somebody. Because beating a bunch of nobodies doesn't do much for me. Again, if Utah State proves me wrong in March, I'll apologize. But for now the Aggies are just a team stacking wins against weak competition after losing their only two games against good competition.

  •  
Comments

Since: Jan 2, 2007
Posted on: January 31, 2011 7:38 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Pluto,

I understand what you are saying.  But Pomeroy has Washington as #7 and Maryland at #13 right now.  So let's just temper our enthusiasm about those rankings.

I hate Pitt, and I hate Duke, but it is hard to understand how someone can rank Duke ahead of Pitt based on what we know right now.



Since: Mar 11, 2007
Posted on: January 31, 2011 7:23 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

XXPLUTO IS A WISE COLLEGE BASKETBALL FAIR

YOU ARE CORRECT  PLUTO     WOW ALL CHECK PITTSBURGS WIN COME ON DO IT




Since: Mar 11, 2007
Posted on: January 31, 2011 7:21 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

HEY WHAT DUKE HAS DONE IS WON IT ALL LAST YEAR
THEY"VE LOST 2 GAMES

THEY HAVEN"T PLAYED ANY1  LORD GET A LIFE  CHECK OUT PITTSBURGS WINS OK

LAST YEAR DUKE 17-4 lost to GEORGETOWN  by 15
EVERYONE SAID THAT"S IT DUKE IS NOT #1 SEED
BOY DID THEY PROVE THEM WRONG>

AND AGAIN THEY WILL WIN IT ALL

1. OHIO STATE
2. KANSAS
3. DUKE
4. BYU
5. SAN DIEGO STATE

IS THE ONLY POSSIBLE WAY TO RANK THEM BE FAIR GARY THIS IS YOUR WORSE 25 AND 1 EVER




Since: Jan 2, 2007
Posted on: January 31, 2011 7:21 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Smallzy,

Utah State didn't play Ohio U in the first round of the tourny last year, so how could they have possibly lost to them by 20??



Since: Feb 23, 2008
Posted on: January 31, 2011 7:21 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

I hate Duke and all, but I also hate the typical hypocrisy and arrogance perpetually displayed by Parrish in his Poll Attacks. I've seen a lot of issues over the season, but let's just take this one: that evidently only a moron could place Duke ahead of Pittsburgh.
I couldn't help but notice that someone besides Ron Morris also places Duke ahead of Pittsburgh.... See, he uses a mathematical formula to rank teams based on statistics and tempo-free analysis for comparisons. After all, any game has a certain probability to end up with any which outcome, but judging teams based on all their possessions over the season and weighting them against the competition is a much more effective means to determine which ones are the best.
The polls, on the other hand, are basically groupthink circle-jerks as writers make knee-jerk reactions like the ones in the Poll Attacks - such as comparing by W/L vs. others in the current Top 25, which is the very thing Parrish is attacking. Why would we take the amalgamation of judgments made by idiots like Ron Morris and Gary Parrish to be more credible than actual analysis? I don't know, but I guess Mr. Parrish does.
How about a Poll Attacks on Mr. Parrish himself using his own logic? For instance, he has a four-loss Syracuse team that has a single Top 25 win and just dropped four in a row, two of those at home including by 22 to freakin' Seton Hall...over three-loss Texas A&M with two wins against Top 25 competition and all losses on the road.
What a tool. Although to be fair the polls aren't really supposed to be about knee-jerk reactions to W-L totals and weighting them based on the current ranking of teams as they've diverted from their preseason ranking, or else we could have a monkey do it or just glance at the standings. They should be either a judgment of how good a team really is independent of game outcomes, or an assessment of what a team has accomplished based on factors that cannot be simply listed in the W-L column. Neither of which can automatically be discarded based on the circular second grade logic Parrish uses in every Poll Attacks.



Since: Nov 16, 2007
Posted on: January 31, 2011 7:20 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Excellent point, I agree. However some of the subjective ranking (even at this point of the season) is based a team on paper. Duke's case and point. I look forward to seeing them lose in the sweet 16, that is if the team doesn't start gellin like everyones paper report says they should. 



Since: Jan 13, 2009
Posted on: January 31, 2011 7:09 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

Gary, you're being a little inconsistent here. "You want to be ranked, beat somebody," you comment in reference to Utah St. Why doesn't that apply to Duke? Because they're Duke? I don't know what they've done to deserve being ranked at all, much less #8 (and certainly not #5). They did the same thing last year and ended up with a 1 seed and an undeservedly easy path to the Final Four on the strength of playing a lot of decent teams without a single win against the Top 25.



Since: Mar 11, 2007
Posted on: January 31, 2011 7:09 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

THIS IS INDEED THE WORST TOP 25 AND ONE YOU HAVE EVER PUT OUT GARY
YOUR BIAS AND DISCRIMINATION SHOW ...ap and coaches  DUKE #5

PLEASE READ THE WAY IT SHOULD BE
1. OHIO STATE
2. KANSAS
3. DUKE
4. BYU
5. SAN DIEGO STATE
6. TEXAS
7. UCONN
8. NOTRE DAME
9. UCONN
10 KENTUCKY
11. PITTSBURG  i c their resume  go look at their wins  they have horrible wins against horrible teams



Since: Jun 11, 2009
Posted on: January 31, 2011 6:59 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

yeah, at least Utah St didn't lose to Ohio U by 20 in the first round last yr.



Since: Mar 11, 2007
Posted on: January 31, 2011 6:59 pm
 

The Poll Attacks

And Parrish, what is going on today is that Syracuse hasn't won in over two weeks dropping 4 straight yet you have them 14th??? Geez.


The views expressed in this blog are solely those of the author and do not reflect the views of CBS Sports or CBSSports.com