Blog Entry

Big Ben is an elite QB and Eli is not.

Posted on: July 8, 2008 1:53 pm
Edited on: July 10, 2008 12:00 am
 

Big Ben vs. Eli Manning, or why Big Ben is an elite QB and Eli is not (Part 1)

Don't get me wrong, I DO like Peyton Manning, I like the Giants, and I don't think Big Ben has of yet proven he is the next Steve Young, when I say elite, I mean out of active QBs in the game today.
So, Big Ben vs Eli huh? To the mental equivalent of the great unwashed they seem similar. Each was a 1st round 2004 pick, both are about the same age and height, both won a conference championship, and both won a SB mainly on the rest of their team's performance. No real difference right? WRONG!!!
They are as different as night and day.
They have both started a similar number of games, but the differences are significant.
Ben has won 45 and lost 20 (.692) Eli won 34 and lost 28 (.548)
(abbreviated B & E respectively hence)
Career passer rating B 92.5 E 73.4
Career Completion percentage B 63.2 E 54.7
Career Yd/reception B 8.1 E 6.3
Career TD% B 5.8 E 4.3
Career INT% B 3.8 E 3.5 Ben's figure is inflated by the 4.9% crash year- 3.5 IS average for Eli
Playoff winning % B 71.4 E 66.6
Let's also look at consistency by year
In 2004 Ben had 8 games at >100 passer(1 at 158.0:0.3 from perfect) and had 1 games at <60 passer rating
In 2004 Eli had 2 games at >100 passer and had 4 games at <60 passer rating (1 at 16.9)

In 2005 Ben had 7 games at >100 passer (1 at 158.3 perfect)and had 3 games at <60 passer rating (including SB)
In 2005 Eli had 3 games at >100 passer and had 4 games at <60 passer rating (& 1 at 62.2)

In 2006 Ben had 5 games at >100 passer and had 5 games at <60 passer rating (accident abberration year)
In 2006 Eli had 3 games at >100 passer and had 4 games at <60 passer rating

In 2007 Ben had 7 games at >100 passer and had 0 games at <60 passer rating
In 2007 Eli had 5 games at >100 passer (2 in playoffs) and had 4 games at <60 passer rating

B27>100 9<60 41% of his games played at >100 passer rating 13% less than 60
E13>100 12<60 20% of his games played at >100 passer rating 19% less than 60

All this show that Ben has consistently performed at a high level with very few bad games. Eli has been wildly inconsistent and has had about as many bad games as good. Ben's numbers compare to Peyton and Brady (except yardage due to the run 1st Steeler philosophy) and Eli's compare to Brian Greise and Phillip Rivers.

Comments

Since: Jul 14, 2008
Posted on: August 7, 2008 12:19 am
 

Big Ben is an elite QB and Eli is not.

Big Ben is on the brink of being an elite qb, he shows it in good stats, but Eli Manning is not. Eli is a good qb, not a elite one, he does not have the best stats but he leads his team, or at least the offense, because other than Eli, who is the leader on the Giants offense? that's why they won the sb, but by a longshot.

I'd take Ben over Eli, but both are good young playmaking qb's that are ready to get better.




Since: Sep 5, 2006
Posted on: July 14, 2008 10:49 am
 

Big Ben is an elite QB and Eli is not.

I'm not convinced that comparisons between Eli and Ben are even fruitful.  As Solomon insinuates, the similarities are all on the surface.  Beyond that...they're very different players.  Who would I rather have on my team right now?  It depends on whether I have a good pass-blocking O-line.  If not, I'll take Ben.  If I do I'd probably take Eli.

Eli is plainly not an elite quarterback in this league yet.  He has his moments and he's growing into quite a clutch performer.  I look for him to take the next step this year by building on his playoff and SB performance.
But, Ben is not an elite QB either.  Solomon's stats serve only to set Eli and Ben apart...not to set them in the context of the rest of the league.  I'll need further input from Solomon.  My suspicion, though, is that there is a significant drop off from the truly elite NFL QB and the middling guys among which I count Ben and Eli.

The QB rating system used by Solomon is a very shallow system.  Any comparison between players in that system is based on surface characteristics.  It's still used in the NFL because it's exceeding quick to calculate in-game by the TV production staff.  We'll never have a perfect barometer but DVOA by Football Outsiders is better than QB rating.  I expect Solomon to enjoy it.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/st

ats/qb.php



Since: Aug 16, 2006
Posted on: July 14, 2008 4:03 am
 

Big Ben is an elite QB and Eli is not.

 Eli had two, count'em, TWO good playoff games and then reverted to his normal mediocre level of play. What happened was his team proved his contribution was very inconsequential, all they needed from him were Trent Dilfer numbers and no mistakes.

    Ok and I watched the games as well (Steelers included) how many did Ben have? yeah point exactly...  ben elite thats a joke.  (not saying Eli is up to par with him hard to argue "stats") but if you are saying that "Eli is any different" then Ben then you are mistaken. Sadly mistaken and need a rude awaking buddy.  Ok I saw one person say the Steelers one despite Ben in the Super Bowl which is true...  has Ben ever had over 500 attempts in his career only time he has near that amount well we'll just say he had his "down year" and so did the Steelers... wait I love the win loss comparison thats my favorite one... Ben's Rookie year Eli's rookie year lets think for a second... wait I'm thinking.  13-1 and 1-8 Steelers (built to win the Super Bowl) Giants well bad offensive line and built to almost make the playoffs with a good veteran QB...  Ben attempted an amazing 21 passes per game that year... I see he did his heavy lifting the year he really out did Eli in the win loss year... now lets go to the playoffs... they play the Jets HEAVILY favored.  1 TD's and 2 INT I believe he should have had 3 INT"s if the Jets DB's didn't have butter fingers but then again thats why they aren't WR's right? And the Patriots made him look kind of foolish too so great numbers first year in the playoffs Ben team bailed you out one game couldn't the second...now his rise to the Super Bowl... 23 attempts way to just sling it around.  Yes I watched each game... saw him pass well against the Bengals, and the Colts and Broncos (who he always does pretty well against) but come Super Bowl a team that said you have to beat us passing forced him to throw it at times he didn't want too he played horrible got a "lucky" break on the TD run but they would have gotten a FG out of it so no harm there just padded his own pathetic stats out of there. 
    His defense and one quick run helped him out immensely.  But Eli (they forced him to throw) attempted 29 attempts and just made sure he didn't well do what Ben did... because he was playing a team better then the Sea Hawks that year.  You say you saw the games and he had only 2 good playoff games? He had a good playoff game last year against the Eagles and his defense couldn't stop Westbrook from running all over them... (led his team to a TD to tie the game) this past year he led his team to go ahead against the Cowboys (offensive coordinator got predictable with the play calling late in the game why the Cowboys had  any chance) led them against the Packers 3 times to win it and Tynes finally kicked it in... and led his team ahead against the Patriots... overall his whole playoffs were good he didn't buckle under pressure and now stands at 4-2 in the playoffs with 1 bad game (Panthers game with his first start decimated defense and offensive line) yeah I think that does hinder a QB a bit... look at Ben against the Jag's honestly if the Jag's were a more veteran team they would have put them away early but a loss is a loss right?



Since: Mar 8, 2008
Posted on: July 10, 2008 11:43 am
 

Big Ben is an elite QB and Eli is not.

Ben is slightly ahead of Eli as far as development goes

It's a bit perplexing how you can say that when Ben has had over twice as many games at >100 passer rating, I think that shows a good deal of developmental advantage, more likely though it's greater talent.

But Eli can be as good as any QB in the league when he finds his rythym as he proved last year on the way to the Giants SB win.

Check out the game logs. (and yes I watched the games as well) Eli had two, count'em, TWO good playoff games and then reverted to his normal mediocre level of play. What happened was his team proved his contribution was very inconsequential, all they needed from him were Trent Dilfer numbers and no mistakes.

Ben also played in a system that protected the QB from having to win games on his own with a ball control power running game

Except last year, that is probably true, If Ben were on the Cowboys, he'd probably be blowing away most other QBs in yardage as well.

I think too many people feel sorry for Eli and try to rationalize for him.




Since: Nov 18, 2006
Posted on: July 10, 2008 5:50 am
 

Big Ben is an elite QB and Eli is not.

Ben is slightly ahead of Eli as far as development goes. But Eli can be as good as any QB in the league when he finds his rythym as he proved last year on the way to the Giants SB win. But Ben plays in a division that  isnt year in and year out as difficult as the NFC East  so his win total should be higher. Ben also played in a system that protected the QB from having to win games on his own with a ball control power running game (not saying the Giants are the second coming of air Coryell but I think the Steelerds. Having to be the QB of the Steelers has to be one of the toughest QB jobs in the NFL but I think the scrutiny the New York press has on a New York QB  is the toughest especially after drawing all that attention to yourself on draft day. So the next 5 years will tell the true story as to which QB is the best. But if I had to chose right now its  Ben in a heartbeat.



Since: Mar 13, 2008
Posted on: July 9, 2008 6:47 pm
 

Big Ben is an elite QB and Eli is not.

Ben Roethlisberger is an elite quarterback. No doubt. The one bad season came after a car crash and he was never right physically and mentally that whole year. Who would?

He has things to improve on -- getting the ball out quicker to check downs to avoid sacks, for example -- but he consistently gives his team a chance to win. His stats are not inflated by blowout games where a team has to throw on every down.

Most importantly, there are few teams in the NFL that wouldn't trade their starting QB straight up for Big Ben. If you offered that deal to the Giants, they'd take it. And that's all that needs to be said about this comparison.




Since: Aug 16, 2006
Posted on: July 8, 2008 11:30 pm
 

Big Ben is an elite QB and Eli is not.

Big Ben played like crap in his Superbowl win and the Steelers won DESPITE him, Eli was an a very important part of winning thier Superbowl.


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