Blog Entry

Cardinals, Molina stop talking deal -- "for now"

Posted on: February 19, 2012 5:43 pm
Edited on: February 19, 2012 11:42 pm
 
JUPITER, Fla. -- When Albert Pujols arrived at spring training last year, negotiations on a new contract were over. And, as it turned out, Pujols was on the way out of town.

Sunday, Yadier Molina opened Cardinals camp by saying his contract negotiations with the team had ended.

For now, the free-agent-to-be catcher then added.

For now.

Unlike his good friend Pujols, Molina has not ruled out reopening negotiations, during the spring or possibly during the season.

"They know I'm open to talk," Molina said Sunday, after confirming that this month's talks ended with no agreement.

It's hard to know for sure how likely the Cardinals and Molina are to get a deal done. The catcher, who turns 30 in July, will make $7 million this year, on the option year of a contract signed in 2008.

Molina says he loves St. Louis and the Cardinals organization, but he wouldn't say that he'd be willing to take less money to do it.

"I'd like to work something out to try to stay," he said. "At the same time, this is a business."

Likewise, Cardinals general manager John Mozeliak didn't exactly say that re-signing Molina was on his must-do list.

"Our desire would be to find a way to sign him," Mozeliak said.

That way will have to wait. How long? It's hard to say.

"We've stopped talking," Molina said. "For now, we've stopped talking."



Comments

Since: Feb 21, 2012
Posted on: February 21, 2012 4:42 pm
 

Cardinals, Molina stop talking deal -- "for now"

Yep....I could not agree with you more, CleveCards. But, I am sorry to say that the current owner does not think that way. Here is the mindset of DeWitt and Mozeliak.  Just as it was with Pujols:  "We got you at a bargain price and that was a great deal for us...we outmaneuvered your slick agent and won that bet, El Hombre. You will not get a penny more than what we want to give you based upon what you have already done. Your former accomplishments? That is all history- done and paid for, my friend."
They have the benefit of a World Championship on their side and they have already succeeded in portraying Albert as a greedy SOB and a liar. I don't believe that for one second. Had they ponied up for one more year, Albert would have finished his career in St. Louis.
If you added up all the money they paid over 20-21 years and averaged it out, it would have been a win-win for the Cardinals and for Albert.
But NO...they wanted to go out on top...offer a five-year deal "That's all you got left in you, El Hombre ...maybe five more years left in that aging body and then adios amigo!" That is the nature of this business that is so money-driven. No feelings, no heart...it is all about the Benjamins.
The only way I will go to a Cardinal game this year is if they are playing the Angels and I get free tickets. I will make it a point to buy a Pujols Angels jersey before I go and only under those circumstances would I attend. I will drink three or four beers before I show up so they only might make a few bucks off of me. They won't sign Molina because they think they have already got a bargain and want to go out on top of him, too. They want to "steal" off of the best defensive catcher in baseball and they probably will.



Since: Dec 1, 2009
Posted on: February 21, 2012 1:49 pm
 

Cardinals, Molina stop talking deal -- "for now"

SHANTDOGG, Excellent point, although I'd say 'strange' rather than 'funny'. Yadier is 4 years younger, makes less than half as much, is a comparative workhorse at a much more physically demanding position, and his last three years' average WAR is 3.03 vs. (-0.3). That's comparing an underpaid good-to-very-good starter entering his prime to an over-the-hill, overpaid bum. Or Iron Man to Hancock.



Since: Nov 20, 2006
Posted on: February 21, 2012 1:00 pm
 

Cardinals, Molina stop talking deal -- "for now"

What makes you think he won't be just as good at age 34 or 35? It's not like he asking for 7 or 8 years.
Well, first, we don't know how long he's asking.  Maybe he is asking for 7-8 years.  I haven't read anything credible that gives an idea of what he's looking for.


What makes me think he won't be as good?  The fact that almost everyone who hasn't been linked to steroids start their decline in their early-mid 30's.  What makes you think that he'll be just as good?  The overwhelming majority of players start to decline by 32 or 33... some to a greater degree than others.  


I give Molina credit though, he's come out and said, "it's about the money".  Whether you think it's ok or not, I still like the fact that he has come out and said he wants to get paid, and he'll go where the money is.  



Since: Dec 5, 2006
Posted on: February 21, 2012 12:52 am
 

Cardinals, Molina stop talking deal -- "for now"

Let's just say the Cardinals gave Molina a 5 year deal at $11M a year.The next 3 years he is easily worth $11M a year.Then after that lets just say his value drops down to a $7M a year player while still making $11M a year.Are we really going to let the best defensive catcher for the next 3 years leave over $4M a year wasted in the last 2 years? I would project Molina's value  over $11M for the first 3 years so it balances out.BTW according to fangraphs Molina's value last year was $18.5M and his previous 4 years he has averaged around $12.5M.



Since: Dec 5, 2006
Posted on: February 21, 2012 12:39 am
 

Cardinals, Molina stop talking deal -- "for now"

What makes you think he won't be just as good at age 34 or 35? It's not like he asking for 7 or 8 years.



Since: Nov 20, 2006
Posted on: February 20, 2012 5:15 pm
 

Cardinals, Molina stop talking deal -- "for now"

When you get players that have palyed years for you for LESS than what they're worth, I see no problem with paying them later MORE than what they're worth. 
I understand that's how you want to look at it, but if that is truly the case, then it doesn't make sense.  Think about what you're saying. That's not how business works.  You don't have an employee who has outperformed expectations for years, but is starting to decline and then give him a massive raise for all of the years going forward to repay him for the years he was underpaid.  


You don't buy stocks for what they did in the past, you buy them for what they're going to do.  The only thing that will save that contract from being a disaster is that it's the AL and they have the DH to fall back on in those last 5 years of his contract.  The Cardinals didn't have that luxury.  


With Molina, I think he'll still be a great catcher for the next couple years, I'd just be concerned once he starts getting close to his mid 30's.  He already has issues running the bases.  Add a few more years of abuse to his knees, and I'd be conerned that his bat severly declines and his defense would take a hit.  Don't get me wrong, I'd hate to see him go, but if it doesn't make sense for a large chunk of the contract, then I wouldn't feel comfortable going through with it. 



Since: Mar 29, 2007
Posted on: February 20, 2012 3:45 pm
 

Cardinals, Molina stop talking deal -- "for now"

echele112- I know that's your opinion ( and the view of many others I've heard, by the way) and you're obviously entitled to it. In my opinion, I think they should have been more than happy to have paid Pujols what the Angels did, and should pay Molina $11 a year for 5 years, if that's what he's looking for. When you get players that have palyed years for you for LESS than what they're worth, I see no problem with paying them later MORE than what they're worth. Getting the best hitter in baseball for 10 years for the price of the 15th or 20th best hitter in baseball is a bargain you should be willing to pay for. I don't think he should have been worth that to the Angels, because they didn't get that from him. As for Molina, best defender in the game, not just best defensive cather, best defender. Takes away runs the way Edmonds used to rob extra bases. Do you know what a reilief it is to a starting pitcher when Molina picks a guy off, so they don't have to worry about the baserunner? Guy has also hit .300 2 of the last 3 years. Know how many catchers hit .300? And even with Pujols, THE moist clutch hitter on the team. Playoffs, game on the line, late innings- I wanted Molina up to bat more than Albert. SERIOUSLY clutch. Like with Albert, you've ALREADY got more out of this guy than you could ever pay him. Pay him what he wants!



Since: Aug 21, 2006
Posted on: February 20, 2012 12:26 pm
 

Cardinals, Molina stop talking deal -- "for now"

Where else are the Cardinals going to get 2 catchers to replace the numbers of Molina. Cardinals management needs to open their eyes the best backstop in the National League they just don't have a clue yet. Lose him and see how far the mighty have fallen.



Since: Nov 20, 2006
Posted on: February 20, 2012 11:32 am
 

Cardinals, Molina stop talking deal -- "for now"

silly cardinal fans...

Molina is the third biggest reason the team won the WS last year (nehind Pujols and carp)

how many clutch hitting GREAT defensive catheres are there?  3 maybe?  and the cards may have the best and dont even know it ( apparently a trend for them)
Much like Molina, I think we just understand the business side.  I'd take Molina for a this season over possible any catcher in the game (if you could get me a fully healthy Mauer, I'd go that way).  The problem is, Molina turns 30 this summer.  In the past three years he's caught more innings than any other catcher in baseball (and he's got room to spare).  We've abused his knees more than probably any catcher in the league.  While we're paying him $7 million this year, he's probably going to be looking for something in the area of 5/55.  $11 million a year is going to be a lot, and I'm just not sure you can afford that kind of salary for a guy who'll only play 135 games a season (if healthy).  


I think Cardinals fans understand that they lost the best 1st baseman in baseball, but you're not paying him for what he did, you pay him for what you think he will do.  3 years of declining numbers leads most analysts to think that he won't get back to his super elite production.  $25 million/year to a player already declining can be stomached, but doing it for 10 years is a whole new type of bitter pill.


I think I can handle 10-11 million for 2013-2014.  Then you'd need to start dropping the yearly closer to $7 million again for the following 3 years.  



Since: Aug 25, 2006
Posted on: February 20, 2012 10:32 am
 

Cardinals, Molina stop talking deal -- "for now"

silly cardinal fans...

Molina is the third biggest reason the team won the WS last year (nehind Pujols and carp)

how many clutch hitting GREAT defensive catheres are there?  3 maybe?  and the cards may have the best and dont even know it ( apparently a trend for them)


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