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2009 ATMD

Posted on: February 23, 2009 12:55 pm
Edited on: April 17, 2009 10:46 pm

Ok, so we are officially complete with the 2009 CPMD and crowned Skins champion.  That means we now move our attention to the big daddy of all contests, the All Time Mock Draft:


1. "You Still Really Don't Want It With Us" /  wildcatsfan1
2. "Revenge of the Smith" / Team of The Big B-Coach & Michigan Sports-GM
3. "The Legends" / Nuggets_SOS ( ATMD-08 Winner )
4. "" /  North Harbour
5. "Kemp's Kids" or "Chrisper & Friends" /  ChrisperJ10
6. "Ripnu Ginobiltons" / Team of MrRedSoxBaller-GM & BMu_1963-Coach
7. "The Ten Acid Deez" /  axesstarr
8. g8trfan_1 ( Creator of ATMD )
9. "Bad News Joe" /  Team of windy city joe-GM & BNW2-Coach
10. "The Sulphurous Nonentities" /  blood_baller
11. HurricaneDij39
12. "Josh Heytvelt's Shroom and Swish" / Team of Zagfan62 & BucFan40
13. "Dishing and Swishing"kmvenne
14. "Death by Dunk" / Team of  lakers2408 & nate75
15. "Roanoke Dimpstaffs" /  Harst
16. "champinoship crew" / Team of tfitz & GoCavs33

* All posters that have confirmed their spot and look to be part of the contest.

Note: The idea of two posters getting together as a team has come up and is not a bad idea, if that helps in making sure there are no forfeits in the matches I am all for it.  Feel free to contact someone and just post it on this blog. 

Overall Structure:

There will be a Board of Directors ( BOD ) for this years Contest: 
   Chairman of the Board ( COTB ):  The Big B
     Board Member: Nuggets_SOS
     Board Member: wildcatsfan1
     Board Member: North Harbour
     Board Member: g8trfan_1
*On matters of collusion or punishment/possible ejection of players, the COTB has total say.
*Problems before the Draft will be dealt with by the entire BOD, where majority ruling will decide the outcomes of rule structure, scheduling or game setup.
*Problems after the Draft ( during the matchups ) will be dealt with by at least 3 BOD, where majority ruling will decide the outcome of trading conflicts, rulings, or things that affect league balance.

TEAMS: Two Posters getting together and forming a team.  The "GM" will be the one who takes part in the Draft / Confirm any Trades and the "Coach" will be the one responsible for submitting the gameplans in. But of course both members can help the other.

Draft Lottery Challenge: We will be all predicting the total score of two NBA first round playoff games ( Game 1 between the two 1vs8 Seeds in each Conference ).  Whoever guesses closest to those game totals will get the first pick in the draft, the furthest away will get the last pick ( #16 ).  I WILL CREATE A THREAD IN THE MAIN NBA THREADS.  By 11:59 EST Friday, April 17th everyone will need to submit their predictions into me ( Nugs ) via pm in that thread, as I will send my own prediction into a Neutral third party ( TheSkins8 ) via pm the day before to avoid any questions.  If someone neglects to submit their pick they will be automatically the last pick in the draft.  Also, each Team needs to predict a tie-breaker total which will be the stat line of LeBron = ( total of his points, rebounds and assists ).  The morning following the 2nd game I will reveal the draft order in a thread on the main board as well as the divisions of the first round of pool play.

     For Instance you will submit to me: "385 points for the total of the two games, 48 points for LeBrons statline total".

Beginning Divisions: Slot each team based on their draft position: North would be 1,5,9,13 South would be 2,6,10,14 East would be 3,7,11,15 West would be 4,8,12,16.

NOTE: NO TRADES CAN BE FINALIZED UNTIL THE DRAFT OFFICIALLY BEGINS.  There will time in between when we have determined the picking order and the beginning of the draft ( Wednesday, 4/22/09 ).  You can discuss trading draft picks all you want but nothing is final until the draft thread is created, as that will be the place to announce any trades.

Rules for Draft:

  1. All players who have been in the NBA for at least 1 full year are eligible for the draft.  That includes Michael Jordan ( who was not eligible last year ).  Nobody is eligible that has played their entire career in the ABA. 
  2. Number of rounds staying to 10, still snake style draft ( 1-16 on odd rounds, 16-1 on even rounds ).
  3. Unlimited trading allowed ( either picks or players ) during the draft.  To be kept track by BOD's WCF and NH.  Trading will no longer be permitted 6 hours after the final pick has been made ( team 10, pick 16 ).
  4. No trading of overall picking position, for instance if someone picks 3rd and if someone picks 5th, you can't swap picking position for the entire contest.  Only can trade picks during particular rounds.
  5. Each draft pick time limit = 6 hours ( 10pmEST - 6amEST does not count toward the 6 hour time limit, but you can announce your selection during those hours ). If person doesn't draft in that time they are skipped and can come back anytime and announce their player as long as they are still available.
  6. You can change your mind on your selection as long as it's before the person picking after you announces their selection.
  7. Players are judged upon how they were in their prime of their career in the NBA, not how they played in the ABA for instance.
  8. Everyone MUST keep 3 players from their roster at the conclusion of the Draft for the entire contest, BOD NH and WCF will keep track of this throughout the contest.
  9. Teams consisting of 2 Posters: Either member of the team can announce who the selection is, unless you designate prior to the draft who is the person responsible for drafting, generally the "GM".  ( Please check the Participant List to see if we have that designation for your team yet ).

Rules for Transaction Periods:

  1. Transaction Periods = 1. Trading Players 2. Drop Excess Players 3. Add / Drop Players
  2. Number of Transaction Periods = 2 total ( 1-After 1st pool games, 2-After 2nd pool games )
  3. "Drop Excess Players" list:  At the conclusion of each trading period, just before the add drop.  Anyone who has more than 10 players on their roster has to provide a list of who they are dropping into the free agent pool.  If you don't provide the COTB your players you have to drop then he will pick them for you.
  4. "Add / Drop Period": Immediately following each trading period, order will be reverse order of seedings.
  5. Number of chances each team gets during the add / drop period is a maximum of 2, each Poster will have 4 hours to make their selection or they will be skipped, you can come back and select a player if you have been skipped as long as no one else has taken him and it's before the final selection which officially ends the process.
  6. Once you have announced your add / drop selection, you can only change your mind prior to the next Poster making their selection.
  7. Trading Players unevenly is allowed.  For instance trading 3 players for 1 player.  You must have at least 8 players after trading so that during the add / drop period you can get back to 10 players.  If you are under 8 players when the trading period is over your last trade will be null and void.  ( The SupaNugs Rule )
  8. For Transaction Period's trading restrictions include "Original" Players only.  These are players that were on your roster prior to the Trading Period that leave your roster, any players you received from other deals don't count to that total. 
  9. Getting a bonus if you vote more often during the matches, if you are part of a team then the total votes would get averaged between the two Posters ( we will round down ).  For Transaction Periods the bonus structure will be the following ( note that we included the percentages because if a game is forfeited it will not count towards the total ):
        *Vote on 0-5 Games (0-25%) - 1 Trade / 2 Players ( Possible expulsion, reviewed by BOD )
        *Vote on 6-10 Games (26-50%) - 1 Trade / 3 Players
        *Vote on 11-15 (51-75%) - 2 Trades / 5 Players
        *Vote on 16-20 Games (76-99%) - 3 Trades / 6 Players
        *Vote on 21 Games (100%) - 4 Trades / 7 Players
  10. Announcing of trades.  Once a trade is announced in the threads by ALL parties involved it's final, one team can announce as the other team can say that "I agree".  Try to avoid the skins/dcb/wcj problem that occured in the last contest.

Rules for Matches:

  1. Word Limits to gameplans, during pool periods (1000 word max ), during tournament ( 1200 word max ). Word Count does not include listing of rosters and minutes. 
  2. Requirement that each Coach must list the minutes played of each player in the gameplan, no more "Match LeBrons minutes"
  3. Requirement that each player must be designated to a particular position in the gameplans, for example if you have Moses Malone, you must say that he's playing 30min at C, then 10min at PF.
  4. Penalty if someone does not turn in a gameplan, once = forfeit, twice = removal from contest.
  5. Games that go into overtime or get "enough" votes will just continue on and won't push the next set of games back to mess up schedule. ( minimum of 10 votes in each match )  Matches that are tied in point value after 3 days will go into an overtime period of 24 hours where whichever team is leading at that time wins the match.  If it's tied still then we go into a sudden death period where the next vote wins.
  6. If someone doesn't turn in a gameplan they will lose the match by forfeit, the Poster who turned in their gameplan has the option to post only their gameplan for people to comment.  Winning team gets an automatic 8 votes for and 0 votes against ( used for tie-breaking purposes )
  7. When both teams fail to turn in gameplans, both teams get a loss and nobody gets automatic votes for or against.
  8. Votes that are "Marginal" in the contest will need to be explained further, a marginal vote is one that shows clearly the Poster didn't read the gameplans and needs to explain the reasoning further. ( Only BOD members determines marginal votes )
  9. Voting value in the game threads:
           *Votes from Sole Owners = 2 points
           *Votes from Team Owners = 1 point
           *Votes from non-participants = 1 point

Tie Breaking Procedures 

  • Winner of Pool Play Division if 2 teams have equal record: Head to Head winner.
  • Winner of Pool Play Division if 3 teams have equal records: 1. Head to Head winner against other 2 teams. 1. Overall voting percentage in the current Pool Play.
  • Placement of teams in next Pool Play: 1. Overall win-loss record 2. Overall voting percentage in previous pool play.

2009 ATMD Schedule:

Draft picking contest during first round of the NBA playoffs ( week of 4/20/09 ).

  • Key date is Friday 4/17/09 when everyone will submit their guesses in.

Draft begins 4/22/09, goes for about 4 - 6 Weeks total <---PLEASE NOTE THE CHANGE

Matches begin 6/1/09, goes for about 18 weeks which would end it around the first of October

Pool Play Round 1: Teams separated into four divisions ( North, South, East, West ) 
  Monday, 6/01/09: North-1 vs North-4, North-2 vs North-3
  Thursday, 6/04/09: South-1 vs South-4, South-2 vs South-3 
  Monday, 6/08/09: East-1 vs East-4, East-2 vs East-3
  Thursday, 6/11/09: West-1 vs West-4, West-2 vs West-3 
  Monday, 6/15/09: North-1 vs North-2, North-3 vs North-4
  Thursday, 6/18/09: South-1 vs South-2, South-3 vs South-4 
  Monday, 6/22/09: East-1 vs East-2, East-3 vs East-4
  Thursday, 6/25/09: West-1 vs West-2, West-3 vs West-4 
  Monday, 6/29/09: North-1 vs North-3, North-2 vs North-4
  Thursday, 7/03/09: South-1 vs South-3, South-2 vs South-4 
  Monday, 7/06/09: East-1 vs East-3, DEast-2 vs East-4
  Thursday, 7/09/09: West-1 vs West-2, West-2 vs West-4 + Transaction Period #2

Pool Play Round 2: Teams placed into four groups ( A, B, C, D ) Winner of each starting division in A, 2nd in B, 3rd in C, 4th in D
  Monday, 7/20/09: A1 vs A4, A2 vs A3
  Thursday, 7/23/09: B1 vs B4, B2 vs B3 
  Monday, 7/27/09: C1 vs C4, C2 vs C3
  Thursday, 7/30/09: D1 vs D4, D2 vs D3 
  Monday, 8/03/09: A1 vs A2, A3 vs A4
  Thursday, 8/06/09: B1 vs B2, B3 vs B4 
  Monday, 8/10/09: C1 vs C2, C3 vs C4
  Thursday, 8/13/09: D1 vs D2, D3 vs D4 
  Monday, 8/17/09: A1 vs A3, A2 vs A4
  Thursday, 8/20/09: B1 vs B3, B2 vs B4 
  Monday, 8/24/09: C1 vs C3, C2 vs C4
  Thursday, 8/27/09: D1 vs D2, D2 vs D4 + Transaction Period #3

Tournament: Seeds 1-4 from group A, Seeds 5-8 from group B, Seeds 9-12 from group C, Seeds 13-16 from group D
  Monday, 9/07/09: ( Round 1 ) 1 vs 16, 8 vs 9
  Thursday, 9/10/09: ( Round 1 ) 4 vs 13, 5 vs 12
  Monday, 9/14/09: ( Round 1 ) 3 vs 14, 6 vs 11
  Thursday, 9/17/09: ( Round 1 ) 2 vs 15, 7 vs 10
  Monday, 9/21/09: ( Round 2 ) 1/16 vs 8/9, 4/13 vs 5/12
  Thursday, 9/24/09: ( Round 2 ) 3/14 vs 6/11, 2/15 vs 7/10 
  Monday, 9/28/09: ( Round 3 ) 1st Seed bracket winner vs 4th Seed bracket winner
  Thursday, 10/01/09: ( Round 3 ) 3rd Seed bracket winner vs 2nd Seed bracket winner
  Tuesday, 10/06/09: ( Round 4 ) Championship Game

Contest Ends on Saturday, 10/10/09



Since: Sep 10, 2008
Posted on: February 24, 2009 11:18 am

2009 ATMD

Thanks for the invite, Nugs.  I did enjoy it last year and did learn a lot of history but I just lost interest too soon.  Count me out

Since: May 22, 2008
Posted on: February 24, 2009 9:21 am

2009 ATMD

Read through your comments...

Committee: I have not seen Brandons thoughts on this idea yet, but hopefully something like this will lessen his burden of being the sole "bad guy" so often.  I think it could work well, he could still be chairman of the board.  As much as we would like to say new rules are going to come up.  Probably because something that I am even trying to do, heh.  Makes sense to me.

Trading during draft: Trading draft picks constantly during the draft sounds fun as long as someone keeps track and you'd almost have to have a blog on it though.  That way everyone can see who's got what pick, or at least those of us that care to see those kinds of things. 

Trading unequal number: This is where the committee would come in because personally I thought it was fun to have uneven trades during this current contest.  That's how I was able to get both Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade.  If my team consists of good enough players than throwing in players might not get me the deal because those throw in players are going to be pretty dang good.  If for instance I trade 3 players to get Larry Bird and have only 8 total on my roster at the end of the trading period then the 2 players I pick up in the add / drop shouldn't be as good as anyone on someones roster.  I didn't see the big deal about it, but obviously many people were bent out of shape by the many posts concerning me having 9 people on my roster after trading.  The free agent pool in the ATMD is of course so much better than this current contest.  I'd like to have this, and would try to make a good argument to the board to have it in the ATMD.

Many items will need to be discussed, I should keep a running total for an "agenda" to discuss in the first thread, in no particular order:

  • Drafting Michael Jordan
  • Create a thread for the "live" draft lottery ( picking order ), done by Nuggets - my idea, heh.
  • Trading of draft picks or players during the draft, should we have a limit to them, who keeps track?
  • Trading unequal number and having to catch back up during add/drops
  • Trading max of players only ( for instance total of 5 ), no more limit on deals?
  • Then having a "drop excess players period" where extra players get placed in the free agent pool
  • Having a board of directors for the contest?  Brandon=chairman, so far WCF, Nugs, NH names in for members.
  • Announcing of trades, can someone go back on a trade in the threads, dcb/skins/wcj example of late.
  • Limits of gameplans, during pool period, during tournament.
  • Idea of putting up matches, allowing participants to argue, then vote, something along those lines.
  • "Counter-Gameplan" idea that Axe came up with, for instane 100 word rebuttal after seeing gameplan for adjustments.
  • Voting participation, maybe assign voters to particular contests, almost like the "Judges" idea, Board Members would have to vote on each and every matchup.
  • Having an add / drop between each set of games to adjust your final player to who your going to play against.
  • Number of players on the roster, 10 has worked nice, maybe we could have a total max of 12, then have 2 players be inactive for each match, and those would have to be announced.  This would then eliminate the need for adjusting teams to each opponent.
  • Having to announce your starting lineup prior to each match? - has come up, I don't support that though.
  • Requiring that each Coach list the minutes played of each player, no more "Match playerX minutes"
  • Requiring that each player be designated to a particular position in the gameplans, for example if you have Moses Malone, you must say that he's playing 30min at C, then 10min at PF.  Would really help on understanding someones gameplan *cough* NH *cough*
  • What happens when someone does not turn in a gameplan, once = forfeit, twice = removal?
  • Games that go into overtime or get "enough" votes, shouldn't push other games back to mess up schedule.

I am sure I am leaving out quite a few, but it would be great to get a good thorough list and have it by the time we post the thread so that either all participants or the "board" quickly go through and decide on the "Official Rules" so that someone can have it on their blog for all to see.  Reduce as much on the fly deciding as possible.


Since: Jan 20, 2007
Posted on: February 24, 2009 3:34 am

2009 ATMD

This happened...

Ok yea see I think this is BS. And I know in "real-life" this can happen. But in these, I don't think you should be able to rely on add/drops to get a better player. You shouldn't be able to trade 3 players for Larry Bird unless your taking two scrubs with him. I understand the point of this is to build the best team and maybe that should involve trading multiple pieces for one, but then you can get someone who could trade 7 players for 1 if he already has 2 premier players and then fill his roster up with "decent players" and all of a sudden he has the team to beat when in actuality that type of trade would never go down realistically.

 We HAVE to have trades available during the draft, it was so fun. But limit it to 3 trades from the start of the draft to the first game type of thing. I was gutted when trades were shut down just because some people "couldn't keep up with it" -- I think with me and wildcats keeping our spreadsheets, it always good.

I agree that trades during the draft are necessary. Even picks should be able to be traded. Yes, I'll admit at times last year it was hard keeping track of where everyone was ending up particularly because I don't update rosters on my spreadsheet after trades. I just memo them to a lower portion and then type in what trade the memo refers to. I think if you want to trade 100 times and you can make 100 trades of even players (as in number not talent) then thats fine. I even have no problem with trading draft picks but last year people didn't pay attention and were drafting when they had traded the pick most likely because they weren't paying attention to the picks they were giving away and name-dropping was happening. Thats the one thing that needs to be addressed.

 If not, I know wildcatsfan and I will be doing our spreadsheets - keeping a track of things once again.

That we will...

If we're having a committe I should be in it, I have to feel like I'm in power -- It's an ego thing...

Honestly I just put G8tor's name out there because he usually has been pretty active most of the time. I know he hasn't finished either but when hes in he's always voting or making suggestions. Personally I wouldn't object to anyone being part of the committee (yes not even Jakey) as long as they are unbiased and fair. Again, I don't think the committee should be making rules or making changes without the other members consent. I don't think we need to play a big role, just as overseerers to the whole process.

Since: Jan 2, 2008
Posted on: February 24, 2009 12:42 am

2009 ATMD

Brandon / The Big B will be running the show again as commish, but look for me / Nugs to be helping out as much as I can.  I forsee WCF having a big role. 
 Thanks for the credit there, and here's me thinking we were all going to surprise Brandon with a bit of a mutiny.

Since: Jan 2, 2008
Posted on: February 24, 2009 12:26 am

2009 ATMD

. Also, I don't think you should ever be able to have more or less than 10 players on your roster. I don't know what you guys did in this one, but I don't think you should be able to trade 3 players for 1 or 2 unless you can get back to 10 players before the deadline. You shouldn't be able to get a superior player if it means you can't reach roster requirements.

This happened...
However, I for one want most of the rules to be in place before the draft starts
I tried to say, well, now we've seen it happen, can we get a rule in place for the all-time draft -- but got my head bitten off, and was told to "listen" by Big

Don't try and put me in my place. You are not above me people! hahah


Anyway, yeah nice, I think Lakers2408 will be back, he was a dedicated member last time...

I also love the idea of live draft order announcing...

We HAVE to have trades available during the draft, it was so fun. But limit it to 3 trades from the start of the draft to the first game type of thing. I was gutted when trades were shut down just because some people "couldn't keep up with it" -- I think with me and wildcats keeping our spreadsheets, it always good.

Like we had an issue with whether a pick was traded or not last season, Wildcats just went "did you record that?" - "no I didn't" okay -- It's all settled...So having two guys keeping a track of that is sweet, and I imagine somebody like you could in your blog if you wanted it to be fully public...If not, I know wildcatsfan and I will be doing our spreadsheets - keeping a track of things once again.

If we're having a committe I should be in it, I have to feel like I'm in power -- It's an ego thing...


haha. :)

Since: Jan 20, 2007
Posted on: February 23, 2009 7:36 pm

2009 ATMD

personally I think these contests either need to be a dictatorship or have a "board of directors".   Right away I could see a board including Brandon, myself and WCF, and ?. 
I would really like to see G8tor be the 4th person if he chooses to participate. I think he is very unbiased and fair and brings a knowledgeable NBA mind to the decision making process. However, I for one want most of the rules to be in place before the draft starts. I hate coming up with rules on the fly as often it dictates favoring a poster over another and we don't need that. Get the rules down, finalize them, clear up any concerns or questions, and start.

Rules / Contest discussion thread, start a thread where the official 16 members can discuss particular rules, and most importantly create a blog that hopefully lists all the rules.


Yea, much like above I think this is necessary. Whether we go with 3 "officials" or 4 or 5 I don't think we should be setting the rules, just enforcing them. I think this thread should be started immediately upon the conclusion of the current NBA Mock Draft and I think petitioning for a thumbtack at the top of the boards would be a good idea. I think every participant should have a voice and as a group rules should be set in stone.

Draft selection Thread, wouldn't it be fun if we picked the order live in a thread.  I tossed out the idea that I get to pull the numbers out of a hat as part of the spoils of being the previous years champion, just would be fun.  That way me or whoever does it calls out one at a time, "the 16th pick in the draft goes to "_____", and so on up to the top pick, similar to the NBA draft lottery. 

LOVE this idea. Think it would be hilarious seeing the reactions as names get called out. Everyone much like an NBA GM would have their targets and it would be hilarious watching thr guy or guys if a duo react to getting the 16th pick after eying Jordan, Wilt, Bird, Magic, etc.

Draft Thread ( one of the best parts to the contest ), and as long as it's someone else, I think NH mentioned he could or maybe WCF kept track because I would not, we should do trades during the actual draft.  I will leave it up to the person keeping track as if there should be a cap, I have no interest to keep track of that.

Regardless of whether Im asked to or not, I always keep track just for the sake of making sure valid moves are made and just to see how the draft results and game results vary year to year. Also there are things you can pick up on from looking at previous years that can be used to your benefits which I selfishly have to keep to myself.

Trading Period, once draft is over and everyone has their full roster it would be fun to do a bit more of trading.  Personally I think trading should only be a max of players, no more max of two deals.  That way it's easier to keep track of, for instance you can deal up to 5 players off your team per trading period, doesn't matter if it's in 1 deal or 5 seperate.

Drop Excess Players Period, quick time where everyone who has more than the max number on their roster trims it down, those players added into the free agent pool.

Add / Drop Period, get everyone back to the limit of players, what ever that number is, 10 for instance. Then how about we just do it where prior to each and every set of game we have a quick rundown of everyone being able to drop / add one player.


Throughout the entire draft, we have trades of players and picks so if you can't make something happen in that time, then its your fault. I think once the draft ends, you should have to enter the first round of pool play with your roster as is and you can work on trades or add/drops after that set of games.

But thats something we can all discuss...

Now Im a STRONG advocate of the draft itself. I don't like any add/drops or dropping excess players until after the dealine. Also, I don't think you should ever be able to have more or less than 10 players on your roster. I don't know what you guys did in this one, but I don't think you should be able to trade 3 players for 1 or 2 unless you can get back to 10 players before the deadline. You shouldn't be able to get a superior player if it means you can't reach roster requirements.

The views expressed in this blog are solely those of the author and do not reflect the views of CBS Sports or