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Blog Entry

Vote for the Greatest SECOND BASEMAN of All Time

Posted on: April 2, 2009 5:44 pm
 
  • Thank you so much to all who contributed to the first baseman vote.  I was astonished at the feedback for such a blowout vote.  It should come as no surprise that Lou Gehrig was the runaway winner.   Jimmie Foxx and Albert Pujols were pretty much the favorites for runner-up, so I'll hang on to those guys for a later BENCH vote. 

I almost always do my new entries on Saturdays, but this Saturday I have a day long fantasy league draft with my buddies.  We've done this league for about 12 years now.  Its a keeper league and a money league as well.  This being said and having some spare time today, lets start early on the second base vote.

I have a list of who I feel are the 18 greatest second basemen of all-time.  Of this list, the top 14 are hall of famers and the last 4 listed are possible or deserving future hall of famers.  Due to a false notion of mine, I left Pete Rose off the 1st baseman list thinking that he played more games as a second baseman.  Well, I should have looked him up before posting last Saturday as he actually did play more games as a first baseman.   So I have included him on the second base list.   If he doesn't win this vote, he would make an excellent bench candidate since he played significant time in his career in left field, right field and third base as well. 

I am including my own style of fielding stats for second baseman and subsequent positions.  I've chosen NOT to post their lifetime fielding percentages because of the changes of fielding gloves, and the way official scoring has been conducted over the last century.  A .970 fielding percentage for a second baseman in 2000 would be consider horrible, but in 1950 it would be average and in 1920 that would be considered exceptional.   Instead I'm doing a +/- rating in both fielding percentage and range factor in comparison of that players contemporaries during their career.   So if I give a player a +.05 in fielding percentage that means he may have had a .980 fielding percentage when the league average was .975.   Range factor will be graded the same as range factor varies from year to year as well. 

Without further ado, I post my list.  I did leave off Hall of Famers Johnny Evers, Phil Rizzuto, Bill Mazaroski and Billy Herman because their statistics were rather miniscule both offensively and defensively compared to the other players.  Feel free to  vote for anyone not on the list, but be advised, chances are your guy probably won't win the vote.

          NAME                            HITS      AVE     OBP     SLUG     HR    RBI      Runs     SB      Fldg     Range

  • Rod Carew                     3053     .328    .395    .429      92     1015    1424     353    -.04     +.33
  • Eddie Collins                  3315     .333    .424    .428      47     1300    1821     744    +.12     +.24
  • Bobby Doerr                   2042     .288    .362    .461      223   1247    1094     54      +.09     +.45
  • Nellie Fox                      2663      .288    .349    .363      35     790     1279     76      +.07     +,54
  • Frankie Frisch                 2880     .316    .369    .432      105   1244    1532     419    +.09     +.41
  • Charlie Gehringer           2839      .320    .404    .480      184   1427    1774     181    +.08     +.20
  • Rogers Hornsby              2930     .358    .434     .577     301   1584     1579     135    +.01    -.15
  • Nap Lajoie                     3242      .338    .380     .467      83    1599    1504     380    +.14     +.69
  • Tony Lazzeri                  1840      .292    .380     .467     178    1191    986      148    -.01      -.15
  • Bid McPhee                    2250      .271    .355     .372     53      1067   1678     568    +.23     +.61
  • Joe Morgan                    2517      .271    .395     .427     268    1133   1650     689     +.04    +.34
  • Jackie Robinson              1518     .311     .410     .471     137    734     947      197     +.08    +.24
  • Ryne Sandberg               2164     .285     .344     .452     282    1061   1318     344     +.08    +.63  
  • Red Schoendienst           2449      .289    .338     .387      84     773     1223     89       +.08    +.40
  • Pete Rose                      4256      .303    .375     .409     160    1314    2165    198      even   +.08
  • Craig Biggio                    3060      .281    .363     .433     291    1175   1844     414      +.02   +.40
  • Roberto Alomar               2734      .300    .371     .443     210    1134   1508     474      +.03   +.33
  • Jeff Kent                        2461      .290     .356    .500     377     1518   1320     94       -.02    +.38

There's your list.   I have a good feeling this isn't going to be the slam dunk vote like first base was.  Lets have some chat along with your vote.   Have fun everyone!   Sorry about the crooked columns as usual.  No, its not you, whether you're drunk or not, the columns are crooked, but at least you have the numbers.    And to tell you the truth, I'm still a hunt and peck typist when it comes to numbers, so this is a labor of love. 

  

 

 

Category: MLB
Comments

Since: Dec 4, 2007
Posted on: April 8, 2009 11:33 pm
 

Vote for the Greatest SECOND BASEMAN of All Time

I'm going to have to go with Nap Lajoie.  Don't get me wrong, Rogers Hornsby's offensive stats are phenomenal.  However, Nap had great offensive numbers, also, and was a superb defensive player, too.  The middle infield needs a great defender -- his offense is just a bonus (and a pretty darned good bonus at that). 




Since: Jun 26, 2008
Posted on: April 8, 2009 8:02 pm
 

Vote for the Greatest SECOND BASEMAN of All Time

Great points and arguments by all.  Greatest second baseman is a great one to debate because the clear best player, Rogers Hornsby wasn't a good fielder, so that opens up the options with the great defenders who were also great offensive players as well like Lajoie, Collins, Sandberg and Robinson.   Although I'm not getting as many comments and votes as I did at first base, the second base debate is much livlier!




Since: May 30, 2008
Posted on: April 8, 2009 6:54 pm
 

Vote for the Greatest SECOND BASEMAN of All Time

This is an uneducated guess; since I'm not old enough to know any of them are. Know who Jackie Robinson, and Pete Rose, but am not old enough to ever see either one of them play. I'll go with Jackie Robinson.




Since: Sep 25, 2006
Posted on: April 8, 2009 10:36 am
 

Vote for the Greatest SECOND BASEMAN of All Time

This really shouldn't be close if people look at the history of baseball, but let me give you two possibilites and than what I believe if the correct answer.

Let me pre-empt this by saying that Pete Rose could be on any of 4 or five lists and that 2nd base is probably not the one he belongs on.

I believe that Jackie Robinson will get many votes, and rightfulkly so, but he was not the best 2nd baseman of all time.  He was the mos t INFLUENTIAL 2nd baseman of all time based on his impact of the game.

Thaere ar a lot of hall of fames on this list, but one stands out above the rest to me.  That is Rogers Hornsby.  Nap LaJoie runs a close second for me, but Ragers was a feared hitter with a combination of power and average not previously seen at that postion.

 

 

 

 




Since: Feb 3, 2008
Posted on: April 7, 2009 11:21 pm
 

Vote for the Greatest SECOND BASEMAN of All Time

 Rogers Hornsby    &nbs
p;     &nb
sp;  




Since: Dec 11, 2006
Posted on: April 7, 2009 6:18 pm
 

Vote for the Greatest SECOND BASEMAN of All Time

Sorry I missed the voting at 1B, Lazer. 

Tough call here.  And really trying to do this by process of elimination.  Pete Rose does deserve a spot on an All Time team and definitely a place in the HOF.  I don't know what to do with him really.  Don't think he will win at 3B, maybe deserved to be added in at 1B.  Wish we could vote for two at each position really but you got enough work to do.  

I have this narrowed down to five.  Rose, Rod Carew, Rogers Hornsby, Napoleon Lajoie and Jackie Robinson. No disrespect to Craig Biggio who I really like, nor to Ryno.  I wish the Phillies had held on to him (yes he was a Phillies prospect before being traded to the Cubs).

Like with Josh Gibson, Jackie played in the negro leagues but I assume those numbers are not counted here.  And his MLB career was shortened by service in WWII, lowering his career stats as well as number of years played.  And segregation didn't help either.  Talk about overcoming adversity.  Always loved Rod Carew.  Not a slugger but the man could flat out hit.  One of the best career batting averages of the modern era.  Nap Lajoie certainly played in a dead ball era but his other numbers are phenominal across the board.  Pete is great but he did play the majority of his games at 3B I believe.  He deserves a place on this team but I don't know if it should be here.  Rogers Hornsby could certainly hit.  And hit better than no one except maybe the immortal Ty Cobb. 

Very tough call indeed.  I reckon I will go with Rogers Hornsby but I was really close in selecting Nap Lojoie or Jackie Robinson.  Rogers was the best pure hitting second bagger in the game.

 

 




Since: Sep 2, 2006
Posted on: April 7, 2009 3:28 pm
 

Vote for the Greatest SECOND BASEMAN of All Time

 Guess I am old school, but I am going Rogers Hornsby.




Since: Mar 24, 2008
Posted on: April 7, 2009 11:19 am
 

Vote for the Greatest SECOND BASEMAN of All Time

Rogers Hornsby... another great list of players to choose from, but when you look at the stretch that Rogers went on when he hit over .400 for something like 4-5 years... are you kidding me... he was not only the best hitting 2nd basemanat his time, but considered by many as the best right handed hitter in all of baseball... he set a precedent that will never be duplicated... his attention to detail whe he approached the plate... I have read quite a bit about the player and even watched some game video of his performances... he would make the game look simple... hitting the ball just out of a players reach as they shifted two feet to their left... he would hit it three feet to their left... next time he would hit the ball three feet to their right... almost laughing as he ran to first...

There are some special players hee... Rod Carew had the best bat control of players that I have seen play... he batted lead off in an All Star game, do not recall which one... he actually fouled off something like 7 pitches... on purpose, before singling to left field... he was doing so to show the All Star pitcher that no matter what he threw, he could not get it by him...

Lajoie, Collins, Gehringer all played the game at a superior level... then came the likes of Jackie Robinson who revolutionized the way thegame was going to be played from that moment forward... Joe Morgan was a amazing, with the flap of the air in the box... Pete Rose and all those hits... followed by the likes of Alomar and Kent, Biggio and Sandberg... different eras resulted in different types of players... but all ofthese guys could play the game regardless of the era.




Since: Apr 2, 2008
Posted on: April 7, 2009 6:46 am
 

Vote for the Greatest SECOND BASEMAN of All Time

Once again, always hard to compare players that we didnt get to actually watch. I am going with Ryno, please.

Some of these players like Eddie Collins and Nap Lajoie were great for their time period....




Since: Mar 8, 2007
Posted on: April 6, 2009 8:01 pm
 

Vote for the Greatest SECOND BASEMAN of All Time

I hope its not too late to vote. Your labor is certainly appreciated Lazer. I pretty much decided on my vote and then read all the great comments.  There are a lot of thought provoking posts on a lot of great players. It is tough to compare eras and generations. I'll vote for Rogers Hornsby. Great job Lazer and bloggers. Peace to all.



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