Blog Entry

Vote For the Greatest THIRD Baseman of All Time

Posted on: April 18, 2009 4:07 pm
 

 Welcome back my friends to the blog that never ends, we're so glad you could attend, come inside, come inside

I should have started one of my rock and roll blog entries with that line.  Anyway, I hope you all enjoyed your Easter holiday and its time for me to get back to presenting you the greatest baseball players of all time for you to vote in the greatest team.  This week we will decide on the greatest third baseman.  My list includes all 10 of the third basemen in the hall of fame plus Chipper Jones who in my opinion should be in this discussion as well.  Before you ask "Where's Alex Rodriguez?", I already did the research and Alex still has logged about 500 more games at shortstop, so hold your horses until the next round.   I've research both the career offensive and defensive stats for these 11 players.  Rather than using the players actual fielding percentage I'm using a +/- system in comparing their defensive skills to that of players in their era.  I'm using the same system for each players range.   In the early 1900s infields were poorly manicured compared to modern standards and gloves were much smaller, so fielding percentages were much lower in the 20th century. 

Last week I posed the question as to whether or not Pete Rose should be a substitute or a bench player on my 25 man roster.   The number of replies and votes were light, but the content of those who opined was very solid and informative.   I'd like to leave that issue up for a vote for at least another week, as I'd like a larger sampling to make a determination, so please, if you haven't done so already, please go to my previous entry, read the posts and cast your vote.

Without further ado, here is the list of the 11 greatest third baseman of all time...Pick your number 1.

        PLAYER                                AVE/OBP/SLUG     HR    RBI    Runs    SB      Hits     FldgPct   Range

  • Frank (Homerun) Baker      .307/.363/.442      96     987     887    235    1838    +.07      +.19
  • Wade Boggs                     .328/.415/443       118   1014   1513     24    3010    +.12      +.29
  • George Brett                     .305/.373/.487      317   1595   1583    201   3154     -.02      +.40
  • Jimmy Collins                    .294/.344/.409       65    983    1055    194   1999    +.25      +.29
  • George Kell                       .306/.368/.414       78    870      881     51    2054    +.16      +.09
  • Freddie Lindstrom              .311/.351/.449      103   779      895     84    1747    +.12      +.11
  • Eddie Matthews                  .271/.378/.509      509   1453   1509    68    2315    +.06      +.24
  • Brooks Robinson                .267/.325/.401      268   1357   1232    28    2848    +.19      +.36
  • Mike Schmidt                     .267/.384/.527      548   1595   1506   174    2234   +.06      +.55
  • Pie Traynor                        .320/.362/.435       58   1273    1183   158   2416    even     +.30
  • Chipper Jones                    .310/.407/.548      409   1378   1382   138   2285    +.02      -.21
Category: MLB
Comments

Since: Mar 28, 2009
Posted on: April 21, 2009 8:37 am
 

Vote For the Greatest THIRD Baseman of All Time

Having seen Matthews, Robinson, Brett, Schmidt, Jones and Boggs play, I have to go with Mike Schmidt by an eyelash over George Brett, although Brett is one of my favorite personalities in the game. He played with such joy - always looked like a ten-year-old kid on a sandlot.  But Schmidt's numbers are too good to place him anywhere but first.

And I'll throw in a sentimental write-in vote for Buck Weaver, the only third baseman Ty Cobb refused to bunt on. (Yeah, I know - he played more games at shortstop. Tough.)

 




Since: Apr 14, 2009
Posted on: April 20, 2009 9:48 pm
 

Vote For the Greatest THIRD Baseman of All Time

I can tell you have read "Money Ball" recently


Never read money ball in my life.

 

 recently and now you have your panties all up in a bunch on how hitting with RISP is premium


What? I posted that because all these people were saying Brett was clutch. Well the stats show he clearly wasn't as good as Schmidt in "clutch" situations. I don't really care what somebody hits with RISP. I have the common sense to realize you can't magically get better due to the situation.

 

BA is overrated


It's a joke stat, always has been.

 

last I checked Billy Beane never won a world championship with Oakland and his approach, though I did enjoy reading that book.


Yeah mind telling me how many WS the Red Sox won since hiring Sabermetrics guru Bill James? Since hiring him they've been the most successful franchise in baseball. Bill James knows far for about baseball than you, or I, or anybody else on htis blog. Guess who he ranks as #1? That's right, the clear choice, Schmidt. This team losses all credibility unless Schmidt wins. Schmidt is considered to be farther ahead of the rest of the 3B in the history than just about any other player at any other position other than Wagner and Ruth.

Despite having 1500 less PA's Schmidt has a 10 point advantage in WARP3 over Brett including a better peak and the two highest seasons. WARP3 measures all around ability including offense and defense.

Looking at EQA, Schmidt has a .09 point advantage which is significant. EQA measures all around offensive ability including baserunning. Schmidt also has a 10 point advantage in career OPS+. It's pretty clear that Schmidt was the better hitter, and witha  61 run advantage in FRAA (fielding runs above average) you'd ahve to be an idiot to pick Brett. No argument can be made for Brett over Schmidt offensively and none can be made for him defensively. Overall, no real argument could be made for Brett over Schmidt.

 

you are making such a good argument that you pretty much have me convinced the right answer is Brett.


Well I wasn't on the fence about anybody picking Brett being an idiot. Honestly, anybody who thinsk BRett was better is, plain and simple, an idiot.




Since: Feb 24, 2008
Posted on: April 20, 2009 9:36 pm
 

Vote For the Greatest THIRD Baseman of All Time

I have always been a fan of Wade Boggs. He's my vote. 




Since: Feb 27, 2008
Posted on: April 20, 2009 8:57 pm
 

Vote For the Greatest THIRD Baseman of All Time

Oh you also forgot that Brett had over 1,000 more ABs 

Which makes the fact the Schmidt struck out more than twice as much in his career look even more ridiculous.  You know I was sort of on the fence about this debate but you are making such a good argument that you pretty much have me convinced the right answer is Brett.

But hey, for a person so sure about their stance you sure are defensive and offensive. I can tell you have read "Money Ball" recently and now you have your panties all up in a bunch on how hitting with RISP is premium and BA is overrated, etc etc etc but the numbers are what they are and last I checked Billy Beane never won a world championship with Oakland and his approach, though I did enjoy reading that book.




Since: Apr 14, 2009
Posted on: April 20, 2009 7:35 pm
 

Vote For the Greatest THIRD Baseman of All Time

Oh and for you people that pathetically still believe in "clutch players" look at the numbers.

 

Brett hit .307/.410/.481 for an .891 OPS with RISP

With men on base he hit .314/.390/.496 for an .866 OPS

With RISP and 2 outs he hit .290/.422/.464 for an .886 OPS

In close and late situations he hit .301/.391/.474 for an .865 OPS

 

Schmidt on the other hand hit .264/.400/.530 for a .931 OPS with RISP

With men on base he hit .273/.391/.535 for a .926 OPS

With RISP and 2 outs he hit .251/.410/.495 for a .905 OPS

In close and late situations he hit .267/.386/.504 for an .890 OPS

 

So, unless you're an idiot who thinks BA is a good way to evaluate a hitter, you can see that Schmidt was clearly a better hitter in "clutch" situations.




Since: Apr 14, 2009
Posted on: April 20, 2009 7:13 pm
 

Vote For the Greatest THIRD Baseman of All Time

What about doubles, triples, steals, hits, and runs... oh yah and batting average?  They even tied in RBIs.   So would I still be an idiot and you a genuis because you picked the guy with more homers and gold gloves?   I dont think there is a "joke" regardless of who wins.


Oh you also forgot that Brett had over 1,000 more ABs. But yes, it is a joke. Schmidt got on base at a higher rate and hit for more power. Even looking at BA is idiotic when Schmidt got on base more. BA is a terrible stat and dumb to even look at. Schmidt also had a significant edge at the plate. It's really not close enough to be a toss up, and picking BRett does make you an idiot.

 




Since: Feb 11, 2007
Posted on: April 20, 2009 5:01 pm
 

Vote For the Greatest THIRD Baseman of All Time

Call me old school, but I have to go with Brooks Robinson. He was far and away the best defensive 3rd basemen ever, IMO. He played in an era where there was no juiced up baseball, no watered down pitching, and for a time the higher mound.  He still had nearly 3000 hits. He won two World Series, one of which he was the MVP. I believe he also won the league MVP one year as well.  While his overall offensive numbers weren't as good as say George Brett, Mike Schmidt or  Chipper Jones, I think he was the most well rounded 3rd basemen in the game. It would have been interesting to see some of these guys playing back in the day or to even see how Brooks would have done in today's MLB. Thanks for another well thought out and well put together blog.

 




Since: Nov 30, 2006
Posted on: April 20, 2009 4:42 pm
 

Vote For the Greatest THIRD Baseman of All Time

 

Grew up in KC live here my whole life I am going to be the horse with blinders and take George Brett. O wait he has the stats to back it up not a complete homer. I am shocked that people are going with Robinson feilding is all that would put him over others and America is offensive minded like to see that though. In my opinion though it is a two horse race between George Brett and Mike Schmidt contact vs power and no real winner if I wasnt biased would have to flip a coin!




Since: Mar 21, 2008
Posted on: April 20, 2009 10:34 am
 

Vote For the Greatest THIRD Baseman of All Time

My first thoughts, before reading any of the ststa or posts were Brett, Schmidt or Robinson.  While Brett was stronger all around on the offensive side and Schmidt on the power side, I'll have to go with Brooks Robinson.  His era was not known for it's offense, but his numbers are solid.  His defense is what gets him in.  You won't find anything quotes close about the defense of the other two as what I read on an ealier post.  He was a true cornerstone of the Orioles defense for such along time 



MajorE.Reckshun
Since: Dec 13, 2008
Posted on: April 20, 2009 7:51 am
This comment has been removed.

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