Blog Entry

Vote for the 7 Greatest STARTERS of All Time

Posted on: May 25, 2009 5:53 pm
 

Hello everyone, its time to put us together the best pitching staff on the planet.  I'm going to ask you all to vote for your top 7 starting pitchers of all time.   I'm going to put 10 pitchers on my all time team.  The 5 man starting rotation will be the 5 pitchers who receive the most votes here and the 6th and 7th place finishers will be bullpen pitchers.   Next weeks vote, I'll ask you to vote in the last 3 pitchers on my all time staff out of a list of the greatest relievers of all time.  The reason for the 7/3 split in pitching is because of a much greater pool of starting pitchers than relievers.  

Before we get to the list of starters, its time to announce who the greatest right fielder of all time is according to the voters.  Thanks to CBS featuring my blog for a second straight week, once again I received a great volume of responses, so thank you CBS and thank you baseball fans.  Babe Ruth was the runaway winner by garnering 36 of the 62 votes cast.  Hammering Hank Aaron finished second with 11 votes, Roberto Clemente was third with 6 votes and Al Kaline finished 4th with 3 votes.  Frank Robinson, Reggie Jackson and Tony Gwynn all received 2 votes each.   Thank you to all who voted and extra special thanks for all the great talking points that were made to support your choices.  Had I voted, I would have to concur whole heartedly with those of you who picked Ruth.  He was a man among boys at the highest level until he was joined by teammate Lou Gehrig.   The fact that he hit more homers than every other TEAM in the AL TWICE is simply insane.  He was the pioneer of taking MLB out of the dead ball era into its golden age.  To me, he's more than the greatest right fielder of all time, he's the greatest player ever!

Several of you have asked about having a DH on my all time team.  I'm not going to do a separate DH position for this team.   After we're through picking the pitchers we'll vote for 3 reserve infielders and then 3 reserve outfielders.   Then after we're finished voting the all time team, I thought we'ld do a final vote for a manager for this all planet team.   

Now that all the position players have been determined,  here are the starting 8 position players for my all time team...

C - Johnny Bench
1B - Lou Gehrig
2B - Rogers Hornsby
3B - George Brett
SS - Honus Wagner
LF - Ted Williams
CF - Willie Mays
RF - Babe Ruth

2 bench players have already been chosen.  Josh Gibson is the reserve catcher and Pete Rose was voted as an all time bench player due to his versatility.     

Now we get to the task at hand.  I have compiled a list of the 60 greatest starting pitchers of all time.  The first 51 listed are all in the hall of fame and the final 9 listed are either still active, recently retired or deserving, but not in the hall of fame.   I am not including defensive stats on pitchers because I can't think of a single pitcher who gained his fame on his great fielding alone, they get their fame for getting batters out and winning games.   The only new stat that I threw in was the ERA+ stat which is used by some statisticians to help grade pitchers by taking in account of the eras they played in, ball park conditions, whether they pitched in a DH league or not and other factors that may affect a pitchers ERA.  The reason I'm getting this entry out a day late is that I had this just about finished, I was on the 59th pitcher of the 60th listed when I lost the whole kit and kaboodle.   Over 2 hours of typing down the drain.  So here's my second go around at this.   Without further ado, here is the list.   Please remember to vote for 7.  If you want to list them in an order, thats fine, but all votes only count for one vote.  If you can only pick out 5 or 6, that fine, but you're allowed to vote for as many as 7.  Here is the list.....

PITCHER                                 GAMES      STARTS       WINS      LOSSES     ERA      ERA+      WHIP      STRIKEOUTS      WALKS

Grover Alexander                      696          600             373        208          2.56     +135      1.121       2198                951
Chief Bender                            459          384             212        127          2.46     +112      1.113       1711                712
Mordecai Brown                         481          332             239        130          2.06     +138      1.066       1375                673
Jim Bunning                             591          519             224        184          3.27     +114      1.179       2855                1000
Steve Carlton                           741          709             329        244          3.22      +115      1.247       4136               1833
Jack Chesbro                           392           332             198        132          2.68      +110     1.150       1265                690
John Clarkson                          531           518             328        178          2.81     +134      1.209       1978               1191 
Stan Coveleski                         450           385             215        142          2.89     +127      1.251       981                  802
Dizzy Dean                               317           230            150         83           3.02     +130      1.206       1163                453
Don Drysdale                            518           465            209         166         2.95      +121      1.148       2486                855
Red Faber                                669           483            254         213          3.15     +119      1.302       1471                1213
Bob Feller                                 570           484            266         162         3.25      +122      1.316       2581                1764
Whitey Ford                              498           438            236         106          2.75      +133     1.215       1956                1086
Pud Galvin                                697           682            360         308          2.87      +107     1.191       1806                745
Bob Gibson                               528           482            251         174          2.91      +127     1.188       3117                1336
Lefty Gomez                             368            320           189         102          3.34      +125     1.352        1468               1095
Lefty Grove                               616           457            300         141          3.06      +148     1.278        2266               1187
Carl Hubbell                              535           431            253         154          2.98      +130     1.166       1677                725
Catfish Hunter                           500           476            224         166          3.26      +104     1.134       2012                954
Fergie Jenkins                           664           594            284         226          3.34      +115     1.142       3192                997
Walter Johnson                         802           666            417          279          2.17      +147     1.061       3509               1363
Addie Joss                                286           260            160          97           1.89      +142     0.968        920                 364
Tim Keefe                                 599           593            342         225          2.62      +127     1.121        2543               1234
Sandy Koufax                            397           314            165         87            2.76      +131     1.106        2396               817
Bob Lemon                               460            350            207         128          3.23      +119     1.337        1277               1251
Juan Marichal                            471            457            243         142          2.89      +123     1.101        2303               709
Rube Marquard                          536            404           201          177         3.08       +103     1.237       1593               858
Christy Mathewson                     635            551           373          188         2.13       +135     1.059        2502               844
Joe McGinnity                            465            381           246          142         2.66       +120     1.188        1068               812
Hal Newhouser                           488            374           207          150         3.06       +130     1.311        1796              1249
Kid Nichols                                620             561           361         208          2.95       +140     1.222       1868               1268
Phil Niekro                                864             716           318         274          3.35       +115     1.268       3342               1809
Jim Palmer                               558             521           268         152          2.86       +126     1.180       2212               1311
Gaylord Perry                            777             690           314         265          3.11        +117    1.181       3534               1379
Eddie Plank                              623             529           326          194         2.35        +122     1.119       2246              1072
Old Hoss Radbourne                  528             503           309          195         2.67        +119     1.149      1830                875
Eppa Rixey                               692             553            266          251         3.15        +115     1.272      1350               1082
Robin Roberts                           676             609           286          245         3.41        +113     1.170       2357               902
Amos Rusie                              462             427           245          174         3.07        +129     1.350        1934              1704
Nolan Ryan                               807             773           324          292         3.19        +111     1.247       5714              2795
Tom Seaver                              656             647           311          205         2.86        +127     1.121        3640             1390
Warren Spahn                           750             665           363          245         3.09        +118     1.195       2583              1434
Don Sutton                               774             756           324          256         3.26         +108     1.142       3574              1343
Dazzy Vance                             442             347           197          140         3.24         +125     1.230       2045              840
Rube Waddell                           407             340           193          143         2.16         +135     1.102       2316              803
Ed Walsh                                  430             315           195          126         1.82         +146     1.000       1736              617  
Mickey Welch                            564             549           307          210         2.71         +114     1.225       1850              1297
Vic Willis                                   513             471           249          205         2.63         +118     1.209       1651              1212
Early Wynn                               691             612           300           244         3.54         +107     1.329       2334              1775
Cy Young                                 906             815           511           316         2.63         +138     1.130       2803              1217
Bert Blyleven                            692             685           287           250         3.31         +118     1.198       3701              1322
Roger Clemens                         709             707          354           184         3.12         +143      1.173      4672              1580
Tom Glavine                             682             682           305          203         3.54          +118     1.314       2607             1500
Randy Johnson                         605             595           298          164         3.29          +136     1.172       4838            1485 
Greg Maddux                            744             740           355          227         3.16          +132      1.143      3371             999
Pedro Martinez                          467             400           214          99           2.91          +154     1.051      3117             752
Mike Mussina                            537             536           270          153         3.68          +123     1.192       2813           785 
Curt Schilling                            569             436           216          146          3.46          +127     1.137      3116           711
John Smoltz                             708             466           210          147          3.26          +127     1.170      3011           992

Thats the list folks, enjoy.  I'm sorry if I left off a favorite of yours.  I did leave 5 hall of famers off this list as I felt they had no chance of garnering any votes, but since they are HOFers, I'll give them mention.  They are Jesse Haines, Waite Hoyt, Ted Lyons, Herb Pennock and Red Ruffing.   I know the decisions will be hard here, but just remember, it took me many hours to put this list together and then post it here.   Your votes are very appreciated!    
           

Category: MLB
Comments

Since: Sep 2, 2006
Posted on: May 30, 2009 8:55 pm
 

Vote for the 7 Greatest STARTERS of All Time

Crap - this is the toughest yet.  I agree with the person earlier that said picking one out of about 20 was nothing compared to picking this 7 out of 60.  You could pretty much let us double the pix and we wouldn't have any drop off.  I got it down to about 16-18, and then had to whittle my way down.  In the end, I left off one of my all-time faves, who is underrated because he rarely played on very good teams, and added a player I hated because he played for both Boston AND New York.  I know baseball history pretty good, and I wanted to balance with players from across history.  I also wanted to be sure to get righties/lefties, and I didn't want to populate my team with just power pitchers, though it would be easy to do so.  No comments needed now, because cases could easily be made for many others, so here is my list, alphabetically;

Roger Clemens
Walter Johnson
Sandy Koufax
Greg Maddux
Christy Mathewson
Warren Spahn
Denton True "Cy" Young





Since: Apr 4, 2007
Posted on: May 30, 2009 11:35 am
 

Vote for the 7 Greatest STARTERS of All Time

 1) Cy Young- The award for the best pitcher yearly named for him, oh and 511 wins. Thats enough for me.

 2) Walter Johnson- The Big Train, plays his whole career in Washington and still wins over 400 games.

 3) Steve Carlton- First modern player,first lefty. Attitude on the rubber. One of my favorites as a kid.

 4) Greg Maddux- Mad Dog, should have been a Cub his whole career. My all time favorite. Best pitcher for this generation. Consistency 
      
;     &nbs
p;     &nb
sp;     &n
bsp;  personified.His 3 year run in early 90's as dominent as any in the game.

 5) Bob Feller- Easily should have 60 more victories except WWII took out 4 prime years. Clevelands best ever.

 6) Nolan Ryan- All those strikeouts, all those no hitters. The best right cross of any pitcher, ask Robin Ventura Surprised.

 7) Whitey Ford- Needed another left hander, needed a New York Yankee. He has the resume, unfortunately edging out a lot of guys I
      
;     &nbs
p;     &nb
sp;      also thought would make my list. I want more guys.

     Another excellent week of remembering our favorite baseball stars. Thanks Lazer.

 



Since: Mar 23, 2009
Posted on: May 29, 2009 12:57 pm
 

Vote for the 7 Greatest STARTERS of All Time

1)  Cy Young

2)  Walter Johnson

3)  Grover Cleveland

4)  Christy Mathewson

5)  Warren Spahn

6)  Nolan Ryan

7)  Roger Clemens


Great list btw.



Since: Apr 29, 2007
Posted on: May 28, 2009 9:45 am
 

Vote for the 7 Greatest STARTERS of All Time

It took me a while to sift these out and attempt to order them.  You dug deep for these Lazer...great job!

Bob Gibson
Cy Young
Bob Feller
Warren Spahn
Nolan Ryan
Sandy Koufax
Walter Johnson




Since: Feb 3, 2008
Posted on: May 27, 2009 11:23 pm
 

Vote for the 7 Greatest STARTERS of All Time

Wow this one is tough.
Cy Young
Tom Seaver
Warren Spahn
Nolan Ryan
Grover Alexander
Walter Johnson
Randy Johnson




Since: Aug 26, 2008
Posted on: May 27, 2009 11:17 pm
 

Vote for the 7 Greatest STARTERS of All Time

Bob Feller - My Dad's favourite. Back when the Indians could really play ball.Bob Gibson - Saw him pitch when I was very young. He was not afraid of anyone.
Sandy Koufax - One of my wildcards.
Walter Johnson - One of the most fearsome hurlers in history. 417 wins. Set the bar for K's
Gaylord Perry - Great all round pitcher 300+ wins. 3500+ K's
Nolan Ryan - The best pitcher I've seen Live. Great arm and all those no-hitters
Tom Seaver - No team would be complete without the ace of the "Miracle Mets". Rookie of the year, 3 no-hitters and Mets leader in career wins.



Since: Sep 30, 2007
Posted on: May 27, 2009 9:18 pm
 

Vote for the 7 Greatest STARTERS of All Time

Very difficult, but here goes


      
;     &nbs
p;      Christy Mathewson
      
;     &nbs
p;     
      
;     &nbs
p;     Wal
ter Johnson

      
;     &nbs
p;      Cy Young

      
;     &nbs
p;      Warren Spahn 

      
;     &nbs
p;     Bob Gibson

      
;     &nbs
p;     Sandy Koufax

      
;     &nbs
p;     Steve Carlton
      
;     &nbs
p;     &nb
sp;  



Since: Mar 8, 2007
Posted on: May 27, 2009 7:00 pm
 

Vote for the 7 Greatest STARTERS of All Time

This is a difficult choice. Thank you Lazer for all your effort. I will vote for Mordecai Brown, Bob Gibson, Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, Nolan Ryan, Warren Spahn and Cy Young. How about a write in for Satchel Paige? Your many hours are appreciated Lazer. I haven't read the other posts yet. Curious to see how the voting goes.



Since: Mar 28, 2009
Posted on: May 27, 2009 1:04 pm
 

Vote for the 7 Greatest STARTERS of All Time

This was a lot harder than it first appeared.  Comparing the eras was tough.  I'll try to explain my (alleged) thinking on this, because I made some decisions that may seem to be arbitrary. Ok, they WERE arbitrary.  First, I looked at each pitcher's career as it was in its entirety.  Not what might have been if they'd only pitched a couple more years (Koufax, Joss), or if they'd retired a couple of years earlier (Carlton, Sutton).  Next, I looked at ERA and WHIP.  I gave less weight to wins and losses, because: 1.  They depend to some degree on run support, or lack thereof, which is mostly out of a pitcher's control.  2.  Some of the old-time pitchers won (and lost) games in the late innings because they pitched a lot more complete games than modern pitchers.  3.  Modern ptichers also get the benefit of being taken out of the game and having a fresh pitcher hold the lead - a lead that a pitcher from 100 years ago might have been kept in the game and lost. 

Having said all that, my pitchers are, in no particular order:

Walter Johnson
Cy Young
Christy Mathewson
Grover Cleveland Alexander
Eddie Plank
Tim Keefe
Tom Seaver




Since: Jan 27, 2008
Posted on: May 27, 2009 2:36 am
 

Vote for the 7 Greatest STARTERS of All Time

Lazer, great work.  Thanks for sticking with it even though you lost 2 hours of work.

1.  Bob Gibson

2.  Bob Feller

3.  Nolan Ryan

4.  Christy Mathewson

5.  Cy Young

6.  Walter Johnson

7.  Mordecai Brown

Jeez, I could pick 7 different pitchers and be satisfied with my list.  Definitely hard to pick just 7. Thanks again, Lazer.


The views expressed in this blog are solely those of the author and do not reflect the views of CBS Sports or CBSSports.com