2009 Steelers Draft and Mel Kiper Sucks Thread

Also is anyone on board with Fleener? the more I think about it the more it seems to make sence, he could be the missing piece to take this offence to the next level but is he worth that 24th pick? maybe, but is he really that much better than Saunders, it will be very interesting to see how it unfolds

Fleener is a pick that I wont be onboard with unless it happens -- if that makes sense.


I'm fine with adding weapons to the passing game, but only if they are going to be utilized.


If Haley wants another tight end to add to the arsenal to run his system, I'm on board. If not, the pick doesn't make sense (Heath doesn't get enough touches as is).

Picking Fleener would signal to me that the Steelers have a plan to utilize him and do so immediately in the passing game. I think he'd be an upgrade over Saunders regardless, but I'm not onboard with mocking him going to us simply because I have no idea what specific plans Haley has for the personel of this offense.

Not sure any of that makes sense, but cut me some slack; it's Monday 

Should the Steelers show interest in Trevor Laws who is a UFA. Depth at NT position is thin with Hoke retiring and Hampton nursing a knee injury. I looked at his base salary and it was around 5/6oo thousand. Like Brandon Graham he didn't fit the 4-3 system that the Eagles play but might be better at NT for the Steelers. Who ever is in charge of drafting for the Eagles needs do a better job at finding players that fit there system instead of going after players who looked good in college. Laws is 26 years old , 6-1 300+ and a standout player for ND. He's probably best suited for NT in the 3-4.Bringing in this guy would help with not reaching for NT in this years draft.
What do you guy's think ?
 

159- meh mixed reviews. 5 technique depth, but this is a round early perhaps. Would be a good spot to grab a Safety

Definitely agree with this. IMO the only round you ever go ALL out BPA is the 1st round when studs are on the board (and then maybe in the 6th, 7th if all your needs are filled and you're bringing bodies in for camp).

At some point you gotta weigh need over talent. Obviously that sounds bad, but without nit-picking at it, I think most of you know what I mean. Anybody really think Gilbert was BPA overall in round 2 last year? Maybe on their board if they slimmed it down to just "need" areas, but not overall.

While safety isn't an immediate need, it's a position that is becoming more and more important with each rule change and one where we have aging guys and zero depth.

I hope they look real hard at safety each and every round (as I'm sure they will with G and NT as well). Depending who's on the board in the 4th-5th, I'd love to grab one there.

As far as 5-technique depth, I'm not opposed to taking a stud in round 1 (again, see above), but rounds 2-5 I just don't think it's a big enough need unless they truly are unhappy with Hood's development. Obviously if someone falls a full round to them and is head and shoulders BPA thats a different story.

Round 2-5 I'd like to see them stick to either: G, T, DT, S, WR, RB, CB, ILB and maybe even OLB (in no particular order). 

Also is anyone on board with Fleener? the more I think about it the more it seems to make sence, he could be the missing piece to take this offence to the next level but is he worth that 24th pick? maybe, but is he really that much better than Saunders, it will be very interesting to see how it unfolds, me I'd rather draft a big ugly but will the value be there, thats the question?

I am not on board with Fleener at 24. Your first round pick should be a starter, sooner than later. Heath Miller starts, to invest millions of dollars in a backup TE I think is a luxury. Personally taking James Hanna, or Ladarius Green in the middle rounds makes more sense.  Right now it looks like Green is moving up and Hanna is moving back, so it depends on how far they fall.

Even if the Steelers move back, I think Kevin Zeitler or Amini Silatolu help this team more than Fleener. Kevin Colbert came out and said this is not a real great class for TE's. That statement could be an indicator that they are not warm and fuzzy about any of these kids.  WIth Todd Haley, you are going to see some philosophy changes as well.

Don't discound a Fullback in this draft. I was watching the 3 headed monster tape from the 2010 Wisconsin team, and not only was the OL giving these guys holes, but a FB named Brady Ewing was pancaking linebackers. I will post Ewing to be added to the FB on the War Board, worth a shot.  Ewing was a ST standout, that really helps his chances of making the roster.

Should the Steelers show interest in Trevor Laws who is a UFA. Depth at NT position is thin with Hoke retiring and Hampton nursing a knee injury.

After reading the article on Depot about bringing in a veteran at the minimum, I'm very on board with finding a guy like this. Bargain shopping for potential NT's who are being used wrong is a great idea, and a cheap one (important given our cap issues).

Bring in a guy for a year or two to bridge the gap, while letting the guy showcase his talent in the proper system. Win-win for both sides.

The nice part about this, as their article stated, is that you can wait and see what happens in the draft first, since these guys are under the radar FA's. 

Should the Steelers show interest in Trevor Laws who is a UFA.

Trevor Laws, you know what, I don't watch the Eagles much, if at all with Mike Dog Killer at QB. He seems undersized, not sure about his motor. Is he an improvement over Steve McClendon, I do not think so. Free Agency is still an open market, the Steelers are like the guya at the end of a swap meet looking for a bargain from someone who is willing to deal because the clock is winding down.

Fleener is a pick that I wont be onboard with unless it happens -- if that makes sense.

Yeah I know where your comming from, If we do select Fleener we know the direction Haley is going in. Ideally if the coveted guys we like are off the board at 24 we trade back to the end of first or early second and pick up a 3rd or 4th rounder and select Fleener IF they like him.

I'm fine with adding weapons to the passing game, but only if they are going to be utilized

Agreed, but If the Steelers take Fleener they have to utilise him. The problem with Miller is that hes a good blocker and our O-line has been poor meaning hes asked to stay at the line more than we'd like, but Fleener isn't a good blocker, so when he's on the field he will be running routes. I do like the idea of playing two TE sets with Wallace and brown on the outside, I think we would be very productive and with the loss of ward and maybe cotchery, Fleener could be huge for us up the middle.

I think he'd be an upgrade over Saunders regardless

I do agree but I just wonder how much of an upgrade he would be over Saunders? to me not a big enough upgrade to justify a A first round pick with holes in the o-line to fill, but If the Steelers do take him I'll back the pick.

ny,

Has Haley expressed any desire in adding a "true" FB? I know Steelers fans have been pounding the table for one since Kreider left, but obviously that was unrealistic while Arians was running things.

Haven't read anything about Haley NOT planning to use one, but also haven't seen anything about him having definite plans for one either.

You going off gut, or has he mentioned the position specifically?  

If Haley wants another tight end to add to the arsenal to run his system, I'm on board. If not, the pick doesn't make sense (Heath doesn't get enough touches as is).

You can bet Haley is involved in the process and his track record is good. The last two drafts in Kansas City were excellent drafts. If he wants a weapon at TE I'm sure they can accomodate him in any round. He got Tony Moeaki in round 5 in 2010 and he was an immediate impact player.

Has Haley expressed any desire in adding a "true" FB? I know Steelers fans have been pounding the table for one since Kreider left, but obviously that was unrealistic while Arians was running things.

Not all Steelers fans ...

You going off gut, or has he mentioned the position specifically?

a combination of both, KC drafted Shane Bannon a FB nout of Yale at the end of the draft in 2011.  Arians was here long enough to close our minds on the position being needed in today's high power passing attack. A FB that can catch and play ST is a bonus. But a FB that can eliminate the LB in running and passing downs is pretty darn important. I like DJ Johnson as a person, but as a threat out of the backfield, his hands are suspect IMHO.

and as me and bb have stated, do not discount this kid we have on the Practice Squad, Jamie McCoy. Maybe Haley can find a way to tap his talents with a fresh set of eyes.  Getting rid of the buddy coach system will help this team. Ben needs to grow, and a new approach was in order. I mean come on man, the Steelers stalled in the red zone to the point where it made a lot of us sick to our stomach. First and goal from the 7 yard line and they go trips right....... ugghh.

RE: He seems undersized, not sure about his motor. Is he an improvement over Steve McClendon, I do not think so


Here's a report on Tevor's combine #'s back in 07

Indianapolis, IN (UHND) – The story for Notre Dame prospects at the NFL Combine this weekend was one of disappointment. Such was not the case for defensive tackle Trevor Laws, who may have cemented himself as one of the draft’s elite defensive tackles with an impressive all around performance and could be looking at being a late first or early second round pick.

Laws’s combine started off with a more than solid showing in the bench press on Sunday when he hoisted 35 reps of 225 lbs – second best among defensive linemen to Vernon Gholston’s 37 – and it continued Monday with testing well in both the 40 and vertical jump.

In the 40 yard dash, Laws turned in a best time of 5.08 – hardly blazing, but very competitive for the other defensive tackles. USC’s Sedrick Ellis, widely considered the #2 DT in the draft behind LSU’s Glen Dorsey, ran just a 5.28 according to the NFL Network. Prior to the draft, Laws had reported he was running a sub 5.0 40 on his website, but unfortunately he was just over that mark on Monday.

No other defensive tackle in at the combine recorded a better vertical jump than Laws’s 30.5”. Iowa State’s Ahtyba Rubin was second among DTs with a 28” jump.

LSU’s Glenn Dorsey, most analyst’s top defensive tackle in the draft did not participate in any of the individual workouts, but other top defensive tackles like Ellis and North Carolina’s Kentwan Balmer did and in the drills Laws ran, he tested better than both. On top of Ellis and Balmer, ESPN’s Todd McShay also ranks Aubrun’s Pat Sims ahead of Laws. Sims just edged out Laws in the 40 with a 5.06, but he also put up just 20 reps of 225 and recorded a 27” vertical.

When commenting on Laws’s strengths and weaknesses during NFL Network’s combine coverage on Monday, Mayock said he listed Laws’ height as a weakness, even though he measured in taller than Ellis, because he couldn’t find any other weaknesses in his game.

Laws’s impressive performance in Indianapolis Monday, combined with his strong showing at the Senior Bowl and his eye popping stats from his senior season have really elevated his draft stock to the point where people are mentioning Laws as a potential late first round draft pick.

In order for Laws to sneak into the first round, he’ll have to really impress some team during his interviews, but at this point the first round is definitely a possibility. Over the last three years, 10 defensive tackles have been taken in the first round of the draft so in order for the first round to become a reality, Laws will likely have to jump ahead of either Balmer or Sims on some GM’s draft board.

No matter where he ends up in the draft, it is more than apparent that Laws is drastically improved his draft status by coming back for his fifth year this past season. The same might be able to be said for his fellow fifth year classmates hoping to be drafted, but at least for Laws, it looks as though the pain of the 2007 will result in a nice pay day for him.

I am not on board with Fleener at 24. Your first round pick should be a starter, sooner than later. Heath Miller starts, to invest millions of dollars in a backup TE I think is a luxury. Personally taking James Hanna, or Ladarius Green in the middle rounds makes more sense.  Right now it looks like Green is moving up and Hanna is moving back, so it depends on how far they fall.

Yeah that makes sence, for me the only way they pick him is if they think he can have an impact similar to gronkowski or Graham which tbh is very unlikely. Zeitler or silatolu do represent better value to the Steelers IMO and probably will be higher on the steelers board than Fleener. I just have a horrible feeling that at pick 24 most of the guys we like will have gone with only Hightower sitting there who I'm not a big fan of. Trading back may be a good idea if we can find a suitor.

Forget Fleener at 24, it simply makes no sense.

Even if the Steelers move back, I think Kevin Zeitler or Amini Silatolu help this team more than Fleener.

If you make the decision who do you go with? I'm taking Amini.

Don't discound a Fullback in this draft. I was watching the 3 headed monster tape from the 2010 Wisconsin team, and not only was the OL giving these guys holes, but a FB named Brady Ewing was pancaking linebackers. I will post Ewing to be added to the FB on the War Board, worth a shot.  Ewing was a ST standout, that really helps his chances of making the roster.

Nice dig, I just looked this kid up and he should definitely be on the list. Possible camp invite?

I'm not sure Hightower or Glenn will be available when the Steelers draft, Perry either.

If that's the case I'm not sure what directionI would prefer they went in.

Talking long shots here but what if Barron were to fall down the board?

Talking long shots here but what if Barron were to fall down the board?


Steelers brought a lot of folks to Alabama to see these kids. There are so many good players it is impossible for me to figure out which two or three they are the highest on.

Path to the draft, they suck as a show, but have a good point. Teams need safety help, some of them are picking in the teens. Barron is a safe pick and there is jack for depth at Safety this year, the talent REALLY FALLS OFF quickly. 

Would Colbert take Barron over Silatolu, Zietler, again who helps the team more. sure it's BPA but who comes into camp and wins a starting job? Conversely, Ryan Clark may have 2 more seasons in him, and Troy P we love the Tasmanian Devil but his backup is not of Mark Barron Caliber. rewind to 2009 and Aaron Smith when they took Ziggy Hood. At the minimum Barron is a nickel back and a ST star.

I think we should add him to the War Board but behind the top OG's. Last year I totally muffed up and discounted Cameron Heyward because I did not the actual medical report on his arm, I thought it was more serious than had been reported. Barron has a shoulder and hernia right nowk seems to be healing.   Barron is currently owns a top 20 grade, I don't necessarily agree with that because I think the depth at SS moves his value up and is slightly inflated.

If you make the decision who do you go with? I'm taking Amini.

not sure if you can go wrong with either player. Let's try and figure it out.

Zietler:  weight room freak, film studying m0f0, solid big ten perfomer. Ceiling is close to being approached. Steady as a rock.

Silatolu: raw but very violent. Unlimited ceiling, the sky is the limit. Competition he faced was not all that great.

What is Tomlin looking for, that WOW player, that is Silatolu.  He also is looking for smart kids who live and study football, that's Zeitler.

We gave Zeilter an early third round grade months ago, still scarred from Kraig Urbik. Colbert came out and said it is harder to evaluate small school players. My gut tells me Silatolu only because I think he can play OT as well. Zeitler is the safer pick and the academic issues that Silatolu had or has may hurt his chances at 24.  The other thing working against Silatolu is he pulled a hammy and did not get to play in the Senior Bowl. IF he had played and dominated, this debate would be long over.

Should the Steelers show interest in Trevor Laws who is a UFA.

How about Aubreyo Franklin? Pretty good in the 3-4 with SF before being stuck in the wrong scheme with the Saints.

Also the more I think about it, the more it I can see Kirk Cousins being the pick in the 4th. Not very often Tomlin has dinner with a prospect only thing is will he be there? Can't see it, I think someone gets him elsewhere. 

Silatolu: raw but very violent 

Hmm....sounds like the scouting report from Kemo way back in 2006. But moving on from that I'm really pulling for him to be the pick at #56.

Barron is a 2nd round talent and even though he might be the best of the Safety class there is reason to reach for him.
I watched him play quite a few games and he is a solid football player but not a great one. A lot like Mundy.
How would he stack up against Earl Thomas ? Not even close but if he should fall to the Steelers in the 2nd round he could be BPA.
Almost the same thing with Zietler. Back in Jan/Feb Zietler was a 2nd round pick everyone has him rated at that but now we are trying to reach a bit for him at 24 ? If the player doesnt have 1st round talent dont take him in the 1st round.

I saw Kiper and McShay in Home Depot in the paint department. Kiper was getting a gallon of Minwax Clear Polyurethane for his hair. McShay was buying a 5 gallon bucket of Bear Safety Orange Flat Latex.

 I think I saw Berman there too, hard to confirm, there was powdered sugar all over his hand and his face and a jelly stain on his shirt.

Wow just read Evan Silva's new mock over at PFT. It is hilarious in how absurd it is. The Dolphins pass on Tannehill in favor of Coples, Tannehill goes to the Chiefs at 11, the Cowboys draft Poe (who already have a good NT), the Browns grab the 28 year old Brandon Weeden for their second first round pick, Steelers pick Fleener, the Ravens grab a freaking WR and Luke Kuechly falls to the Giants at 32 because "ILB is undervalued." I truly think this guy took a dart board with the top 50 players on it and, after pick #5, blindfolded himself and started chucking darts enthusiastically for each pick. I know the draft is a crap shoot, but this is insane...the Fleener pick is weird to me, but Reuben Randle to the Ravens is ridiculous.

Also, why are do so many mocks have the Steelers picking Mike Adams (who even is described as inconsistent in the draft analysis) and Coby Fleener? I understand the Steelers have OL issues but it comes from guard, not tackle. Also, Heath Miller is still pretty productive and I don't see wasting a first rounder on a player that isn't a "missing piece" as being worth it at all. Never once have I thought "having another tight end would really create match up problems" because we have one that can when he isn't being pulled in for blocking.

Because many of those sites are clueless. Mike Adams would just get Ben even more and Fleener just would be a waste. I firmly believe that Miller and Saunders can be a good TE tandem.