Over the next few weeks, NFL Writer Pete Prisco will be starting his series of NFL player rankings, and we're looking for good Community offerings to compare/contrast with Pete's picks. If you're interested, we're looking for your Top 10 picks, complete with a short piece of commentary about each.
Here's a quick example of what we're looking for:
Offensive Tackles 1 Walter Jones - Seattle Seahawks Walter Jones is the epitome of durability, and there's no reason to think that shouldn't be the case again this year. Since being sixth overall in 1997, Jones has started 180 games. Over the course of that career, he's been selected as a seven-time All Pro and earned spots on nine Pro Bowl teams. He also helped make superstars out of Shaun Alexander and Matt Hasselbeck . When it comes to OT's, he's as solid as they come. 2 Joe Thomas - Cleveland Browns Entering his third season, Joe Thomas has quickly made a name for himself among the leagues best. At a lean 6'6" and 305, Thomas exemplifies the new, much more athletic linemen that are becoming the NFL standard. Thomas has made the Pro Bowl in his first two seasons, and at 24 years old, is the perfect corner-stone for any O-line.
3 Orlando Pace - St. Louis Rams The reason the term "pancake block" was invented, Pace has been a top player since, well, forever. He started games as a true freshman at Ohio State. He was a Lombardi Trophy winner, an Outland Trophy winner, a Heisman finalist and a first overall draft pick in 1997. In the NFL, Pace has been a seven-time Pro Bowler and has a Super Bowl champion. Although he's experienced some injury problems, he looks like he's ready to start his career anew after landing in Chicago. I know, the example above if for offensive tackles, but remember...
This thread is for Outside Linebackers only!
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
1. Shawne Merriman. Steroids or not, this guy has pretty much destroyed competition since his rookie year. Prior to this year, he was the league's premier pass rusher (at least of linebackers). After three seasons in the NFL, he was averaging 13 sacks per year. He was elected to three Pro Bowls to begin his career and named All-Pro every year. If you want proof of how good he is, look at the Chargers defense from 2006 and 2007, and compare to this past year.
2. DeMarcus Ware. Merriman was taken exactly one spot after DeMarcus Ware. Ware started off slightly slower than Merriman, but emerged as one of the top linebackers in 2007, and he was absolutely spectacular in 2008, posting 20 sacks. I don't know how Ware wasn't named Defensive Player of the Year, but he was robbed.
3. Lance Briggs. He doesn't get a lot of sacks. But hey, he plays in a 4-3, and he's only 6'1" and 240. He's not going to rush the passer a lot. However, unlike a lot of linebackers on the list, I'd feel comfortable dropping Briggs into coverage - he's quick and he knows how to defend the pass. But I'm mainly putting him here because he makes tackles. And makes tackles. Plus, he makes tackles.
I've seen a lot of Bears games. Bears fans swear Urlacher is one of the game's best. That might be true, but I'd argue Urlacher isn't even the best linebacker on his own team.
4. Joey Porter. Porter's starting to get a little older (32), but he had a sensational year, posting 17.5 sacks. He's went triple digit sacks three times in his career, but I'm mainly putting him so high because of his impact. In 2007, he had 5.5 and the Dolphins won a single game. He put up 17, and they won 11. That's not all on Porter, but it's impossible to deny he really helped out the Dolphins' defense last year.
5. Derrick Brooks. This is more based on his career than the past few years, but even still, Brooks has never been bad. Another guy who isn't asked to rush the passer, Brooks has been the league's top coverage linebacker for as long as I can remember. He has 25 interceptions to his name and he's credited with defending 42 passes. He makes a lot of tackles in the Bucs 4-3. He's also a former Defensive Player of the Year, and he played a crucial role in the Buccaneers championship. I still think he can contribute to whatever team takes a chance on him.
6. Julian Peterson. He's been very productive for the better part of his career, and he was elected to the 2007 and 2008 Pro Bowl. He got traded to some high school team in east Michigan, so we'll see how he does there. I think the move should certainly improve the Lions defense, which looked pathetic most of last year.
7. James Harrison. WHAT?! The current Defensive Player of the Year and Super Bowl champion is seventh?
I know, I know. Steelers fans (and a lot of other people, too, probably) are going to destroy me for this. "James Harrison is the best outside rusher in the game". No, he's not - Shawne Merriman is, and I'm willing to bet he'll prove it this year. "Harrison is the heart of the Steelers defense". No, he's not. He started eight games between 2002 and 2006. "He was a key factor in their mini-dynasty". No, he recorded 3 special teams tackles during their first Super Bowl and I can't even find stats for him during the 2004 playoffs. I won't deny his great play during the Super Bowl this past year. I also won't deny he's lucky he was even in the game after that fight.
Harrison is talented. However, he played on a defense last year with James Farrior (great inside linebacker), Larry Foote (maybe the best #2 guy inside in the league), LaMarr Woodley (had 11.5 sacks in his first year as a starter), Casey Hampton (four time Pro Bowl Nose Tackle), Aaron Smith (one of the better 3-4 ends around the league), and Troy Polamalu (arguably the best safety in the league). That cast will help anyone go from pretty good to outstanding.
If Harrison can repeat his success once or twice, perhaps with a slightly lesser cast, I'll be happy to move him up the ranks.
8. Terrell Suggs. Is he a outside linebacker? Is he a defensive end? I don't know, but I know he's listed as OLB on NFL.com and I know he's incredibly versatile. He was the Defensive Rookie of the Year in 2003 and he's made the Pro Bowl three times since then. Another guy that has the fortune of playing with a stellar cast (in 2006, it was Suggs, Ray Lewis, Bart Scott, and Adalius Thomas...OUCH! There's also Reed, Landry, Haloti Ngata, Kelly Gregg, etc), I can't put him very high for the same reasons I have Harrison at seven. Harrison beats out Suggs due to the rings, although Suggs has more experience and been more consistent.
9. Adalius Thomas. Bill Belichick was very much unlike himself when he offered an incredibly high contract to Thomas, who was having a great year for Baltimore in 2006. The move paid off, as Thomas has notched 11.5 sacks since coming to New England - despite limited playing time in 2008, due to injury, and starting at ILB for the first half of 227. Most importantly, he was a force in the playoffs, getting five tackles and two sacks in the Super Bowl.
10. Derrick Johnson. He's only played in a 4-3, so he hasn't had a ton of time to produce sacks, and he's only had a few picks. However, he's made solid tackles game after game after game. With veteran Mike Vrabel in Kansas City, I think he has a pretty good mentor, and Dorsey and Tyson Jackson should be able to set the edge to allow Johnson to get to the quarterback.
I will now wait patiently for the bashing. Please, be gentle - those stones you throw hurt.
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
1.) DeMarcus Ware - His skillset can allow him to play just about any position in the Front Seven outside of The Nose and Under Tackle positions. He's an excellent pass rusher, fluid in coverage, which is rare for a 3-4 Ruissh Backer, and tackles well. What most people don't get is that it's his first step off the line that beats you.
2.) James Harrison - Speaking of 3-4 OLBs with a complete skillset, this guy is it. He might not be as athletic a specimen as Ware, but he outplayed him last year. Harrison is destructive in the pass rush, requiring 3 blockers in the second half of the season, but gets it done in zone coverage as well. He's always around the ball, rare for a 3-4 OLB.
3.) Lance Briggs - Far and away the league's best 4-3 OLB, I need to get him some love. He is one of the five best coverage LineBackers in the NFL, but does much damage near the Line of Scrimmage as well. He can blitz, cover, and stuff the run.. what else could you want from a LineBacker?
4.) Joey Porter - Everything I said about Harrison except for the three blockers thing can be applied to Porter, but he did see his fair share of team's shading a TE and FB to his side last year. Porter is one of the few players who can play in both the 4-3 and the 3-4 as the Strong Side LineBacker, and succeed because he has good pass rushing abilities and good coverage abilities. He needs to be a litlte stronger vs. the run though.
5.) Shawne Merriman - The league's premier pass rusher because that's just about all he's asked to do. Don't ask him to play coverage or stuff the run and you're going to have a premier defensive threat because he knows how to beat his man every time even if he doesn't get to the QuarterBack. He has a motor and keeps it churning.
6.) Thomas Howard - Also one of the league's 5 best Coverage LineBackers, Howard needs to improve his ability to play the run and he could find himself at 3rd or 4th. He's not asked to blitz in Rob Ryan's defense, so I can't fault him for a lack of Sack totals, but at the end of the day, when you need a guy who can play coverage as the WILL he gets it done.
7.) Julian Peterson - He's lost a step since he was a do-it-all kind of guy, and his pass coverage is questionable now as a result, but he still knows how to get it done near the Line of Scrimmage. If he doesn't have to move 9+ yards away from the LoS he is still a threat, and he is already the best Defender in Detroit without taking a snap for them. He could spend some time in a 3-4 at the end of his career due to pass rush abilities.
8.) Terrell Suggs - He's not an elite pass rusher, and only really had one year as an elite pass rusher when he was a rookie and saw 3rd Down spot duty. However, he has a good enough skillset to get him onto this list because he's outstanding against the run, decent enough as a pass rusher and sometimes gets it done against the pass. He averages 15.5 plays behind the Line-of-Scrimmage per year.
9.) Chad Greenway - He was considered the darkhorse between him, Sims and Hawk when all three were drafted around one another 3 years ago, and fell way back when he injured himself in the pre-season... However since then he has proven himself to be the best of the three. He may not be as good in coverage as Hawk, but he does everything else better.
10.) LaMarr Woodley - I'm a little wary of putting guys on here who onyl have one full year of production, but as a rookie in spot duty Woodley saw himself get 4 Sacks in the regular season. He has 8 career post-season Sacks in 4 career post-seaosn games, the only guy to ever do that. He's fluid in coverage, despite being a converted DE and looks to have a dominant career.
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
I will now wait patiently for the bashing. Please, be gentle - those stones you throw hurt.I will do that anyway
3. Lance Briggs. He doesn't get a lot of sacks. But hey, he plays in a 4-3, and he's only 6'1" and 240. He's not going to rush the passer a lot. However, unlike a lot of linebackers on the list, I'd feel comfortable dropping Briggs into coverage - he's quick and he knows how to defend the pass. But I'm mainly putting him here because he makes tackles. And makes tackles. Plus, he makes tackles.You say he makes tackles and tackles. Check some stats here. Patrick Willis and Lance Briggs, and see who has more tackles last year. Compare Derrick Brooks and LaMarr Woodley from last season. And let me no if you change your mind.
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
Patrick Willis and Lance Briggs, and see who has more tackles last year. Patrick Willis is an Inside Linebacker, for one, and secondly...Briggs has played more than two seasons. I'll take a productive guy with experience over a productive kid.
Compare Derrick Brooks and LaMarr Woodley from last season. Brooks made 11 Pro Bowls, including ten straight (he made it in '05, '06, and '08...so he can still play). LaMarr Woodley has played two seasons, and he's had ONE good year. I know Woodley's potential. He's a former Wolverine - I love the kid But you can't look at their careers and say Woodley has upstaged Brooks, and unless you're convinced Brooks is washed up, it's hard to put somebody like Woodley (who has FIFTEEN career starts) ahead of him.
So I'll let you know. Don't hold your breath.
Derrick Brooks was cut because of how bad he played last year. Derrick Brooks was cut because he's 36 years old and was owed three million dollars. Would you want to pay him that kind of money?
Seriously how does anyone put a steroid abuser as #1 on this list with guys like DeMarcus Ware and Harrison in the NFL? Merriman has passed 19 out of 20 tests. Obviously, he was not a constant steroid abuser. You cannot discredit his entire career (especially the 2007 season, which occured AFTER his suspension) because of one disgression. Hell, he posted 17 sacks in 12 games during 2006. Even with that one incident, he's still been a top player.
If he had done badly after his suspension and during 2007, I wouldn't have put him nearly as high. But he's upstaged Ware and Harrison EVERY season he's played. I'd say that's pretty good reason, huh?
Now, to be fair, if you want to mention his injury, I'll buy that reason. It's hard saying how he'll come back. But unless you're going to hold a failed drug test that took place after his rookie year against him forever, the injury is about all I have against him.
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
You can believe he was a cap casualty all you want, but he was cut because of poor play down the line including costing the Buccaneers the game against the Raiders because he was always two steps behind Michael Bush.
As for Merriman having done badly since his suspension did you actually watch his 2007 campaign or did you jus tlook at a piece of paper and pretend you saw him play? Because hw as average in 2007 and to say he outplayed Ware or Harrison that year is ignorance as both far outplayed him in 2007 hence the reason they were 1st Tewam All-pro's and he wasn't. Not to mention he was a non factor until about Week 14.
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
Call me a homer (Cowboys fan), but there's no way Shawn Merriman should be above DeMarcus Ware on anybody's list. Reason is, Merriman has something to prove after '07/'08. Ware has nothing to prove. If Merriman can go back to his old form, without the assistance of performance enhancing substances, and stay healthy, then he'll move back into consideration for a top OLB spot. As of right now, nobody knows if that can or will happen.
Ware, on the other hand, only has to do what he's shown he can do over the past 3 seasons and is guaranteed a top 2 spot on a top OLB list.
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
These are my rankings. All these players are listed as OLB by NFL.COM so if they're listed as OLB, I'm going to rank them as OLB's no matter what anyone says.
1. DeMarcus Ware-Amazing linebacker with great toughness and quick feet to rush the passer with. Hasn't really had all star talent surrounding him at LB his whole career. He's the main focus of the opposing team when they plan for the Cowboys.
2. Patrick Willis-Damn good LB. He may play ILB, but accoridng to NFL.COM he is a OLB. Willis is fast as hell, and is a great coverage LB.
3. Karlos Dansby-Awesome LB. Has really come into his own since being drafted by Arizona.
4. D.J. Williams-No other LB has done more with less. D.J. was the only positive thing going on for the Denver defense last season. He's played all three LB positions and has excelled at each one. A completley under-rated player.
5. Ernie Simms-Same exact boat as D.J. Williams.
6.James Harrison-I'm not impressed with this guy. So many LB's have played in Dick LeBeau's defensive schemes and have succeeded. I think James Harrison is a beneficiary of that scheme. Other LB's who have succeed like James Harrison were: Joey Porter, Kendrell Bell, Jason Gildon, LeVon Kirkland. 5 years from now, James Harrison will be a thing of the past, and the Steelers will have another dominant LB that will replace him.
8.Thomas howard-He may very well be the best coverage LB in the NFL. This guy is a CB/S/ and LB roled into one. He's one half of a 2-headed LB monster in Oakland. (Other half is MLB Kirk Morrison.)
9.Keith Bullock-Keith Bullock is the leader of the Titans defense. However, I think his stats and big play-making ability (Interceptions and sacks) will drop drastically now that DT Albert Haynesworth is gone.
10. Joey Porter-Great Pass-rushing LB. Really was the main reason that the Dolphins defense did so well last season.
Honorable Mention: Shawne Merriman, Chad Greenway. I don't consider Shawne Merriman very successful since he made all those plays while using steroids. He has to prove me wrong that it was really talent and not the steroids that made him a pro-bowl LB. Chad Greenway has had 1 good season so far, but in that season he was a terror for offenses and Greenway is an awesome coverage LB too.
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
1.) It doesn't matter that Willis is listed as an OLB on NFL.com, he IN FACT, does not play OLB. He's a MAC in the 3-4.
2.) DJ Williams is a completely average LineBacker. All he does is rack up tackles, but he's poor in coverage and poor and making plays near the Lineof Scrimmage. Basically he lets people come to him.
3.) Ernie Simms is an ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE PLAYER. He's not a playmaker, he's one of the worst coverage LineBackers in the NFL and takes poor angles.
4.) I wonder why Steelers LineBackers have had so much success? Because they know how to freakin' draft. I guess that means Manning isn't good since the Colts know how to draft QBs. Same with Favre.
4.) I wonder why Steelers LineBackers have had so much success? Because they know how to freakin' draft. I guess that means Manning isn't good since the Colts know how to draft QBs. Same with Favre. Well, not to a troll, but that is an absolutely terrible argument. For one, James Harrison wasn't drafted AT ALL. They thought so highly of Harrison out of college they signed him as a free agent. Secondly, the Colts have Manning, Jim Sorgi, and Curtis Painter. I would draft better back ups.
And the Packers? They drafted Aaron Rodgers, Brian Broham, and Matt Flynn. but I'll tell you who they didn't draft - Brett Favre. He actually began his career with the Falcons.
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
Not to mention he was a non factor until about Week 14. He managed to sack Tom Brady twice (better than anybody else did...), force a fumble, and record five tackles against the Patriots that year. Furthermore, he had a solid day against Kansas City in Week Four. He had a big game against Oakland in Week Six. He had a solid day against the Texans in Week Eight. He had a big day against the Ravens in Week 12. He had a huge game against the Chiefs in Week 13.
He also helped pressure Brady into three interceptions during the playoff game.
Saying Merriman wasn't a factor until late in the season is like saying Ware only had five or six games in 2007 which he was good- there's an argument to be made, I suppose, but you have some incredibly high standards if you believe it. I will say Ware did next to nothing in the first couple games, and he wasn't much of a factor (not notexistent, but not very All-Pro like) in Weeks 12 - 14.
As for Harrison, he only had 8.5 sacks in 2007 - 3.5 came in Week 9 against Baltimore. In 15 other games, Harrison totaled FIVE sacks. I'm sorry, but that's not outstanding. He had nine games where he didn't record a sack, and two others where he only recorded half a sack. 1 sack between those 11 games? Maybe he was great in coverage then. Nope. He batted three passes and snagged one pick (against Baltimore). Well, maybe he got a lot of tackles, ya know, run stuffing and what not. Hm. Seven games with less than three or fewer solo tackles (same number as Merriman, not including the game Merriman didn't play).
I'll admit, I didn't see a lot of Harrison in 2007. I didn't watch many Steeler games, so maybe that's the problem. However, I did see a lot of Merriman and a lot of Ware. I think Merriman was every bit as good as Ware that year, although there's a case to be made for Merriman being helped out by the supporting case.
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
You clearly didn't watch Merriman that year. Merriman was involved in 2 quick and early plays on Brady in the game and then after that he dissapeared. But by that time the Chargers were down 2 scores. You should know he was burned for the first score of the game by Ben Watson. So he far from had a good game.
In Week 4 he did have an excellent game including a 3rd down and goal stuff.
He had 2.5 Sacks against the 2nd worst T in the NFL.
So that means going into Week 12 he had an astounding 5.5 of his 12.5 Sacks. Dont sit here and tell me he didn't explode unti llate in the season
7, count them, 7 of the Chargers first 10 games he was a non-factor.
Meanwhile, Harrison may not have been mr. consistant in terms of getting Sacks, but he was amazing against the run with 55 Runs in his direction with a stop rate of 82% for 2.3 Yards Per Rush. Both ranking in the top 10 at 7th and 10th respectively. Harrison found himself in coverage a lot as well, but was only targeted 19 times. Only 10 were completed. Compare to Merriman having 42 Runs for a 74% stop rate and 2.9 Yards Per Rush. Harrison had an astounding 7 Stuffs against the run compared to Merriman's 5. Merriman was pulled from coverage responsibilities because he was such a liability and placed at DE in Nickel packages, yet was targeted 8 times... 7 of em were completed. Finally, Harrison lead the NFL in Forced Fumbles... You want to tell me how Merriman was better or how he didn't come on until late?
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
The point was his argument is stupid. It's not Dick LeBeau's system. It's the fact that the Steelers Front Office has remained the same almost for it's entire existence, so they know how to find LineBacker talent. It's not a system. It's the ability to find talent. The smae way the Colts find talent at the QB Position(Manning, Johnny U) and the Packers find talent at the QB position(Favre, Starr). The fact that you're talking about current players makes me question how long you've been looking at football.
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
#1 James Harrison - He is better against the run and in coverage than any of the other big pass rushers and is a better pass rusher than any of the coverage linebackers. His mean streak is unparalleled in this league.
2. DeMarcus Ware - Outstanding young talent, in my opinion the best pass rushing OLB in the game. His overall skills are improving every year as well. I expect him to be #1 soon and stay there for a few years.
3. Shawn Merriman - His talent is unquestioned. But now his health is in question, not to mention the worries one has to feel when he is urinating inside a cup. I think after that injury last year he may fall further down the list.
4. Lance Briggs - The best of the 4-3 OLBs, he is a total package and could find a place in any defense.
5. Joey Porter - His age has hurt his speed in coverage but he is still a great pass rusher and a solid tackeler against the run. He is one of the better players of this decade.
6. Julian Peterson - Forgotten about after a couple of years in the Pacific north west this guy still is as good as it gets. There really isn't a weak point to his game and I think his pass rushing skills would be more appreciated in a 3-4.
7. Lamar Woodley - In many years of watching the Steelers convert college DEs into NFL OLBs I have never seen one get it quicker than Woodley. His reputation as a pass rusher will grow immensley this year and his other skills aren't bad either.
8. Terrell Suggs - Plays the position like a DE. You wouldn't want him picking up a slot reciever in coverage but his aggressive pass rush and push against the run puts him easily into the top 10.
9. Mike Vrabel - He is certainly getting near the end but I think people are seriously underrating this guy. He was still a big part of the New England last year and will be in Kansas City this year. Leadership is something that has to be figured in with linebackers and Mike comes with that everyday. He is a knowledgable defender, a solid tackeler and not a bad pass rusher either.
10. Karlos Dansby - An underrated player on an under achieving defense. This guys is alot like Lance Briggs, its hard to find a weak point in his game.
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
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Prisco vs. Community: Top 10 Outside Linebackers?
You know wehat throw my list out the window. I thought Patrick Willis was a MLB, I would have put him #3 on my list had I not made that error. Here is my new list adding Patrick Willis and Keith Bulluck who just slipped my mind.
