How is there any doubt? He played with 6 QBs no help on the other side and no OLine to block for his QB or RB and he still had over 1300 yards and 12 TDs. Imagine if he had Peyton Manning throwing him the ball with Dallas Clark pullin over the safety and a good OLine to protect. The real list should be:
1. Calvin Johnson 2. Andre Johnson 3. Larry Fitzgerald 4. Randy Moss 5. Steve Smith 6. Roddy White 7. Anquan Boldin 8. Brandon Marshall 9. Greg Jennings 10. Reggie Wayne/Terrell Owens I put a tie at the end because Wayne is good but Peyton Manning makes him great. And when T.O. wants to play he is one of the best.
This list is 100 times better!! Prisco is an idiot! If i had to change something I would put Reggie Wayne at 9 and Greg Jennings at 10. T.O. doesn't even deserve to be on this list although he is a great fantasy option because he demands the ball and gets so many looks in the red zone solely because he'd cry if he didn't.
I like your thoughts.. And you make GREAT points of what Calvin Johnson had around him and the numbers he was able to put up.. But one could argue, the bad talent around him is one of the biggest reasons he put up those numbers.. Its easy to add 4-6 catches and 60-80 yards to your stat ine, in the 4th quater of a game in which your team is down by 3 scores.. Thats what the Lions was in, alot last year.. Now, Calvin Johnson is a beast, and maybe #1 on this list in 3-5 years. But now, he's not.. Randy Moss is #1.. Its no question what Moss does.. Makes Wes Welker Pro Bowler. Makes Matt Cassell get a big contact.. Got Donte Culpepper a big contract. And still puts up his own great numbers.. I like your list, but Calvin isn't better than Moss, Fitzgerald, Steve Smith and maybe Andre Johnson, right now..
The question is whether the poll is based on talent or whether it's based on best WR for fantasy.
For talent, I have to go with C. Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald (seen play live against WVU, unstoppable), A. Johnson, Moss, White, Smith, Boldin (after the catch), Marshall and Jennings.
For fantasy, I have to go with A. Johnson, Fitzgerald (Warner has yet to play back to back full seasons), C. Johnson, Moss, Wayne (no Harrison), White, Jennings (big contract expect big results), Boldin, Smith and Marshall (doesn't even want to play).
Whatever kind of homer you are you can argue for C or A Johnson, Fitzgerald, or Moss. I vote Andre Johnson because quite frankly Texans QBs aren't your Peyton Manning types either and Johnson has been rock solid for years and Johnson's supporters are on a level with Calvin's as well. The important thing is that Wes Welker isn't as good as Calvin Johnson. What an absolutely asinine assertion by Prisco. In reality ranking WRs is a real crapshoot and not so useful. I suppose that's true of all player rankings, but especially of WRs.
Although I agree that CJ will be number 1 or 2 for years to come (I think Larry Fitz is that good), You can't put him number 1 yet. Andre Johnson has been the only reason that offense has done anything. And Larry Fitzgerald is an amazing talent that helped his team go to the superbowl.
But I do NOT understand how he put Wes Welker over Calvin Johnson. Johnson is a freak of nature who hasn't even tapped his talent pool yet. Once the Lions get their offense in sync (which could be very soon with Linehan, better OC than HC), he will get even better stats than the really good 1300 12 TDs. Culpepper knows how to throw deep and Linehan knows how to call those plays from his time in Minny.
My question is where is Berrian....ok just kidding.
I am a fan of BB I think he is a great WR he just doesn't have the QB to get him the ball. Didn't he average like 18-19 per a catch? I think if they can get a QB that could threaten the secondary and the LBs they could be a real contender. Best Lines in football, O and D, and the best RB? Lethal Combo add a good QB and you can say serious Super Bowl contenders.
What if he played with Peyton Manning? Exactly, he doesn't. IF he played with a great QB he would be higher up the list, but the fact is, he doesn't. I agree the man is a freak, but a.) don't sell Reggie Wayne short because of who he plays with(the guy still runs great routes) and b.) when you have to say "what if" it usually means you're dreaming.
Calvin Johnson will be number one.. But Andre Johnson is more than proven and is still in his prime. Don't worry tho, Calvin will be the dominant WR very soon, hes coming into his 3rd year and will better his numbers from last year easily.
if we're talking pure skill, here is my top 10
1. Hines Ward haha just kidding
1. Andre Johnson - Big play threat EVERYtime he touches the ball. SCARY 2. Larry Fitzgerald - he's a Freak... Can can any ball and has great vision after the catch. 3.Randy Moss - I have trouble putting him this high. But the guy runs a mean Streak pattern! seriously tho, hes unreal. 4. Calvin Johnson - maybe the best Pure athlete in this whole group (aside from maybe andre johnson), and he's just stratching the surface. 5. Steve Smith - Scary good WR, electrifying punt returner. This guy needs no introduction. 6. T.O. - gets alot of flack but even at 36, hes hands down one of the most Dangerous in the game. 7. Brandon Marshall - Do not like the guy, he's a douche. But talent is talent and he has alot of it. 8. Greg Jennings - This guy is real good. Great speed, big time deep threat and has good production early in his career. 9. Roddy White - Yeah, he's great... But one year doesnt make him top 5. I was hesitant to even put him this high. 10.Wes Welker - Can make any catch, benefits from Moss but he's tough as nails and would be good for any team.
I ALMOST put Calvin Johnson over Moss, but I still think C.J. has some work to do to pass him.
Steve Smith and T.O. were pretty much 5 a. and 5b. for me but ill give Smith the nod by an ass hair. Whether people like it or not, T.O. will be in Canton one day and its well deserved. He's pretty much in the top 5 all-time in major WR statistics, love em' or hate em'.
Larry Fitzgerald could also be #1 as right now, he may be the most dominant of the bunch, but he has ALOT more help than Andre Johnson and that pushed Johnson over the top for me.
Umm, cause he's only had one great year, in his first two. How in god's name does that make him the best in the NFL?
The QB argument doesn't hold much weight. Look at Andre Johnson and Steve Smith, do they have good QBs? They both performed better than Calvin last year, and they've been doing it for longer. Proving that they can perform at an elite level consistently. CJ has yet to prove that.
I agree, of all those in the top10, he has the worst supporting cast. But you can't claim a guy as the best, based on hypothetical reasonings. (if he had Manning, if he had this, if he had that.) That kind of logic can be used to rank him above a WR with simlar production throughout his career, if that guy has better counterparts, but nothing else.
Is Cj better than 9th? but until he puts up more than one great year, he's not top5. period.
Calvin Johnson and Roddy White are going to have sick years. I am calling it right now. I think White may have the bigger reason with Matt Ryan having a full season of experience and confidence under his belt. We are talking huge numbers, especially if Michael Turner can keep the pressure going on the ground. As for Johnson, anything can happen, but even with crappy QBs he has gotten it done. Plus, they have the potential for a solid running game behind Kevin Smith.
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1. Larry Fitzgerald- Would be Andre but he just had the best postseason of any reciever ever.
2. Andre Johnson- #1 during the regular season. Him and Johnson are the 2 biggest freaks at the position. 110 catch 1500 yard season is definitely on the books
3. Steve Smith- Tough as nails and gets it done week in and week out.
4. Calvin Johnson- Could be #1 or #2 after this year.
5. Randy Moss- Doesn't bring it every week but with Brady back should put up huge numbers.
6. Reggie Wayne- 82 for 1145 was a down year for him.
7. Anquan Boldin- Another freak.
8. Roddy White- Breakout year. Him and Jenkins are a good tandem.
9. Greg Jennings- Breakout year for him. Needs to bring it every play but continues to improve.
10. TO- Really not liking this whole Buffalo experiment
10b- Brandon Marshall- Could be higher in terms of talent and production. Has a couple screws loose.
Woodee, you raise some good points about Calvin Johnson, but he hasn't done it yet year after year after year. A Johnson has. And there's a flaw in your logic. If we follow your logic, then we couldn't consider Jerry Rice to be the greatest receiver ever because of who threw him the ball. Bad call on TO, though. The dude has brick hands all too often.
your point is so so but calvin is a good up and coming reciever but you cant make him number one receiver after one good year. I cant buy that story. he is in the top five maybe number five not number one. He hasnt started to see the double teams yet. I know he faced a great deal of odds at detroit with that offense overall and he provailed but just hold your horse for a minute and let him put up some numbers with some consistency first before we make him number one.
How is there any doubt? He played with 6 QBs no help on the other side and no OLine to block for his QB or RB and he still had over 1300 yards and 12 TDs. Imagine if he had Peyton Manning throwing him the ball with Dallas Clark pullin over the safety and a good OLine to protect. The real list should be:What's your point here? Prisco has Andre Johnson as number one. Guess what? Johnson had EXACTLY the same as Calvin Johnson during his career and he still went to probowls and posted the numbers as well. A.J. had a team with the worst offensive line recorded in the history of the league and was still going to the probowl. A.J. had David Carr, Tony Banks, Matt Schaub (who is actually the most descent one though injured often) and Sage Rosenthels. So that arguement can go for A.J. as well and that seems to be the whole meat of your discussion.
Secondly stating that what if so and so had such and such at quarterback is also pointless. Anthony Gonzales has Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne and Peyton Manning on his team. Has he emerged like they had hoped he would? No, he hasn't. Why? Because despite your quarterback and surrounding teammates you still have to develop and become a player yourself. Also there are some who perform despite their quarterback's ability when it comes to receiver. Read Prisco's list again and see an example in Roddy White who had two strong season and only one of those with Matt Ryan. Also see the top ten in stats for receivers last season and you will see Dwayne Bowie from the Chiefs. His quarterback situation was worst than the Lions!
Also you are just being a fan and ignoring other factors. Is Calvin Johnson good? Damn right. I would put him pretty much where Prisco has him. But his catch percentage was horrid last season. Here is his catch percentage compared to Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald:
Andre Johnson - 67.6% Larry Fitzgerald - 62.3% Calvin Johnson - 51.7%
So just because he had a subpar offensive line blocking for his medicore quarterbacks he should vault into the top spot over a guy who has done the same thing in his career...consistently and who posted better numbers than he did? How much sense does that really make? No one is saying Calvin is not talented. They would have to be an idiot to do so. But acting like those they rated above him have not earned their spot is a larger stretch.
Calvin Johnson and Andre Johnson would be number one if they had Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner, Tom Brady, Tony Romo, Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, Jay Cutler, or Ladanian Tomlinson throwing to them, but they don't. So, how can you say, that they are number one because they put these numbers up without them. Logically Fallacious.
How is there any doubt? He played with 6 QBs no help on the other side and no OLine to block for his QB or RB and he still had over 1300 yards and 12 TDs. Imagine if he had Peyton Manning throwing him the ball with Dallas Clark pullin over the safety and a good OLine to protect. The real list should be:
1. Calvin Johnson 2. Andre Johnson 3. Larry Fitzgerald 4. Randy Moss 5. Steve Smith 6. Roddy White 7. Anquan Boldin 8. Brandon Marshall 9. Greg Jennings 10. Reggie Wayne/Terrell Owens I put a tie at the end because Wayne is good but Peyton Manning makes him great. And when T.O. wants to play he is one of the best. Your argument is, if he had Peyton Manning, then he would be the best. Therefore, he doesn't have Peyton Manning, and still puts up these numbers, so he would be the best.
A typical case of denying the anteceden and affirming his conclusion.
Let me help you out here Bro, cause i believe If he were the best, he woudl have to have someone throw to him, but because he doesn't, he can't be the best.
Take a Logic class and you will be fine. As for Megatron, like Barry Sanders he is confined to the aweful lions. Hopefully stafford can put it together, and then they can draft some lineman to help that situation.
