The QB argument doesn't hold much weight. Look at Andre Johnson and Steve Smith, do they have good QBs? They both performed better than Calvin last year, and they've been doing it for longer. Proving that they can perform at an elite level consistently. CJ has yet to prove that.
Just to let you know.........Calvin Johnsons BEST qb last year signed up as Andre Johnsons qb's BACKUP ..
Fantasy geeks at it again. So AJ is overrated because he doesn't put up as many fantasy points and score as many TDs as Fitzgerald? Freaking fantasy geeks. Here's one for ya - how many games last season did Fitzgerald have 10 receptions or more? One. How many did Andre Johnson have? Seven. How many other 1000 yard WRs played with Fitzgerald? Two. AJ? Zero. Who had the better ground game? Steve Slaton led the NFL in total yards from scrimmage and scored 9 TDs. Arizona? Well, just ask Edge.
What I'm getting at is that all Arizona did last season was throw the ball. Fitzgerald and Boldin had double digit TDs. But on the Texans, AJ had 8, K-Dub had 8, and Slaton had 9. The Texans had a lot more balance on offense than the Cardinals. Had the Texans threw the ball more, who knows what AJ's stats would have been.
I can't believe that anyone would put Calvin Johnson at #4 ahead of Steve Smith, Reggie Wayne, or even Brandon Marshall (we're not going to even discuss this ridiculous "Calvin Johnson is #1" garbage). Calvin Johnson is good, but he has to put some consistency under his belt before I even put him in my Top 5.
Yeah, cause Steve Smith has been so consistent throughout his career, right? And Brandon Marshall scores so many touchdowns and will definitely play well this year after crying like a bitch that he doesn't want to play in Denver.
Look, Calvin Johnson isn't the number 1 WR right now. But for those of you saying he needs to prove his worth by posting at least another or more strong seasons statistically I would say just watch this coming season. The Lions, just by having a decent/good draft for a change, will be better. I expect that initially teams blatantly still key on CJ, but if the running game improves at all and Brandon Pettigrew has any impact, CJ could be freed up just that little bit to allow him to post better numbers than last year. Even people who are saying he doesn't belong in the top 5 right now have acknowledged he's got tons of talent. He improves some, the team around him improves some (how can they not?) and walla he suddenly 'performs' (stats-wise) even better than last season.
As a fan within the same division CJ plays in I can see him progressing up the WR charts. Hell neither Packers W vs the Lions last year was entirely convincing (Lions actually led 25-24 early in the 4th in one of them). The Bears defense is not what it was just a couple years ago. And the Vikings have a very good run D, but their pass D doesn't exactly strike fear in opponents. So, you can see Calvin having some good games within the division, not to mention vs some other teams on their schedule.
What I'm getting at is that all Arizona did last season was throw the ball. Fitzgerald and Boldin had double digit TDs. But on the Texans, AJ had 8, K-Dub had 8, and Slaton had 9. The Texans had a lot more balance on offense than the Cardinals. Had the Texans threw the ball more, who knows what AJ's stats would have been. Larry is more consistent week in and week out, and his YPC average is about a yard higher than Johnson's.
Johnson has the benefit of a running game, which makes passing the ball a lot easier. Don't try and pretend that having a good running game makes passing more difficult, because that's just insane.
AJ is overrated because he averages about 5 touchdowns a year, compared to Fitzgerald's 9. AJ is overrated because he can disappear during games. Last season there were FIVE games in which he had zero touchdowns AND less than 70 yards recieving. Fitzgerald either scored a touchdown or had 70+ yards recieving in every game but one last year.
Larry has scored 46 touchdowns to Johnson's 33, even though he's only been in the league for 5 years and Johnson's been here for 6.
Last year, 1 out of every 8 catches by Larry was a TD.
Johnson? about 1 out of ever 12 was a TD.
Larry has fewer catches (by 60), but he's scored more touchdowns and has a higher YPC average, which means HE DOES MORE with the opportunities he's given.
I hear ya, about CJ being hurt. But, why does that matter in this conversation. Except that it shows he can get hurt. So he was hurt and didn't produce as well. That's part of the game. I didn't say it was a bad year because he was bad. BUT, as an NFL player, all he has PROVEN, is that he can have 1 great year.
How ironic to hear a Panthers fan talk about how a WR needs to perform well for more than one year before he can be crowned "great".
I'd bet that every Panthers fan was on Steve Smith bandwagon after 2003, when he had 1,100+ yards and 11 TD. What happened in 2004? He played just ONE regular season game because of injury. Then everyone was back on the wagon for 2005. What happened? He had a ton of recieving yards, but couldn't find the endzone to save his life, catching just 4 TD passes all season.
People kept saying, "Just wait until next year, he's one of the best and he'll prove it." "He's gonna have 1,500 yards and 10 touchdowns next year..." "blah, blah, blah."
I hate that I have to point this out, cause I love the guy, but... before last year, his numbers were steadily declining year after year. His YPC average was going down, and the only season he's ever scored more than 8 recieving touchdowns was SIX YEARS AGO!
Smith is good, really good. But not elite. He's the definition of inconsistency.
I'd bet that every Panthers fan was on Steve Smith bandwagon after 2003, when he had 1,100+ yards and 11 TD.
Then you'd bet wrong. Carolina fans were excited about Smith after 2003, ofcourse we were. He came out of nowhere as a pro bowl returner to leading us to the super bowl in his first year as our #1 WR. We saw the potential for greatness he had, but it wasn't til we saw him lead the league in yards, receptions, and tds, in 2005, in his comeback effort after missing 2004 from an illegal horse-collar that took him out. That was when we knew how great he was, and then it wasn't til 2006, when he had another 1000+ yard season, that we thought he was top5 material. What really sealed it, was when after he got the starting role, the #1 spot, 6 years ago, he's had five 1000+ yard seasons, two 1400+, with the only year that he didn't get over 1000 yards was the year he was out due to injury. He had a ton of recieving yards, but couldn't find the endzone to save his life, catching just 4 TD passes all season. I'm not sure you've done your research. In 2005, he led the league in TDs, with 12 (13 total). Nice try though.
There was a decline last year, but that is where panther fans can say they had worse QB qualms than even Detriot. Smith had Grandpa Vinny, David "the most sacked QB in NFL history" Carr, and undrafted FA Matt Moore, and delhomme for 2 games all throwing him the ball. And he still broke 1000 yards.
Look it up, look at the WRs you call elite, then tell me how many of them have had 4 straight 1000+ yard seasons. Go ahead. Then come back and take your foot out of your mouth. (I'll give you a hint, not Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, TO, or Randy Moss)
If you think he's the "definition of inconsistency", then you need to check the dictionary.
Just to let you know.........Calvin Johnsons BEST qb last year signed up as Andre Johnsons qb's BACKUP
Listen guys, I'm not saying, that when looking at CJ's performance, and how good he is, that the QB's he had throwing him the ball doesn't say alot about how good he is. What I said, and am saying, is you can't use just that and one great year to say he is the best WR in the league.
CALVIN JOHNSON IS A BIG FAT LOSER JUST LIKE HIS TEAM! EVEN THE SAINTS BEAT THEM LAST YEAR. I DON'T WANT HIM ON MY FANASTY TEAM. WHO IS GOING TO THROW TO HIM ANYWAY. CULPEPPER OR STAFFORD YEAH RIGHT.
Oh, good stuff fuutballer1281. I guess you got me. Well, not really. Here's one more thing you forgot to factor in - Andre Johnson plays in the AFC South. He doesn't get to play against the Rams, 49ers, and Seahawks twice a year. No, he's busy competing against the Titans, Colts, and Jags. AJ competes against teams with a combined record of 30-18 (the Jags had 11 of those losses) versus Fitzgerald competing against teams with a combined record of 13-35! He's supposed to have more TDs than AJ because the teams he's playing against 6 teams every year are complete garbage.
I'm not even a Panthers fan, but Steve Smith is the best pound-for-pound WR in the game. He's put up the numbers he has without ever having even another decent WR threat helping him. He's the Manny Pacquiao of the NFL WRs.
Look, Calvin Johnson isn't the number 1 WR right now. But for those of you saying he needs to prove his worth by posting at least another or more strong seasons statistically I would say just watch this coming season. The Lions, just by having a decent/good draft for a change, will be better. I expect that initially teams blatantly still key on CJ, but if the running game improves at all and Brandon Pettigrew has any impact, CJ could be freed up just that little bit to allow him to post better numbers than last year. Even people who are saying he doesn't belong in the top 5 right now have acknowledged he's got tons of talent. He improves some, the team around him improves some (how can they not?) and walla he suddenly 'performs' (stats-wise) even better than last season.
As a fan within the same division CJ plays in I can see him progressing up the WR charts. Hell neither Packers W vs the Lions last year was entirely convincing (Lions actually led 25-24 early in the 4th in one of them). Nice post, gbfann. I think having Bryant Johnson and Dennis Northcutt on the other side (in addition to Pettigrew) will help ease at least some of the coverage on CJ. They're not superstar receivers, but they beat the hell out of Shaun McDonald and Mike Furrey.
I was at that game you mentioned (only one I went to last year). CJ caught two TD passes. On one of them, he not only made a ridiculous catch on a pass thrown behind his helmet, he broke free from the two defenders draped all over him and darter 30 more yards for the score.
I realize he has to wait his turn to pass up established pros like AJ, Fitz and Moss. But like you, I'm convinced there will be no more doubters after next season.
Thanks howie, and nice follow up by yourself. Yeah Detroit has taken big steps in several ways this off-season, players acquired, mgt changes... They won't be world beaters by any stretch, but substantial improvement is certainly on the cards. Having some other 'serviceable' (or potentially better with Pettigrew) receiveing options will help Calvin and whoever is playing QB.
the top 10 WR list that included this:
Houshmanzadeh 3 and Ochocinco 7. Wow that is ridiculous. made me laugh. despite trying to be THE guy for the Seahawks hoosyermomma might post some decent numbers anyway considering that division, but so could yermomma or mymomma! As for Chad Johnson (or the artist formerly know as) his head seems to be so far up his own A&& that I'd say the Bengals are in for a long year as usual. Shame, he probably could have been an elite WR for many seasons.
Bling...1052 yds is NOT a good year for an "Elite" WR, sure he had TD's but Steve Breaston went over 1000 and and around like 7 tds i think for christ sake so is he elite too??
You didn't say T.O. was better but you did call me out for saying he dropped passes and in my list CJ was the only WR i had listed that was on the same list worth mentioning with one less drop than T.O. so after being called out i asked who people would rather have on their team and we see that CJ is a monster and T.O. isn't being mentioned in comparison until proven otherwise at this point in his career and then you agreed that CJ was better so you shouldn't call people out when you don't even have a real point. All I'm sayin.
"So let me get this straight, you were discrediting what I said, without reading what I said?
Good work"
I was agreeing with the other posters comments, I had no idea who you were or what you said I was just commenting on the other posters comment.
"How exactly do you yell at people on a message board?"
all caps sentences implies yelling, and typically a bit a douchebaggery
"What I said was not just aimed at you"
quoting my comments and attacking them typically arent a good way of not aiming at me. But I do appreciate the acknowledgement. Good job and thank you now dont think you are a dick haha
Maybe I can clear up some confusion. You are a Carolina fan who doesnt particulary think that Delhomme is very good. BUt when you say to people who have watched the lions all year that both teams QB's are bad, it gives the impression that you are putting both Qb situations in the same category, differing ends of the "bad qb spectrum" but the same category. We are going to just have to agree to disagree because we have differing comprehentions of what bad really is haha.
As far as CJ goes, I never stated that he is the best or the most talented. I gauge talent by performance, physical ability, managing teammates, being a leader, etc. Its not a one dimensional thing. I think that CJ arguably is one of if not the most talented WR in the NFL but I still wouldnt say he is the best. Because like you SSmith for Prez I feel that to be ranked number one you have to earn it with consistant performance. I do however think that if you are on a bad team and still do great, but not as great as someone on a good or awesome team that you may very well be a better player.
At the end of the day, I dont care where he is ranked (but i think we can all agree that Calvin Johnson is a better receiver than Wes Welker) as long as he helps get the lions out of the basement and moving towards respectibility. I wear my Lions jersey every sunday during the season and I get made fun of, as I should, and I will wear it proudly because I am a fan through the not so bad and the really bad but I sure would like to see them be successful and be proud to wear the jersey.
it gives the impression that you are putting both Qb situations in the same category, differing ends of the "bad qb spectrum" but the same category. We are going to just have to agree to disagree because we have differing comprehentions of what bad really is haha.
That's true, but that's why i acknowledged the distinction, by saying the CJ has the worst case of all considered. Also, I don't think jake is bad, but if you watch Carolina games, you'll see that the majority of the bombs Smith catches, are overthrown and into at least double coverage, where the corner has as good an opportunity to catch the ball as Smith. As a Carolina fan, I know you're point, I saw what happened to Smith's performance with he had 4 QBs throwing to him in one season (three of which were either old, bums, or unqualified). Yes, Smith having Jake, is much better than the quarterbacks CJ had to deal with. I would say though, if either of these guys played with Peyton Manning, we'd see a big increase in both their performances.
After looking at what you're saying, it seems we believe basically the same things about CJ. All my previous posts have said things along the same lines. By agreeing with him, I guess you just got grouped in with who was the actual D-bag here, hail2blue. who came in twisting my words, attacking me and insulting me, so I responded a bit in kind. So I guess you just saw my words after being twisted.
Bottom line SS for prez they only have one years stats there on the list so theyre going by last season and if u dont beleive CJ was top 5 last year your crazy. whoever saying those stats were in garbage minutes guess what 30 seconds into games are garbage minutes for lions football dont fool yourself
And as far as that moron goes comparing Delhomme to any QB on the lions roster
This was what you said. I never compared Jake to any lion QB. You just said I did. That would be the word twist. Which explains why Det Tigers Fan thought I said that. The QB argument I was referencing, claimed that if CJ had Manning or Brady, he would be the greatest, thing is though, only two WRs in this conversation (I'm not counting Welker, cause he doesn't belong) actually have Manning and Brady. That's not Smith or Johnson. (Fitzgerald does have Warner, which is close) Not to mention, like I've said multipie times, yes, the bad teammates CJ has does say something about how talented he is to still perform at this level, but it does not say that he is the best WR in the league, and it's silly to think it does.
Bottom line SS for prez they only have one years stats there on the list so theyre going by last season and if u dont beleive CJ was top 5 last year your crazy.
You would see it that way, wouldn't you. So you really think Prisco is using only one season's stats to form a ranking as to who is the best in the league? Did you expect him to list their year-by-year career stats? Use some sense. If were talking about who had the top5 seasons last year, sure, that would include CJ, but that is not what this article and threads are about, so I don't understand what point you think you have.
UhOH and you called me a DBAG whatever shall i do.
I don't know. My guess, is you continue to act like one.
