Well as the free agent filing period begins, the Cardinals have also begun cleaning house, clearing 4 from the 40 man roster, including Brad Thompson, who was released, Joe Thurston, who was outrighted to Triple-A Memphis, and Jarret Hoffpauir, who was outrighted and claimed by the Toronto Blue Jays. Also outrighted was pitcher Matt Scherer.
I've got to say I've been banking on Thompson being released, although now that possibly muddies the role of "long reliever", my personal least favorite role on a team. I was kind of surprised that Thurston was outrighted, but I'm not the best with these career minor leaguers and how their contracts work. He hasn't been claimed off waivers yet, so sadly he'll end up still in our system at this point, I just hope Tony doesn't feel too compelled to give his .225 BA another chance.
It's interesting to note that the Cardinals now only have two left handed bats on the 40 man roster, Skip Schumaker, and Colby Rasmus. Rick Ankiel is still listed on there, but he has filed for free agency, and not many people expect him back in town.
The hunt now begins for a power bat to fill in the void in left field, and I'm pretty sure Tony is going to want a serviceable left handed bat somewhere on the 2010 team. Jason Bay and Matt Holliday are probably the only candidates for left field, as Bobby Abreu has re-upped with the Angels, and there isn't much else out there that can protect Albert Pujols.
Holliday is a type A free agent, while Mark DeRosa, Troy Glaus, and Joel Pineiro are all type B free agents. I'd have to say all but Glaus will be offered arbitration, meaning we have a chance to get some decent draft picks in return, if we lose any of those FAs.
It's going to be interesting to see what we can do this winter, and with all the money coming off the books, you can bet that it will be an active off season for the Cardinals. I'm hoping we can re-sign John Smoltz, and I sense that there's a smaller market for him than you would be lead to believe. We're all hoping DeRosa will be back, but the market on him could get rough. In my opinion though, the make or break point for us is signing either Jason Bay, or Matt Holliday. I like both, and both bring similar attributes to the batter's box.
All teams have until November 20th to sign their own free agents, then they're fair game for everyone. Let the bidding begin.
In my opinion though, the make or break point for us is signing either Jason Bay, or Matt Holliday. I like both, and both bring similar attributes to the batter's box.Everybody thinks the Yankees will snatch up one of these guys, and they very well may, but I think Boston is going to be a big player as well. People seem to have written them off as spenders after the last offseason, but I can guarantee they'll be looking for some big moves to respond to the NYY championship. I think both of these guys will be priorities in Boston, especially considering one of them was already a power source on their team. Sadly, I expect the price of both players to only go up.
thats why we need a salary cap in baseball this is not fair to small market teams everybody wants to be competive but its hard when you cant afford the players you already have. I do agree matt will sign else where, and if that happens I would to love to see the Cardinals get Jason Bay as well. I was reading on espn. com that the cardinals are considering going after Adam Dunn if holiday dose not sign with them i hope not. thoughts?
Matt Holliday is going to take some coin. I am hoping that he needs his ego to be satisfied a little. If the Cardinals show they take him seriously maybe he will settle down and know what a good thing he has. Then again his ego may lean him towards the American League again so he can show everyone that it was his leg kick and not the so called "greater AL" that had his numbers down in the first half.
I was sorry to see Bobby Abreu extend with the Angels so quickly. That does seem like market value increases for the other big bats. Jason Bay being the other big name would make Mo the GM of the year right off the bat if he could be signed. He is another guy that just puts his head down and goes about his business. And business is good!!
I just don't see Joe Thurston having any better of a year than he had this year. Surely someone will want a cheap bat to fill in off the bench. Thats why I think Rick Ankiel will have no problem finding a suitor. He has an awful lot of talent for him to go unwanted. I expect he will pick up a good paycheck from another club.
Now let's see the Cards spend some money. Should be a good off season. I just hope it doesn't take till April to shuffle the deck.
I hadn't heard the Adam Dunn reports, but that's always a possible target considering the price tag on Jason Bay and Matt Holliday.
I know we have expressed some interest in Dunn in the past, but then the Nationals came in and scooped him up for I believe it was 2 years and 20 million dollars, which would make his contract for this season 12 million dollars. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that.
12 million would slot him in under anything we would pay to Bay or Holliday, but then we're stuck with another potential free agent. This is definitely starting to sound like a move we don't want to make unless all else fails. Also, this guy has been around long enough that I'm starting to get the feeling he's not going to ever hit for anything over .270. Bad, but not awful. He gets on base at near a .400 clip, but strikes out 200 times a season. Not bad, but awful.
I was on the Dunn bandwagon as recently as this last offseason, but given that he would be asked to protect Albert Pujols, and there would only be Ryan Ludwick to protect Dunn, that's playing with some serious fire. Back to back men that can easily be struck out by 28 of the 30 bullpens in the league. Not what you want to happen late in a game, or ever really.
Pass on Dunn unless we can't get someone on par with Abreu/Bay/Holliday, or at least someone who puts the ball in play more than Dunn.
Just a little food for thought but IF we were to be outbid for both Holliday and Bay, what do you guys think about JohnMo going after Jermaine Dye? The White Sox today bought out his contract (2010 team option declined), thus making him a free agent. I was thinking that we could move Ludwick to left field and play Dye in right. And Dye is a left-handed power bat, something that the Cards do need. I do like the thought of having Matt back but let's not break our piggy bank on him so that we can't take care of other needs.
If and that's a big if they can't work a deal with Bay or Holliday, Dye wouldn't be the worst choice, he would likely only be splitting time with the likes of Allen Craig or some other obvious name I can't think of, which I think was our biggest problem last year IMO. Honestly I don't see any viable excuse to not re-sign Holliday, I wouldn't go crazy like signing him for something like 7 years-$175M, but it shouldn't take that to get it done.
I brought the possibility of getting Dye (if not Holliday or Bay) in another thread, but I'm glad someone else thought of this also. But unless I am much mistaken, Dye is a right-handed bat, not left-handed. Still, I think he'd be a great fallback option.
I think Jermaine Dye would be a viable option. I don't think he had a great year in 2009. You would have to believe his numbers would go up to get him. I agree that he would split time, sitting against lefties. To tell you the truth, he is going to get swept up before the Cardinals make a decision on Mark DeRosa and Holiday anyways. There are teams looking already (not that the Cards smart FO didn't read about this or hear about it before we did).
Ahh, nothing like talking baseball in November...what some call baseball nuts..
Please check one positively no for me on Jermaine Dye..he's what 57 years old.. Holliday is going to the Yankees..call it a gut feeling Mark DeRosa needs to get a contract from the Cardinals..he can play outfield...Ryan Ludwick is staying he can play outfield..Allen Craig hit .322 with 26 hr and 83 r.b.i he also plays outfield...follow me ? Maybe that's our 2010 line up. I would like to see Matt Holliday stay with the team but he's going to want 18 mil a year, and probably looking for a 8 or 10 year contract..and with Albert Pujols contract coming up , it would seem all but impossible. Jason Bay is one to look at , but i think he will be snatched by a thick wallet team quickly To sum up my rambling thoughts , i think David Freese will be at third for our mighty Redbirds. Good bye Joe Thurston....I never want to see you again...Brad (baby face) Thompson..ditto
That is one thing that worried me, johnnytsunami. Dye will be 36 at the start of next year and we may have already seen the effects of his aging toward the end of this past season, where his numbers slumped considerably after the all-star break. I wouldn't mind seeing what he could do with a fresh start in the Lou, but will he be ok with a one year deal, maybe a one year with an option for a second?
I, too, feel that the main priority should be signing DeRosa. He's a great clubhouse presence and just brings everyone together. I've heard a lot of talk amongst my Cub-fan friends and they all seem to think that the new ownership will want to try really hard to bring him back. A smart move as it would help their team and sell tickets, not that they have much of a problem with that anyway.
As for David Freese, I wouldn't mind seeing him get a shot. But why not make a run at Chone Figgins, if in fact we don't sign Holliday. He could be our big "get" this offseason and would bring a true leadoff hitter to St. Louis. However, if we resign DeRosa we probably won't try for Figgins since he and Freese would share time at 3B.
If you make the assumption that Holliday and DeRosa would both give the Cardinals the same discount to league wide value, or not give one equally, then I would think that Holliday is a lot less risky. He's 5 years younger and in his prime.
DeRosa is hurt and he's 35, which is the point where you often see a big drop off in performance at the mlb level.
Let's say we give Holliday a big fat contract and then Carp gets hurt or we're forced into a rebuilding period for whatever reason. Assuming Holliday is still performing in the sweet spot of his career, he can be traded for prospects and we're out of his contract. Not much downside for a shot at winning it all in 2010.
Regarding Thompson, I think he has outlived his usefulness. We have an excess of starters now. If Smoltz is resigned, he might agree to some sort of swing role: spot starter and important relief guy?
Third base is the area that I think gives us the most flexibility at this point. There's a number of players out there who are free agent third sackers, so there's bound to be someone to fit our needs. The guy that I would love to see us sign is Chone Figgins. Everyone knows that guy is a speedster. I'm not so sure about his glove work at third, but obviously he's gotta be able to do it if he's been playing there for the better part of three seasons now.
I would love to see someone on the Cardinals actually steal 30 bases, and that man could do it for us in a heartbeat. Then you're talking about batting Skip Schumaker in the 2 hole, which I think would see his productivity go through the roof batting in front of Albert.
I'm still kind of leery about signing Mark DeRosa to play an outfield spot however, because the way it's looking right now, whoever signs to play a corner outfield spot for us is very likely going to be in the mix for being our cleanup hitter, and I like DeRosa and all, but I don't think he's THAT good. The only cleanup type hitters I can think of for third base off the top of my head would be Adrian Beltre or Troy Glaus.. pick your poison out of that group.
ST. LOUIS — Outfielders Matt Hollidayand Rick Ankieland five other St. Louis Cardinals were among the 79 players who filed for baseball’s free agency on Thursday, the first day of the 15-day window for players to declare their intentions to enter this winter’s free agent market.
The union released the list of the 79 players who filed early this evening.
The seven Cardinals to file for free agency were: Holliday, Ankiel, 3B Mark DeRosa, 3B Troy Glaus, SS Khalil Greene, C Jason LaRueand RHP John Smoltz. While this mostly a matter of procedure and paper work, the act of filing for free agency does allow players to talk with all teams about possible offers. Only the team the player is leaving, however, can talk financial terms for the next 15 days. The Cardinals can, for example, negotiate with any of the above free agents, while the other 29 teams can only discuss peripheral things such as the length of the contract, the position the player might plate and good areas to live.
It is expected that in the final player rankings Holliday will be a Type A free agent, the only one the Cardinals will have. Pineiro, Glaus and DeRosa are all Type B free agents. The “type” of the free agent designates how much compensation the Cardinals get if that player signs with another team. To secure the compensation, the Cardinals must offer each player arbitration. It’s obvious they will do so for Holliday, so that they either get him for a certain 2010 contract or get a first-round and supplemental first-round pick in exchange for him. Type B free agents reward the original team with a supplemental first-round pick, though it would be a gamble to offer arbitration to Glaus and Pineiro. DeRosa poses and intriguing arbitration option.
Lost in my last bit of ramblings ..Colby (the big cheese) Rasmus and Ryan Ludwick are the every day guys, get Craig out there and DeRosa could spell Craig and Freese...get all these guys to hit 20 + HR's ...It would be nice
I'd love to have Adam Dunn, his defense will be a liability but he will hit, no doubt about it. To many people are making too much about his low batting average and stikeouts. He consistently hits around 40 HRs and he's always near the top in on base numbers. He takes walks more then just about anyone and he hits it out of the park more then just about anyone, and those are two attributes we need on this team.
I'm in the same boat, Karma. Dunn is a horrible defender and he's guaranteed to strike out 160+ times a season, but he's also just about guaranteed to walk 100+ times to go along with his annual 40 homeruns.
Some people will obviously look only at his strikeouts, but I kind of like the idea of taking a guy with a .383 career OBP and that much power and putting him IN FRONT of Albert. I would imagine he'd get fewer walks there, but that's only because pitcher's would have to make better pitches to him with Pujols on deck. I can't imagine it would be fun to face Dunn's power when you have significantly less room for error.
I proposed this idea a few weeks ago, and Dunn was actually one of the guys from outside the organization I thought would be a good fit there.
I like the Dunn idea, before we got Holliday I thought trying to trade for Dunn would have been great. I would rather have Holliday, but it might not be possible with the Yankees, Boston and the Mets all in the bidding. I know Dunn will strikeout 25 percent of the time, but his on base percentage is always good. Batting average can be overrated, if a guy hits .260 and walks 110 times with 40 hrs and 100 rbi there will always be room for him in my lineup. I like the fact that he is a lefthanded hitter has well. You could put Rasmus hitting 2nd, Albert 3rd, Dunn 4th and Ludwick 5th and you would have Lefty, righty, lefty, righty. Obviously the big problem with Dunn is his Defensive range, I think he has a good arm, but I know he would be a liability in Left.
As for the original subject on this thread, Brad Thompson had some moments and he wasn't bad if long relieve, but Joe Thurston needs to improve. Good luck to both, but I'm okay with them moving on.
you ready for ADAM DUNNS defense? you can't argue with his power numbers, but the defense could be a killer. I agree with the batting average thing, you need production. He has a good OBP. I always worry about those high strike out guys. They could be a .220 hitter waiting to happen. Dunn could see alot of men on base hitting 4th in that line up. I think I still rather have FIGGINS and or De ROSA.
I can'r pictue Dunn as Cardinal. No doubt the guy can rake, but you will give up too many runs that are hit to left field. The Cards are always big on defense, so I think that his fielding and strikeouts will keep him out of St. Louis.
