Last night evinced why being preseason #1 a)means little to nothing and b)curses certain teams like KU since they have always underachieved back to the Roy years when placed in this position. I doubt I am the only one disappointed with the way this team performed last night, particularly on the offensive end. I hope last night's offensive game plan is not indicative of what we will see from this team farther along the road. It seemed like the offensive philosophy on every position was to throw it down to Aldrich and Morris or just turn the ball over. Quite frankly, I saw little else from KU on the offensive end. They attempted only a handful of 3's(1-5 shooting), which is the exact opposite of what we saw from this team in the opener as well as late last season when they turned their season around.
How come Xavier and Sherron were not looking for their shot very often? Sherron is typically more aggressive in taking jumpers and driving to the basket. Last night, he was timid in terms of looking for his shot and seemed more concerned with where to get the ball to Aldrich. As for Xavier, he also looked diffident in terms of establishing himself offensively in the game as he was passing up good looks while engaging in poor shot selection when he did take shots. If KU is going to be a final 4/national champion contender, they will need both Sherron and Xavier to be more assertive on the offensive end because teams will just clamp down on Aldrich inside and constrict passing lanes like Memphis did last night.
The player that disappointed me the most last night was Tyshawn Taylor. There was little effort shown from him on either side of the court and his mind was clearly not in the game. His travelling turnover with about 3 minutes left in the game reeked of pure stupidity as it allowed Memphis to get the ball back quickly after the Witherspoon dunk. He also mishandled a good pass from Aldrich earlier in the half that should have resulted in an easy basket. I know Tyshawn was involved in a fight with the football team earlier in the year, but he needs to move past that if this team is to reach its full potential. Only when Taylor started playing to his potential in the 2nd half of last season did the team truly began to assert itself in the Big 12. He can be to this team what Mario Chalmers was to KU's title team two seasons ago. Hopefully Coach Self can bench him in order to actuate him to play like the star player he is capable of being.
No disrespect to Memphis, but KU should not have been lodged into a dogfight with a team that lost their coach and all of their key starters from last season. Memphis played harder and smarter than KU yesterday and certainly put themselves in a good position to win. KU needs to realize that they still have tough road games at Temple, Tennessee, and UCLA and tough home games against Michigan and Cal on their non conference schedule. They better start playing high quality basketball if they want to retain their high ranking heading into the conference schedule. If they played like they did last night, I guarantee they will lose at least three of those games.
If anyone noticed, UT scored 124 points last night. Even if they were playing a flabby team like UNC Asheville, this game surely demonstrates Tennessee's profound ability to score. KU better diversify and fine tune their offense quickly because they will not score enough to win games against teams like Tennessee who will score on anyone. 54 points will not cut it against any team that I mentioned nor will KU even win the Big 12 if their offensive philosophy does not change.
Cole Aldrich is an amazing player-possibly the best big man in the country-yet, this team is too talented to just limit its game plan on offense to throw the ball inside to him and hope he scores every time. KU needs to go back to establishing itself on the perimeter in order to give Cole more facile scoring opportunities which will make them extremely dangerous in March(and early April).
Coach Self can talk all he wants about yesterday being a "learning experience", but I am afraid this team will need to lose a game or two before the switch goes off in their minds and they realize that they are not a bulletproof team. Teams will not merely back down to KU just because of what some stupid pre-season poll says about them. This team needs to turn up their intensity and focus a significant amount of notches if they want to remain a legitimate title contender. Last night's performance was unacceptable as it resembled shades of their disappointing performances against Baylor and Massachusetts last season. The only reason why this performance was not more embarassing was due to the fact they won. It may have been a Pyrrhic victory if Sherron's knee does not heal fast.
With all that said, I am looking forward to seeing this team work off any rust against Scottie Pippen's alma mater tomorrow. I expect to see more outside shot attempts and development of something resembling a competent offense.
I guess you didnt see Collins playing hurt, or Reed throwing up bricks. Do you accually think the fight months ago is affecting Taylors game? Give Memphis credit for playing tough hard defense and keeping our fast break in check. Also, who cares what Tenn did? This team will come around. Give the new guys a chance to gel and get a feel for a physical game.
My thoughts exactly. Just like we should over-react to the Hofstra performance, this one performance against Memphis is hardly going to be indicative of anything for our team. Collins was injured for most of the second half, Xavier looked off (just one of those nights), Taylor had a bad night (but once again, young player in the second game of the year). The fact is, we still have plenty of weapons, even if we have off nights from some of our better players. Also, even if we lose a couple games, who cares? We get Morningstar and that transfer from Arizona (always forget his name) in the second semester, so we will be geared up for conference play and the tourney when it really matters
Jayhawkpack - if you don't mind, I'd like to provide some differing views on your comments, with all due respect to a fellow KU fan
Last night evinced why being preseason #1 a)means little to nothing Coach Self will be the first tell the players and us fans that the ranking means nothing to him and to the team - it is merely an opinion by folks who claim to report on the sport. The rankings mean far more to us fans than to the coaches and their players. We should try to ignore the rankings and euphoria that comes with a high ranking and, like the coaches and players, consider every game a possible upset to an inferior team. This instills motivation that would not be there if we and the players assumed the ranking is earned and accurate.
and b)curses certain teams like KU since they have always underachieved back to the Roy years when placed in this position. Amen, brother! UTEP, Rhode Island, Arizona, Syracuse, and on and on. KU has endured more big game upsets than any other team in recent history. We must wear this albatross as a symbol of allegiance to our former players and a hope that we show up and compete in every single game - from Athletes in Action to UNC and UK. It seemed like the offensive philosophy on every position was to throw it down to Aldrich and Morris or just turn the ball over. Uh, not sure if we were watching the same game or not but throwing it to Aldrich was the one thing that WAS working. In fact, Memphis had no answer for Cole. They tried fronting him, double teaming him and fouling him. He was amazing and increased his NBA stock on national TV in a big way.
Quite frankly, I saw little else from KU on the offensive end. They attempted only a handful of 3's(1-5 shooting), which is the exact opposite of what we saw from this team in the opener as well as late last season when they turned their season around. Yes, the offense was stagnant - its as if Memphis brought a defensive intensity that Coach Self hasn't been able to replicate in practices 'cause we looked like we had never seen it before. This must be of concern to the coaching staff and owes, at least in part, to the fact that without Morningstar, Little, Releford, and a healthy CJ, we are not as deep as we once were and we need CJ and Morningstar back to replicate game situations.
Regarding the 3s. I was hoping KU would be able to cash in a little more often from downtown than just 5 attempts. But you could see that Memphis had a quick and suffocating perimeter defense and throwing it down to Cole or the twins for a higher percentage shot was a much better gamble than shooting mostly contested 3s against Memphis' quick 3-guard line up.
How come Xavier and Sherron were not looking for their shot very often? Sherron is typically more aggressive in taking jumpers and driving to the basket. Last night, he was timid in terms of looking for his shot and seemed more concerned with where to get the ball to Aldrich Two thoughts - the game plan was - and rightfully so - to get it to the big men and take advantage of Memphis' smaller and not-as-deep front line. And, in the second half, I'm sure you noticed Sherron had his hand taped and came out twice with a nagging pain (cramp?) These battle injuries undoubtedly limited his offensive rhythm.
As for Xavier, he also looked diffident in terms of establishing himself offensively in the game as he was passing up good looks while engaging in poor shot selection when he did take shots. If KU is going to be a final 4/national champion contender, they will need both Sherron and Xavier to be more assertive on the offensive end because teams will just clamp down on Aldrich inside and constrict passing lanes like Memphis did last night. Yup. Xavier has the skills and size (see the guns on that kid?) to own games. This was his first big time, nationally televised game against players that, at one time, he committed to play with - not against. I can't speak to Xavier's mindset regarding playing against his former to-be teammates but you have to wonder if the national spotlight and this factor were in his head.
The player that disappointed me the most last night was Tyshawn Taylor. There was little effort shown from him on either side of the court and his mind was clearly not in the game. His travelling turnover with about 3 minutes left in the game reeked of pure stupidity as it allowed Memphis to get the ball back quickly after the Witherspoon dunk. He also mishandled a good pass from Aldrich earlier in the half that should have resulted in an easy basket. I know Tyshawn was involved in a fight with the football team earlier in the year, but he needs to move past that if this team is to reach its full potential. Only when Taylor started playing to his potential in the 2nd half of last season did the team truly began to assert itself in the Big 12. He can be to this team what Mario Chalmers was to KU's title team two seasons ago. Hopefully Coach Self can bench him in order to actuate him to play like the star player he is capable of being. Between you and me and whoever else is reading this, I doubt if the fighting or facebook posts are playing that big of a part in his performance. I'm more inclined to rack this up to first big game jitters. And, he did have 5 assists if the box score I'm looking at is correct. Tyshawn is a player and competitor and I have no doubt that we will be awed by his abiliites in games this season. Was his performance disappointing against Memphis? Yes. Should we be concerned about this long term? Absolutely not.
No disrespect to Memphis, but KU should not have been lodged into a dogfight with a team that lost their coach and all of their key starters from last season. Memphis played harder and smarter than KU yesterday and certainly put themselves in a good position to win. KU needs to realize that they still have tough road games at Temple, Tennessee, and UCLA and tough home games against Michigan and Cal on their non conference schedule. They better start playing high quality basketball if they want to retain their high ranking heading into the conference schedule. If they played like they did last night, I guarantee they will lose at least three of those games. I'm not about to make predictions for specific losses but KU is likely to lose a game before the season ends. Perhaps several losses. In this age of D1 parity, that's expected. If you read my other posts on different threads, despite media claims to the contrary, Memphis is a legitimate contender for the Conf USA crown and a likely March dancer. Memphis' coach Pastner has heard all the naysayers about his program and has used this to motivate his team. And based on their performance v KU, I'd say he's doing a pretty good job of it. Its ridiculous that some have Memphis finishing fourth in the Conf USA. If they can maintain the intensity they had v KU, they'll be dancing in March.
If anyone noticed, UT scored 124 points last night. Even if they were playing a flabby team like UNC Asheville, this game surely demonstrates Tennessee's profound ability to score. KU better diversify and fine tune their offense quickly because they will not score enough to win games against teams like Tennessee who will score on anyone. 54 points will not cut it against any team that I mentioned nor will KU even win the Big 12 if their offensive philosophy does not change. Disagree. This margin of victory is not just a showing of UT's ability to score at will. Rather it is a showing of UT's ability to score against a high school defense. They were expected to win big and they did. Maybe a little bigger margin than most expected but like KU v FHSU or PSU, don't assume they're a NBA caliber team 'cause they score at will against a vastly inferior defense, like UT did. No disrepect for UT - they have a very good team this year. But let's not make final judgment until we see them against several comparably talented teams.
Cole Aldrich is an amazing player-possibly the best big man in the country-yet, this team is too talented to just limit its game plan on offense to throw the ball inside to him and hope he scores every time. KU needs to go back to establishing itself on the perimeter in order to give Cole more facile scoring opportunities which will make them extremely dangerous in March(and early April). I too hope we can establish our perimeter game but against Memphis, the feed-cole offense was working. Memphis had no answer for it. Dunks and lay-ins are 80% shots while a good 3pt % is 40%. Why trade 80% shots for 40% shots, even given the xtra point, when the 80% shots are working and drawing fouls? I credit Coach Self for sticking with his game plan and not losing his nerve and start chucking guarded 3pters. KU will have plenty of opportunities this season to take advantage of our perimeter offense and shoot the long ball. Coach Self knew what he was doing by keeping Cole in the offense, while Collins was injured, and it worked. Barely!
Coach Self can talk all he wants about yesterday being a "learning experience", but I am afraid this team will need to lose a game or two before the switch goes off in their minds and they realize that they are not a bulletproof team. Teams will not merely back down to KU just because of what some stupid pre-season poll says about them. This team needs to turn up their intensity and focus a significant amount of notches if they want to remain a legitimate title contender. Last night's performance was unacceptable as it resembled shades of their disappointing performances against Baylor and Massachusetts last season. The only reason why this performance was not more embarassing was due to the fact they won. It may have been a Pyrrhic victory if Sherron's knee does not heal fast. Yep, they need to and will play with more intensity - Coach Self will make sure of it. Since you're comparing to last season I guess its important to note that v Memphis, KU played one of its worst games in the past season or two, against a very good opponent, and still won. Last year, we take the L and prepare for the next game. With all that said, I am looking forward to seeing this team work off any rust against Scottie Pippen's alma mater tomorrow. I expect to see more outside shot attempts and development of something resembling a competent offense. Yep, and hopefully we see CJ make his debut and a healthy Collins!
I agree with a little from each of you...I would say the offense was way out of rhythm...Memphis was good on D, but that shouldn't have held us back like it did...one of you said it was good Self stuck with the game plan of getting it inside..why? so we could score 57 points while shooting 45 %...that should never happen with a decent offensive philosophy...especially when you are by far the superior team... We could have jacked up the first decent shot we saw all night and surpassed 57 points...The game plan was horrendous and only Cole and Sharron played very well
I really thot after the Hofstra game that things would be different this year and not such an early season struggle, i applauded Self for getting the guys playing together and looking for the right shots in only the first game and not forcing it inside like we did last year when teams try to take that away...and Hofstra wasn't a bad team, they gave UCONN all it could handle...but then the team has a whole different philosophy for the Memphis game, it doesn't make any sense..sure Memphis is quicker on D...but that shouldn't change what we do that drastically...they also wanted to take away the inside, we made them look better because we only tried one facet of our offense most of the time..
Obviously, what made this game close was turnovers..we had 21 to their 12....lets say we only had 12 as well....that gets us 9 more possessions/shots...at the rate we were shooting this game, about 1.3 pts per shot, that would have given us about 12 more points and also taken away a few of their easier baskets off turnovers, we'll say maybe 4 pts..,that puts the game in the 18-20 range, about where we all expected it would be...so now the question, how do we cut down on turnovers...well i'm glad you asked...Taylor, Elijah and the Morrises accounted for 15 of the 21 turnovers...guys who shouldn't be handling the ball as much as they do, but cmon guys VALUE THE FRIKKIN BALL...Cole, Sherron, or X should have the ball atleast 75% of the time or more in a game like this...the rest of those guys should really only have it on a pass for a direct shot or post move, fast break, or rebound, or when 1 or more of the big 3 are out...only once in a while handle the ball w/in the offense...but it seems they way we run our offense everyone shares the ball evenly about 20% each and that led to too many turnovers last year and apparently will again this year...
Collins got hurt with about 8 minutes left in the 2nd half. Where was his assertiveness the first 32 minutes of the game? Please do not insult my intelligence because I promise you are the one who will look dumber at the end. I guess you did not see Collins play healthy the entire first half. Plus, Collins is a former high school running back. I think he knows how to play effectively with pain. The bottom line is that he was not looking for his shot even before sustaining that injury in the 2nd half.
As for the fight, if you were listening to the commentary, Shulman and Vitale both agreed that the fight may still be affecting him as evident by his lack of focus on Tuesday. I did not pull that comment out of thin air as the commentators even picked up on it.
I think you might want to start caring about what Tennessee did because they are one of the best teams in the country and we play them pretty soon.
Taylor, Elijah and the Morrises accounted for 15 of the 21 turnovers...guys who shouldn't be handling the ball as much as they do, but cmon guys VALUE THE FRIKKIN BALL...Cole, Sherron, or X should have the ball atleast 75% of the time or more in a game like this.Again, why do people continue to lump the twins into one person? Marcus Morris had 2 turns which was as many as Sherron and less than Xavier, Tyshawn, his brother and Elijah and he played 31 minutes. Both Henry and Tyshawn need to value the ball better. Obviously Elijah's 3 in 7 minutes is proposterous but we all knew he would be a work in progress early on. As far as different people getting touches this is Bill Self's offense not the mythical dribble drive motion of Calipari.
Relax, everything will be fine. Give them a chance to get acclimated.
It is highly unlikely that the fight is causing Taylor to lose focus. I think that Taylor doesn't have a lot of confidence in his offensive game right now and is trying really hard to dish to Xavier Henry, Collins and Aldrich. When he has the ball, he does not look like he has any thoughts about scoring. He just looks uncertain about what he is supposed to be doing. The arrival of Xavier on the team had the most impact on TAylor and his role in the offense. I think that it will improve as the season rolls along or other players will start to see more time in his role. CJ Henry looks offensively capable (but defensively challenged). We'll see.
Collins averaged 19 pts last year and had 12 points against memphis with taped up fingers on his shooting hand . Maybe you expect him to score 30 a game. He's the team leader not a ball hog and Memphis was all over him. Those final 8 minutes might have been when he would have tried to take the game over.
As for the fight, do you allways repeat what the commentaters say? How is the fight that happened nearly 2 months ago affecting Taylors game? Is he injured? Does he wake up in a cold sweat haunted by that fateful day? I say he is a streaky player now just like he was last year trying to find his rhythm.
And once again, no, I dont care that Tenn scored 124 the other night. Self's teams play D, and KU beat them last year. Im not saying the Tenn game will be a cake walk, Im saying that the 124 they put up on a cupcake doesnt mean anything. You can go hide if it scares you that much.
I dont have to insult your intelligence, your doing a fine job showing your stupidity yourself. The sky isnt falling after 1 close game. It just gives Bill an opportunity to school his freshmen and get the team working as a team.
I dont have to insult your intelligence, your doing a fine job showing your stupidity yourself. Hey fellas - let's keep this civil. Its fine to disagree. We all have differing opinions about Taylor and the close win v Memphis but we share a common link - we love our Jayhawks. No one's intelligence is insulted.
Roy Williams NEVER had a pre-season #1 team in his time at KU. Don't worry so much. KU has the talent and the coaching to have a great season. Twocoach - I'm pretty sure I remember a cover of SI with Jacque Vaughn and Jerod Hasse on the front as the pre-season #1 team. (remember the jinx of being on the cover of SI with the #1 pre-season ranking?)
If I'm wrong I'll stand corrected but I think I have that copy of SI around here somewhere.
Jayhawkpack started this thread with 8 paragraphs of doomsday material. Everyone since has dissagreed with his assessment and he called me out? Just being a Hawk fan doesnt make him my pal. Every KU team Bill Self has coached has started off slow, this team is no different with so many new faces on it. I for one am not ready to push the panic button. I dont take every Vitale opinion for gospel and I do remember the championship tourney where the Hawks were pushed to the limit by pesky Davidson team and bounced back nicely. He also acts like Coach Self doesnt know what he is doing. He doesnt realize that we have a top 5 coach leading our great squad.
Im sorry for my sarcasm and lack of tact with jayhawkpact, but Im not gonna sit here and coddle a scared crybaby who is disrespecting our squad because they ran into a motivated, well coached team in Memphis and didnt play their A game.
Jayhawkpack, take a look at your own words ("Memphis played harder and smarter than KU yesterday"..) If thats the case, and it may be then we can see that the experience and talent of KU was enough for the win. By 50 or 2 a win is a win. I almost feel sorry for those who face the A-game of KU.
Again, why do people continue to lump the twins into one person? Marcus Morris had 2 turns which was as many as Sherron and less than Xavier, Tyshawn, his brother and Elijah and he played 31 minutes. Both Henry and Tyshawn need to value the ball better. Obviously Elijah's 3 in 7 minutes is proposterous but we all knew he would be a work in progress early on. As far as different people getting touches this is Bill Self's offense not the mythical dribble drive motion of Calipari.
you're right Mc Morris wasn't bad...but i lumped him in there cuz he shouldn't be handling the ball as much as others...however, i agree, that maybe changing....and i have no problem with X's 4 to's...none of them really stuck out to me and he NEEDS to have the ball alot.....
As for Self's offense, you're right it's not dribble drive, but it could be more effective...there's no excuse for that 57 pt ouput with this particular team like there was last year...there are many many coaches that this would never have happened to cuz they actually utilize the skills of ALL their best players....now the end of the season is what really matters of course, but if you happen to think the offense was ok except for the turnovers, i have to disagree...KU shot 46.5% which is pretty good unless you look at the fact they only shot 5 3's. meaning they were shooting only 47 or 48% on two's even though they were almost exclusivley looking and shooting inside with few jumpers....that means the inside game, while great when we could get a dunk, wasn't working as well as some of you seem to think
For example, if we go down 3 strait times and pound it inside...it's likely we miss or turn it over once, make one shot, get fouled the third time and make one of two, that equals 3 points -although we shouldn't do it either way unless one option is open 3 times in a row, we could also run a play for a 3pter 3 times in a row likely coming away with 1 make out of 3, which equals 3 pts...this team is going to shoot better that 33% on 3's though. Obviously alot of times we could come away with 4 or 5 using the first method, but with the 3 pt method, when you make 2 out of 3, you get 6 pts.....but what i really want is to mix it up...our strategy allowed Memphis to be in a comfort zone on D, because Collins and Henry did not threaten them....they just had to worry about the inside game and while some of you apparentley think we dominated them inside, i'm pretty sure they were pleased that we limited our offense to one phase and were extatic to hold us to 57....they got their share of turnovers when we tried to pass it around and get it inside....just put yourself in their shoes, if you had to worry about Collins and Henry off the dribble and shooting 3's AND Aldrich/Morris inside, you would go crazy trying to take everything away...we made it EASY for them..
Also, does anyone know who was ranked #1 to start the 96-97 season?
Also, does anyone know who was ranked #1 to start the 96-97 season? Hey Rage - haven't heard from you in awhile. And new screen name?
Yes, I know which team that was. The Big XII team that started 22-0 and lost in 2x OT to Misery in Columbia, MO and finished 15-1 in conference. The overall #1 seed in the NCAA tourney that lost to Arizona in an upset in March. Arizona's Miles Simon, Mike Bibby, Michael Dickerson, and Sean Terry were all standouts on that U of A team. KU wasn't #1 in the pre-season AP poll, Cincinnatti was but I thought KU was preseaon in SI or USA today / Coaches.
For KU, LaFrentz, Pollard, Vaughn, and Pierce would all go on to play in the NBA. Billy Thomas was also on the team - still looking for an NBA spot?
For me, the loss to U of A was the most painful loss I've ever experienced.
