Fans who blindly defend Mayweather Jr. need to ...

What a ridiculous comment. Fighters do whatever they can get away with. Ali used to lay his weight on an opponent to tire them out. In the Foreman fight, his people lossened the ropes so that he could lean back on them. Leonard was famous for setting his opponent up for punches they weren't expecting. His fake bolo made Duran quit. If a fighter could get away with holding the head and hitting they would and I guarantee at least 90% of them have done so on occasion. Name me a fighter who has never done anything dirty in the ring and I'll put them up for sainthood.
WE get it, you hate Mayweather. Congrats for being one of the hundreds of thousands who fell for his game. But don't try to glorify every other boxer to make maywether look bad. The fact that people like you pull this nonsense is proof in itself that Mayweather is no worse in the ring than any other fighter. He certainly doesn't resort to head butts and low blows like many of his opponents have done to him. When his worse infraction in the ring is to hit a guy after the ref says let's go and brings the fighters together, maybe I ought to nominate him for boxing sainthood.

@ mefive, I think you post was good. I do however want to comment on a couple of remarks. 1st, Ali's team didn't loosen the ropes in the Foreman fight. No one knew Ali was going to use the now famous "rope a dope" until he used it. Dundee was going crazy during the fight. Screaming, "get off the ropes!"2nd, Floyd is not a dirty fighter, but he does use aggresive moves (just like other pro's) when fighting, and a opponent can say he that about him. 

I use to be a floyd fan, and use to put his personality aside. Most of it, I thought was gamesmanship. Him trying to sell the ticket to his fights. I have now changed the way I see it. He has great talent, but as much as he has that huge amout of talent, he as the same amount of lack of class! Proven by anything you see from him when not in the ring! Just watch the 24/7 shows he has made for any fight. Again, you say, he does that for ticket sales. I say no! Because after the fight is over he is just as bad if not most times worse!  

My last point is Floyd showed his lack of class after the fight (he is consistent). When he bragged about the manner of the KO. He was happy Ortiz had his hands down. Yeah...he was head butted, and should have been upset. I say, The great fighters would not have done that, but in the small amount of times the great ones would have done that, THEY WOULD NOT BE PROUD OF IT. Huge difference in CLASS. Just watch the way this guy shows anybody that is watching or will listen, How he is so much better than EVERYONE! I now can't wait until he is shown he is not better than everyone. The Pac man can do that! I know that is why Floyd is running! Keep running Floyd...Hope the Pac man doesn't eat one of those energy pills and turns you blue for points!

Ok let';s say that Ali's people didn't loosen the ropes in the Foreman fight, there's no argument that they cut his gloves after Henry Cooper seperated him from his senses. Now they brag about it. I'm a huge Ali fan but let's face it, he did what he had to do to win and had no regrets.
Floyd uses aggressive moves? Isn't that something he's supposed to do? I'm sorry that you let your disillusionment in Floyd as a person cloud your appreciation of his talent. I never liked Mike Tyson when he was destroying the heavyweight division but that did not blind me to the fact that he was a terror in the ring. Again. where was Ali's class outside the ring. For him it was an act to call people Uncle Tom and gorilla. i thought he was funny but that didn't make it classy.
As far as Floyd goes I like what he does in the ring. I think any fighter likes it when the other fighter has his hands down. If you want to glorify the greats into sainthood go ahead but from what I've seen (Duran winning on a low blow over Ken Buchanan, Dempsey ko'ing Sharkey on a break) these guys did not regret it nor apologise for it. Present day great B-Hop says he'd have done the same thing. But hey you all are the experts on the temprament of the greats without offering any evidence to support your assumptions.
Pacman arms are too short for him to be effective against Floyd. It would be a bloodbath so keep supporting Pac  and his avoidance of needles. That way you can keep deluding yourself that he has a chance against Floyd.

Well mefive, I'd like to say you make good arguments on your points except, I said that floyd is very talented in the ring, but I'll  get back to that. Ali is my favorite also, which means I'm aware of a lot of his antics. I will say, It's my impression the majority of his stuff was to sell tickets, and not a direct reflection of his personality. Not excusing his tatics, but before him it wasn't done that way at all. Well...no where as good as him at the minimum. Again I also said ALL pro's use aggressive moves. I thought I was clear on that but sorry if I wasn't. Over all, what I didn't say was this whole deal with me is my opinion. As I get older some things mean more to me, and things that use to be important are not so much. For sure I don't like Floyd for his person, again I didn't say he hasn't any talent. I can't allow myself to root for or support someone that I know is my idea of a bad person. That is one of the things that is different about me as adverse to years ago.  

You make it sound like I'm way off on my OPINON on what the greats would do in the same positon. I'll say I very well could be, but couldn't the same apply to your Opinon? I will say that most of the greats got there not only on talent, but charater also played a big part in getting them there and representing them once they were there. I'm sure your not going to go down that path on how charater does not play a part in being a champion, or better yet being a GOOD champion. After watching Floyd and how he treats people (from what I've seen). He really needs to improve on just that. It's also my opion that ONLY life events make people change imbedded aspects of themselves. I think losing to pac man will do just that to floyd. If not, so what! He still will have lost! You say Pac man can't do this or that, his arms this or that. The same thing a lot of people have been saying for a very long time now. They all have been wrong! As far as I'm concerned, He is the best chance to see floyd lose soon for me. I'd love to see it, and I think it's Mr. big shot floyd that is doing the ducking.   


BTW that statment about Ali doing what he had to do seems to say to me that he was desperate through out his career. It kinda doesn't match all the great things he was able to accomplish. To me he was so much more than just doing what he had to do to win with no regrets. If so, why was style so important to him? Again my Opion.

I'm simply saying that there is opinion based on idealism and what we'd like to think and then there's opinion based on facts and examples. I've provided instances where champions haven't been above board in their tactics to show that they are not as classy as you like to paint them. Even Pacman was on HBO trying to defend himself for hitting Marquez after Marquez was already down. Pacman said that his glove wasn't touching the canvas while the video clearly showed Marquez' glove touching the canvas. The classy thing to do would have been for Pac to say that he got carried away and made a mistake, but juse like many greats before him, he made excuses for his infraction.
I wasn't saying that Ali was desperate throughout his career, I was saying that when he was desperate, he did what he had to do to win, no regrets. Those are the times when you find character flaws in even the classiest boxers, what do they do in adversity. Most of the time it's whatever they have to.
I did not infer that you did not think Floyd was talented. I merely pointed out that you give Pacman the benefit of the doubt by what I can only assume to be your impression of his character because you give no evidence of any advantage that Pac has over Floyd. i pointed out Floyd's biggest advantage being his 5inch reach and you pass it off as if Floyd is no better than any other fighter Pac has faced. Pac has never faced anyone with Floyd's speed and savvy who also has a five inch reach advantage. People have been saying for years that Floyd is ducking this person and that person and yet he's 42 & 0. If he was just another opponent there would not be so much interest in the fight. If the fight is made, Floyd would be the betting favorite. Pac had trouble twice with JMM who is a great counterpuncher just like Floyd but let's ignore all that and just say Pac will beat Floyd.
Mr. bigshot Floyd sent Pac a signed contract agreeing to all his demands and Pac rejected it because Floyd asked for olympic style testing. You've let Bob Arum's PR smokescreen and your dislike of Floyd to blind you to the facts.

I guess I should start this off by saying I'm not interested in trying to change your views. IMO I've said that champions try to present themselves with much more class than our boy of less repute. You listing instances of greats when they've made mistakes or have said questionable things. Does not take away the standard that I refer to. Nor is that a fantasy dreamed up that no one aspires to. So, you can make your factual statements to help you justify Floyds bad behavior. That I have noticed you don't have much to say about. Mean while the greats, along with soon to be greats have been and will keep living their lives and treating other people better long after Mr" I'm better than you" is out of the lime light.

I will say Pac man (as before) is the best chance at beating Floyd soon. I also think that your factual reach advantage is not as important as it would be in other fights because Floyd IS a counter puncher. Pac man has faced someone close to Floyd's talent in Sugar Shane. Although, not as good, but Floyd has shown problems with speed. Refer to Zab Judah. I know he won but I saw what speed did to him, and I believe if Zab had some discipline the results could have been different. I know about the testing ploy that Floyd played, and if I were Manny I would have done the same! IMO that was just another way to show Manny who's in charge. Oh yeah...refer to Ortiz coming out first (the champ) before the contender. Title match or not, the tradition is the opposite. What we saw was Manny not bowing down to Floyd "I'm better than you", and allowing him to dictate what will happen when. BTW, if that was so important why wouldn't it have been part of the agreement in the begining?

Lastly I'll say Floyd is a great fighter. Manny has fought a lot of great fighters. He also has beaten champions for their titles in their prime. Maybe none like Floyd...maybe, but then again it's not like he hasn't won in that forum. Don't brush off his success merely because Floyd hasn't met the right fighter at the right time. Odds against Manny? Yeah, but is Manny the best chance now? absolutely!

I am not trying to justify Floyd's behaviour because when it comes down to it, I know him as a great boxer and that's it. What he does outside the ring is his business. If I was fixated on the character of boxers, I would point out the faults of specific champions (some of which you actually named) and show that they are no different than Floyd outside the ring. Many wives and girlfriends of champions have had their bruises and abuses publicly shown in the media, many champions have had gambling problems, many champions cheat on their spouses, many champions were (and some still are) drug addicts and alcoholics (Floyd doesn't do drugs or alcohol) but they don't get the flak Floyd gets for various reasons. Some of them were active before the rise of internet and cell phone cameras so their actions were not immediately sent around the world. Their public images were created by PR machines. If they faced the kind of scrutiny Floyd faces they would look just as bad.
Granted, Floyd brings a lot of the heat on himself with his antics. But let's face it, everything bad thing Floyd does is blown up and circulated while the good things he does are hidden in some obscure newsletter, if they are written about at all. But hey, if you're comfortable with the media shaping your opinion then more power to you.

mefive, let me help you out.

bigdog1455, 42-0.  talk about that.  It's like scoreboard while someone's talking shigity to you on the court.

bigdog1455, how do you become king of the hill?  (Talk your opponent down or push/pull your opponent down)

Floyd's king of the hill, and like you said in one of your earlier post.  If in your heart you want Floyd beat, most people think Manny is the last chance.  So my question to you is:

Why not take that test?  (Arum thinks Mayweathers afraid, call his bluff, what do you have to lose besides the fight?)

42-0 perfect record, great fighter, though without fights against Cotto, Marg, P-Will (when they were both top WW's), Pac....too bad he could be 46-0 with great signature wins. I think he would beat Seg as well, maybe even KO him. Too bad much of the legacy will be about fights he didnt take. This is an objective take.

The Pac-Floyd presence is in every boxing conversation in the current generation....even if they are not directy mentioned.

If you read the post you would have seen that I am against cheating, also Hagler, Leonard, et all have thrown punches at opponents who are defenceless. Floyd threw a punch when the opposition was talking to the ref. The ref should have paused the fight and sorted out tghe problem and then let them carry on. But throwing a punch like that is not boxing. 


As for your quibble about Ali ripping his gloves because he was knocked senseless by Cooper is a bit misleading. Ali was knocked senseless so tell me how he did it?


As for HOF people saying yes I would have do that, then why did they NOT do that when they were active. I'll tell you why because they wouldnt!!

Why the f_ck did you bring race into it? What the hell has his race/creed got anything to do with this??

 

If you read the post you would have seen that I am against cheating, also Hagler, Leonard, et all have thrown punches at opponents who are defenceless. Floyd threw a punch when the opposition was talking to the ref. The ref should have paused the fight and sorted out tghe problem and then let them carry on. But throwing a punch like that is not boxing.

Durax, did you not see the fight?  Or is your hate for Mayweather that great.  While Ortiz was contemplating quitting, he was looking dead at Mayweather when he ate that left hook.  At that point Ortiz quit or looked for the ref to bail him out and STRAIGHT RIGHT, THAT'S ALL SHE WROTE.

As for HOF people saying yes I would have do that, then why did they NOT do that when they were active. I'll tell you why because they wouldnt!!

Durax, WOW!!!!!  So these HOF fighters are lying for Floyds sake.  EXPLAIN THAT.  THIS WILL BE INTERESTING.

Why the f_ck did you bring race into it? What the hell has his race/creed got anything to do with this??

Durax, Are you illiterate?  I said hate/prejudice.  Do some research and see if that's inclusive to race......


42-0 HATER

I reference to Ali ripping his gloves, I never said that. I used the pronoun they referring to his paople that I previously mentioned. Angelo Dundee has bragged on many occasions that when Ali got back to the corner, he cut Ali's glove to give him time to recover while another glove was fetched. After that an extra pair of gloves were required to be kept at ringside for every fight.

Cotto will make 43-0