The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 13, 2011 9:35 pm

Here's how I perceive the Orioles as of now. The corner IF positions could be reversed and the back-up catcher is not on the 40 man roster. I'm not sure if the newest addition, Beerer, is or not yet. I do like his stats though.

This represents what the team has at this point. I believe there are 37 players on the 40 man roster currently (those listed below less Beerer and Hester, and Dylan Bundy). Who is not tendered, invited to spring training, or is traded is yet to be announced.

The point of this thread is to watch the evolution of the roster as the winter progresses and make comments both positively and negatively on the transactions as they occur.

Like most of you, I certainly hope that it changes alot (for the better of course). But it does show the multiple weaknesses and lack of depth the team has currently. Hopefully we watch this roster metamorphosize right in front of our eyes into a competitive bunch come April, 2012. We'll see. Only time will tell. Here's my version of the team currently:


Starters:
CA SH Matt Wieters
1B LH Chris Davis
2B SH Brian Roberts
3B RH Mark Reynolds
SS RH J.J. Hardy
LF RH Nolan Reimold
CF RH Adam Jones
RF LH Nick Markakis
DH LH Luke Scott

Bench:
CA RH John Hester
IF  RH Ryan Adams
OF LH Matt Angle
UT RH Robert Andino

Other Options:
IF SH Josh Bell
IF SH Pedro Florimon
OF LH Kyle Hudson
IF RH Brandon Snyder
IF LH Joe Mahoney
OF RH  Scott Beerer


Rotation:
RP Jeremy Guthrie
RP Tommy Hunter
LP Zach Britton
RP Jake Arrieta
RP Alfredo Simon

Bullpen:
RP Kevin Gregg
RP Jim Johnson
RP Pedro Strop
RP Darren O'Day
RP Willie Eyre
LP Jo-Jo Reyes
LP Zach Phillips

Other Options:
LP Brian Matusz
RP Brad Bergesen
RP Jason Berken
RP Chris Tillman
LP Troy Patton
LP Pedro Viola
RP Rick VandenHurk
LP Clay Rapada

Before this thread was written, the O's added relief pitcher Darren O'Day who was released by the Rangers and six year minor league free agent Scott Beerer from the Rockies. I like O'Day alot. He's a sidearmer who has some success at the MLB level. I think he makes the team and plays a significant role in the 2012 bullpen.

Beerer is intriguing. He's a converted pitcher who appears to have some pop. I'll assume he has a good defensive arm. Maybe he's another Adam Loewen who is finding some success with the Blue Jays. He came cheap enough.

The team also lost players who chose free agency over a minor league assignment. Jake Fox (who I liked in the role he had with the club), Chris Jakubauskas who signed with Arizona, Mitch Atkins, Felix Pie and Jeremy Accardo.

Cesar Izturis and Vladimir Guerrero became unrestricted free agents at the end of the 2011 season.














OnThMove
SinceAug 22, 2006
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Post Deleted by Administrator

 
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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 14, 2011 2:03 pm

Maybe he's another Adam Loewen who is finding some success with the Blue Jays.

I hope not.  Loewen was released by the Blue Jays.

 I like O'Day alot. He's a sidearmer who has some success at the MLB level. I think he makes the team and plays a significant role in the 2012 bullpen.

If he can overcome his arm problems that he's had the past couple of years, I will agree with this statement.  If not, well he doesn't cost much.

Beerer is intriguing. He's a converted pitcher who appears to have some pop. I'll assume he has a good defensive arm.

Norfolk AAA fodder.  He's 29 years old. 

I also just don't see Willie Eyre or Jo-Jo Reyes anywhere near the ML team unless multiple injuries occur.  Troy Patton and Zach Phillips will probably be the LOOGY's/LH relievers in the bullpen. 

Brian Matusz admitted after the year that he came into sprng training out of shape.  He allowed his ego to get in the way figuring he had a spot sewed up and just did not put much effort into his off-season.  Let's hope that's all it was and not that he's a total bust. 
jazznbluz
SinceJan 9, 2007
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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 14, 2011 3:05 pm

Brian Matusz admitted after the year that he came into sprng training out of shape.  He allowed his ego to get in the way figuring he had a spot sewed up and just did not put much effort into his off-season.  Let's hope that's all it was and not that he's a total bust. 
I actually agree that this was most of his problems.  The thing we have to remember about these top 5/10 picks is that most of them have never failed.  They have succeeded at every level, probably all the way from little league.  It is not far fetch to think they would come into camp, after a great rookie year, and let their guard down some.  This is probably the first time he has failed, and now he has to learn how to overcome that failure.  He's a bright kid with great stuff.  I think he'll figure it out.

And we can forget about trading for Kemp...........looks like he's about to sign an 8 year $160 millon contract with the Dodgers.
SkeetersOs
SinceJun 15, 2007
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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 14, 2011 4:28 pm

OTM I hope you are not happy with that roster. I have read we should expect more of the same though. I have read that Duquette's philosophy is to spend money on rebuilding the farm system and scouting player development etc. He will target minor league free agents in the hope they turn into prospects. The O's should not get geared up for a big free agent pool this year.

What I dont understand is why we feel we can keep doing the same thing year in and year out and have success? I do not want the high price guys like Feilder Cj Wilson Poulos etc. As one or two of them will not turn this team around. I am sick of the injury reaches, taking chances on guys hoping for a diamond in the ruff. I mean we stay away form guys like Zambrano, E Jackson because they are head aches. We cant afford the big guns. We like to have the  J Dusches  and hope it works out.

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR

I will watch the Roster and hope just hope it changes dramatically with a few reliable names, not as much as the" has some upside IF kinda guys". 
All I want for X mas if three reliable good arms. Guthrie and if healthy Arrieta are my only 2 I like outa the five starters mentioned. Guthrie at the 4-5 slot and Arrieta at no more then #3 we will see.
Freshcut8
SinceJul 25, 2007
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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 14, 2011 5:40 pm

Also remember that Duquette is more of a trade guy than sign a FA type of guy.  Most experts predict that the 1st trade he looks to make is Mark Reynolds thinking he can still get something for him.   

As I said, Duquette = AM II.  Both believe in building the farm system & both believe in trades instead of FA's.  I just don't know if he has the same philsophy/mentality of grow the arms and buy the bats.  The biggest upside over AM is that Duquette becomes very active in foreign markets especially Latin America.  I think we can all agree that this is one of the biggest areas where the Orioles are lacking. 
jazznbluz
SinceJan 9, 2007
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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 14, 2011 6:06 pm

I had read that too Jazz, only what I had read was that (1) of the guys the Orioles interviewed for the GM position felt that Mark Reynolds was the best trade chip they had, but they didnt name which guy it was. ID say there was a pretty good chance that the guy who proposed trading him was the same guy that traded him from the Diamondbacks to here in Jerry Dipota.

IMO there is only one team that makes sense to trade for Mark Reynolds and thats the Phillies. Since they lost Ryan Howard, Placido Planco is 36 and Jim Thome is 41. They have Joe Blanton to offer, I doubt that gets it done but if they perhaps offered Vance Worley or another young pitcher, I could see the Os parting ways with Reynolds - but I dont place very high odds on that.

Unless of course they give Aramis Ramirez a 4 yr deal which will put him at 37 when it expires and roll with Chris Davis at 1b.
devilraid316
SinceMar 11, 2007
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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 14, 2011 8:03 pm

Or this is another angle that should be explored since Brian Roberts cant stay healthy of late and they need leadoff help. The last part of the sentance is really what makes me like this guy even more. Wouldnt be the first guy to forget how to play in Seattle either.


The Chone Figgins' signing has been nothing short of a disaster for the Mariners, which is why the team is willing to include cash in any trade involving the infielder according to Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. There isn't much interest right now, but Morosi says the Mariners view the Reds, Giants, and Tigers as possible trade fits.

Figgins, 33 in January, has hit just .236/.309/.285 with 53 steals in 74 chances during his two years in Seattle. He can play second and third bases, and has also filled in at left field in recent years. There are still two years and $17MM left on his contract, and a $9MM option for 2014 will vest with 600 plate appearances in 2013. It's not unreasonable to think the Mariners will have to eat upwards of $15MM to move Figgins

devilraid316
SinceMar 11, 2007
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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 14, 2011 8:25 pm

IMO there is only one team that makes sense to trade for Mark Reynolds and thats the Phillies.

The Marlins.  Reynolds makes $11 mil next year and isn't a FA until 2013.  The4 Matrlins are looking to make a big splash this off-season and aren't afraid to shell out the bucks.  They also need a 3B very badly unless they sign Jose Reyes and move Hanley Ramirez to 3rd.

The A's.  Billy Beane would make that trade if he thinks he can trade him off later in the year.  They also need a 3B.

The Mariners.  They need offense and a 3B.

The Dodgers.  They need a 3B and they just gave Matt Kemp a very big contract.  They could also use a 1B.

The RockiesIan Stewart just isn't cutting it. Like the Dodgers, they could also use a 1B. 

The Tigers.  Can't see Brandon Inge hanging around.       

The White Sox.  I don't think they're too thrilled with Brett Morel.  Actually Reynolds for Carlos Quentin might make sense, if Q can stay healthy.    
jazznbluz
SinceJan 9, 2007
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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 16, 2011 3:22 am

Dan Duquette On Pitching, Reynolds, Extensions

By Ben Nicholson-Smith[November 15, 2011 at 8:52pm CST]

The success of the Orioles' offseason hinges, in large part, on their ability to add to the pitching staff. But at the General Manager Meetings in Milwaukee today, newly-appointed GM Dan Duquette suggested he'll let the market develop before obtaining pitching reinforcements.

"Everybody else is chasing it, too," Duquette told MLBTR. "We have to wait for the sharks to feed and then we'll wait to see what's left over."

In other words, it doesn’t appear that the Orioles will sign highly-coveted free agents such as C.J. Wilson and Mark Buehrle. Baltimore begins the offseason with internal rotation candidates such as Jeremy Guthrie, Tommy Hunter, Zach Britton, Brian Matusz, Jake Arrieta, Brad Bergesen, Jo-Jo Reyes.

Duquette also noted that the defensive alignment for Mark Reynolds and Chris Davis remains undetermined, though manager Buck Showalter is leaning toward playing Reynolds at first with Davis at third. Duquette hasn't yet considered extensions for Adam Jones and Matt Wieters, but he wants to keep both players in place, so the topic may come up after December.

That quote. Where have I heard *that* before? Wait for the sharks to feed, then we'll get the scraps. Got it. Doesn't seem like they are talking about trading Reynolds, though.
Sesshomaru
SinceApr 7, 2007
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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 16, 2011 7:41 am

Sess..........just because something our GM said made it into an article, doesn't make it true.  I know a lot of fans want to know exactly what is going on, but it is horrible business to tip your hat through the media.  Take care of business behind closed doors.........that is all that I am worried about.

And as far as the top pitching FA, Wilson.  I agree that the O's should stay away.  He is going to get paid too much money because he is by default the top FA.  Buehrle is a different story.

Again, dont believe everything you read.............at least give the offseason a chance to play out first.
SkeetersOs
SinceJun 15, 2007
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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 16, 2011 11:24 am

At least he didnt say that he was gonna let the market play out. Oops yeah he did. Sigh. Im tired of hearing the give him a chance speach. I heard it when Ray Miller replaced Davey Johnson. I heard it when they said let the kids play and wasted 4 years with Mike Hargrove. We heard about the 3 yr plan with AM which was more like a 3 yr exit strategy for him.

 

 

devilraid316
SinceMar 11, 2007
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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 16, 2011 2:08 pm

Don't you mean "Don't believe anything you read?" Smile
Sesshomaru
SinceApr 7, 2007
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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 16, 2011 4:45 pm

Im tired of hearing the give him a chance speach. I heard it when Ray Miller replaced Davey Johnson. I heard it when they said let the kids play and wasted 4 years with Mike Hargrove. We heard about the 3 yr plan with AM which was more like a 3 yr exit strategy for him.
Yeah, you are right....................ok - new mindset then.  Come on O's in 2016!!  WHOOO-WHO!!  Now that will work for me Yell
SkeetersOs
SinceJun 15, 2007
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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 16, 2011 4:46 pm

does anybody know what we would have to offer to Vlad for arbitration?
SkeetersOs
SinceJun 15, 2007
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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 16, 2011 9:51 pm

Vlad isn't up for arbitration. The O's up for arbitration are Jo-Jo Reyes, Brad Bergesen, Robert Andino, Alfredo Simon, Adam Jones, Felix Pie, Jim Johnson, Jeremy Guthrie, Luke Scott and Jeremy Accardo.
tyler78
SinceJun 27, 2007
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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 17, 2011 6:50 am

Vlad isn't up for arbitration.
If the O's offer Vlad arbitration, and he turns it down, they will be able to gain a compensatory draft pick. 

So...........again................w
hat do the O's have to offer Vlad in order to be in line for a draft pick??
SkeetersOs
SinceJun 15, 2007
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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 17, 2011 8:22 am

Since.......we're getting......smart, I've read the O's aren't even planning to offer Vlad anything. There is nothing on how much the O's would have to offer him, and I also think they won't offer anything. It's shame to see the shape his body is in, as there is no way he could play the field anymore. He might end up in the same situation as Jermaine Dye and Carlos Delgado.
tyler78
SinceJun 27, 2007
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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 17, 2011 8:52 am

Since.......we're getting......smart,
Who's getting smart?...........I asked a questions, you came back with semi-incorrect answer, and I had to restate my question.
I've read the O's aren't even planning to offer Vlad anything.
Yeah, I tend not to belive or worry about what journalist write..........most of it is hot air just so they can collect a paycheck.

I'm just wondering what the amount is that he would have to be offered.

SkeetersOs
SinceJun 15, 2007
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The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

November 17, 2011 10:25 am

Players that have fewer than six years experience have to accept arbitration while players with more do NOT. But anyone can be offered arbitration.

I believe that players with more than six years experience(as opposed to those with fewer than six years who can have their salaries cut by twenty-five percent at the most) can be offered anything in arbitration. However, don't forget that the way arbitration works is that the player offers one figure, the team offers another and the arbitrators pick one of the two. It would be highly unconventional for a player to get a pay cut in arbitration. If the team offered say two million and Vlad asked for ten, he'd probably end up getting ten million.

odawg36
SinceNov 14, 2006