The 2012 Orioles Winter Thread

I wouldn't mind a more permanent DH but I think he has to be capable of doing more than just DH ing. What I mean is rolling out the same starters every night is not a terrible idea as long as it works but I dont want the ageing player who can only DH. I believe that the freshier you can keep your horses the better they will run.

Finding a player that can fill in for Adam Jones in centerfield for a game or two a month, would only help him stay healthy. Same goes for Nick Markakis and maybe even J.J. Hardy.

With Markakis his assists have going down since 08 when he had 17. Now this is a product of teams not wanting to challenge him as much as any thing but they went all the way down to 3 this past year, and players where challenging him more and some of his throws werent even close.

Davis has a strong enough arm to play RF and wouldnt have as much ground to cover in RF thanks to the scoreboard behind him 81 games out of the year. Jones could also range more towards RF with Davis out there if Markakis was to be moved to LF. Also I think Reimold is better in RF than LF.

I dont quite see the difference in a player trying to advance an extra base when a ball is hit to left field as opposed to right. If you cant throw the guy out, you cant throw the guy out and the other team will exploit it every time. Markakis is more athletic than both Davis and Reimold and could possibly steal some home runs in Lf where he wouldnt have that opportunity in Rf. And nothing is saying that to play match ups that you couldn't put Nick back in Rf for some games.

But I myself would kind of like to see him at another position than RF, because I dont think his full capabilities as a defender are being utilized due to the scoreboard amongst other things. I guess I just look at the scoreboard and say that if there is a wall scraper off of the Rf fence its gonna be an extra base hit regardless and there is nothing anyone can do about it, where as a wall scraper in left field could be a 2 or 3 row seat home run if the outfielder misjudges it.

O's picked up the option for Luis Ayala at 1 million dollars. I dont know if it means anything or not but everyone that could elected free agency today too.

Wow Congratulations to Matt Weiters, JJ Hardy, and Adam Jones for winnign GG awards. I think the O's had the most. There have been years when these guys deserved them more I think, but years when they deserved them and didn't get them too. It all comes out in the wash. Matt had a number of uncharacteristic errors early in the year but all in all he has to be in the top 3 if you are starting a team. Jones simply needed to play 30 feet further back and he could have been winning this every year, and JJ could get this any year. Maybe next year we can add one at 1b. I think Texeira is about to give up his crown as popele are noticing he isn't playing that much....

Going to be honest. Adam Jones should not have won this year. I'll give it to Hardy (got robbed last year IMO) and Wieters has probably the best arm of any catcher not named Yaddy Molina. But Jones??? No way. With that said congrats to them all.


~Jeff 

Gold gloves are just like the All Star game its a popularity thing as much as anything. Hardy was robbed last year, just like Ripken was robbed the year he only made 3 errors for the entire season. Now there wasnt many players that where more popular than Ripken during his time, but I think people took for granted how good he was out there and how routine he made things look as opposed to the flash and flair that someone like Ozzie Guillen had who won it over him that year of only 3 errors.

Also I think a team and their success has a lot to do with the voting. How many last place teams have players that win gold gloves? Certainly not 3 of them.

The Orioles have declined the option of Mark Reynolds. It is yet to be seen if they'll offer him arbitration.

Want to see my shocked face?  LOL

Okay, so I'm reading that both Tsuyoshi Wada and Nolan Reimold may not be ready for next spring. Both will say they will, but for this response, I'll say that neither will be ready.

I'll also assume that Brian Roberts will be ready and healthy. Afterall, that's the premise that DD and Buck are going on. The addition of Casilla could be viewed in many ways, but it clearly ends speculation that the Orioles believe that the 2B position is a top priority.

I'll also assume that Reynolds returns with some kind of a multi-year contract that everyone is happy with, and that both McLouth and Suanders are re-signed (since the O's brass said that they would like to do just that).

I believe that signing of the switch hitting Casilla spells the end of the Robert Andino the super-sub experiment, and probably pushes Ryan Flaherty to a full time role at 2B playing for the Tides.

Re-signing McLouth, especially if Reimold is healing very slowly (and he is), is probably an important move even if the team signs a middle of the order type LF later on.

A Joe Saunders re-signing seems like a no-brainer given that team has always liked him and he performed so well in the O's uniform after they traded for him in July..

Consequently, here is what I offer as a possible scenario (one that I would like to see happen). For the position players, the Orioles should attempt to re-sign Nate McLouth, and sign FA 1B/DH Mike Napoli and FA OF Torii Hunter. Then, release or trade Andino and keep Casilla as the back-up 2B (SS and 3B too).

The 2013 roster would vary from the 2012 roster as Casilla would replace Andino, Hunter replaces Reimold and McLouth replaces Endy Chavez. Manny Machado would also be a new addition taking Ryan Flaherty's 2012 roster spot. The rest of the hitters would be Matt Wieters, Mark Reynolds, Brian Roberts, J.J. Hardy, Nick Markakis, Adam Jones, Chris Davis, Wilson Betemit and Taylor Teagarden. This would be a nice overall upgrade.

You would also have an option to release Teagarden with the addirion of Napoli and use that roster spot on a PH type like Jim Thome, or to carry an extra bullpen arm. An extra fielder may also be the way to go to give Buck more options when the team plays intra-league games this season, which will be more frequent and all season long.

From a pitching perspective, the in tact bullpen of Jim Johnson, Luis Ayala, Darren O'Day, Tommy Hunter, Pedro Strop, Troy Patton and another lefty like Brian Matusz should be just as potent as last season, and a rotation of Jason Hammel, Wei-Yin Chen, Joe Saunders, Miguel Gonzalez and Chris Tillman may be more than enough to duplicate or surpass last season's success. There's plenty of depth to choose from with Zach Britton, Jake Arrieta, Stu Pomeranz, Steve Johnson and Dylan Bundy among others who will be a call away in Norfolk.

There are still options outside of the organization too. Former O's Koji Uehara and Matt Lindstrom could be available and would be worth considering. Others include Edwin Jackson, Kyle Lohse, Dan Haren, Brandon McCarthy and Scott Feldman. Other impact hitters like Carlos Beltran, B.J. Upton, Josh Hamilton, Michael Bourn, Delmon Young and Ryan Ludwick could garner some interest too if the O's are willing to go "all in" at that position.

Anyway, just a few thoughts to toss out there.

The Orioles made a flurry of moves today. They only have 39 on the 40 man roster. I agree Castilla more than likely spells the end of Robert Andino here. Seeing as Castilla can play SS and 2b and can steal bases and bunt. I think they may cut ties with Ryan Adams all together after his positive test.

But it may mean nothing but only having 39 on the 40 man leads me to believe they may sign somebody soon once free agency kicks off in a few hours. I dont think they are gonna bring back Nate McLouth. In the back of my mind I was wondering if they could find a way to sign Delmon Young. He is an absolute Yankee killer and has had great postseason success. Problem is he is limited to mostly DH.

I was suprised to see the O's not get involved with either Dan Haren or Ervin Santana.

I don't think the Castilla move means anything more than they are not satisfied with Andino as the super sub, and that Flaherty likely starts the season in Norfolk where he belongs. I do not think it means they are settled at 2b. Though as I have previously written Castilla is the type of guy I wanted. Someone versatile like Izturz or Lopez. I just wanteed one a little better. LOL. Stay tuned.

FA starts and we get finalized who is or is not being offered arbitration. I like Napoli OK but I like him as the, or at least a, backup catcher and send Teagarden packing, but that probably is not going to happen either. He could be an able replacement of Betemit as well.

I also have heard that Wada may not be ready for spring, but I have not heard that about Reimold yet. I don't mind Mclouth but I think we can do better and I think he is not interested in platooning or being the 4th OF. I believe Saunders wants to get paid more than he is worth after his post season, nationally televised competency test, and DD just is not into that. I hope I am wrong about Saunders as I think he is a great every 5th day type of guy, and obviously a valuable playoff pitcher, but I doubt I am.

Tori Hunter worth a 13 Million dollar chance for one year? I think so.

The offseason is the most interesting time in sports at least for me. So many different angles can play out. Once the playoffs arive, you know who the players are and who you have to match up against. But the offseason gives so many possibilities.

I look at the Rangers and with them potentially letting two of their big time players go in Mike Napoli and Josh Hamilton and say to myself they wont just sit on what they have. They are gonna add something to try and replace that. Do they go hard after a pitcher like Zack Greinke and help hurt a division rival like the Angels? Do they go after Tori Hunter themselves to replace Hamilton at least defensively? They had interest in David Ortiz but he apparently re signed with Boston.

Hunter has made no qualms about not only wanting to stay in LA but he wants that ring. His career is winding down and I dont think money is the thing with him as much as going to a place where he feels he can finally get that ring. For the strides the Orioles made I dont think players vision the O's as the place to win one. So unless it really turns south for Hunter and the offers I expect him to stay on the west coast with either LA or Texas.

The way I look at Napoli is as I mentioned where he could be used in a similar role that Texas used him in. Catching some, playing first base or Dhing the other. Baltimore is one of the few teams that could offer him that. If his contract demands where reasonable the only thing the O's would really have to balance is, is his offense better than Mark Reynolds and is it better and more consistant to the degree that we forget about the defense that Reynolds played at 1b? That seems to be the 11 million dollar question from where I sit.

But what I keep coming back to is that you can work on defense, especially in the offseason leading up to the season and I dont think the O's should be content with sh8 canning the idea of Chris Davis playing 1b. Work with him and see if he cant build himself up over there. Even if they inked Napoli, hes gonna need a day off or someone is gonna have to fill the void when he goes behind the plate to give Wieters a day off. Wilson Betemit is serviceable to be nice defensively at least at 1b. But I'd rather see if Davis couldn't turn that corner. And its the same way I feel about Ryan Flaherty. They now have the option to send him to Norfolk, but the limited time he was there last year he absolutely tore the cover off of the ball. Whether it was rehab assignments or not, its hard to keep someone whos hitting like that down in the minors.


Lots of ifs as is always the case in the offseason. But if what I've suggested holds true and they do pursue Napoli and give Davis a look at 1b to the point where he would become the back up 1b, the door could swing open to signing a player like Delmon Young. Putting a Yankee killer on this team, I would think would be very enticing for the Orioles. He doesn't bring much with the glove. But having the option of him being the DH, seems like an upgrade over anything else they could realistically do. And I dont like the idea of an everyday DH at all but if that would be the case, I would rather it be with a guy that still has a prime to look forward to and not a player who is closer to the retirement home.

Actually I am a little confused. There is nothing wrong with Davis's fielding. For his career he has been solid. The reason he isn't playing 1b is because that leaves nowhere to play Reynolds. Davis has a few other positions he has ably manned, but Reynolds is hot garbage anywhere else. I doubt we go after Napoli unless we do not attempt to resign Reynolds. I see Napoli in Boston.

I really wish people would be a little more realistic. Flaherty did not knck the cover off anything. he hit for neither power or average. He did hit with average power. 9 XBH and a .258 average. You can speculate all you like about what he would have done if he had played every day. He didn't, he wasn't good enough to, and he still isn't good enough to. He needs a year at Norfolk a a starter to hone his defense and his batting eye and power. He may be good someday, I mean they saw enough in him to let him clog up a roster spot all season, so he does have potential, but he is not ready now. Actually didnt a 2b position just open up in Norfolk (here that Adams?)


Undecided on Delmon Young. I don't really like him much, but a times he has hown real flashes that he is a clutch hitter and we do need a few of those. And why does anyone think that Betemit is servicable at 1b? In 12 big league seasons he has exactly 80 chances at 1b with 4 errors for a .950 fielding % at 1b which is horrible. For us he has only 15 but did still manage an error while there, and it was an ugly one. The difference between he and Reynolds is most of Reynolds errors at 3b were throwing errors. Betemit cannot catch it or throw it and you really do need to be able to catch at 1b.     

Ooops make that 80 games not chances so his fielding is higher than that, but 80 games in 12 years is not really a big enough sample to say he is anything. of course it also isn't enough to say he is not, but we already have at least two guys that are filling that spot and if you got Napoli that would be another. Personally if we can't find anyone else to DH or be a specialist batter and we have room then OK, but I never want to see him even thinking about a mitt. He has a very reasonable price tag, but I think this team is rapidly getting past guys being attractive because they are cheap. They are either part of taking the next step, or they are not. Betemit clearly is not.

Teams don't need to tender a player a contract until Nov 30. I expect some free agent movement to happen now. Makes sense to see if you can get something done early so that way you're not hoping to get something later.

I don't see the Orioles spending the money to get Napoli, Reynolds, Hunter, Saunders and McLouth. That would cost 30-45 million just for this year. I don't see this team spending 115 million and if they are willing to up the payroll that much, they might as well get a star.

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't go after a single impact free agent. Maybe we'll keep Saunders, McLouth or Reynolds if they cost something like 1 yr and 5 million. I see us getting a starter late in the free agent season and making a trade or two. I also see us getting a few other guys out of the bargain bin. Adding Uehara to the club would be nice for the bullpen. You can never have too much talent and he's one of the few elite relievers out there.

I am ready for this offseason as I believe if we make the right moves you will see us take the next step next year. so this is what I think we should do:
1) sign Josh Hamilton to play left field ( if the price gets too high an alternative would be B.J. Upton) 
2)sign Dan Haren He is comming off a down year and shouldn't be too expensive

3) Trade a package built around Avery, Arrietta, and either Andino or another young pitcher for Chase Headly    

4) move Hardy to second base and have Machado play SS( or you could have Machado play second until he gets more experience)
5)resign Mark Reynolds to play 1st base or an alternative would be Napolie
6)Trade a package of some of our major league pitching and minor league position players for an established ace
7) resign Saunders 

1) Sign Hamilton to play left to a 4 yr 105-110 mil contract with an option for a 5th yr if that wont't get it done then sign B.J. Upton to a 5 yr 55-60 mil contract

2) Trade Avery Arrietta and 2 other players for Chase Headly 

3)  Sign Dan Haren to a 3 yr 21-27 Mil contract

4) Trade a Package of Britton, E. Rodriguez, Miguel Gonzalez, N. Reimold For Billy Butler

5) Resign Saunders to a 2 yr 14 mil contract

6) Sign Uehara to a 3 yr 12 mil contract

7) Trade Betemit and Andino either as part of the Previous trades or as salary dumpfor minor league arms

8) release Roberts or move him to coaching if possible trade him   

9) Resign Quintanilla to a 1yr 1.5 mil contract
 
Rotation
Haren
Hammel
Chen
Tillman
Saunders
Lineup
Markakis(RF)
Butler(DH or 1st)
Jones(CF)
Hamilton(LF)
Weiters(C)
Davis(1st or DH)
Headly(3rd)
Machado(SS)
Hardy(2nd)
Bullpen       
Jim Johnson(CL)
Uehara
Strop
O'day
Ayala
Patton(Lefty Specialist)
S Johnson(Long man)   
Bench
Reimold(4th OF)
Teagarden
Flaherty
Quintanilla    
 Top Minor League Help(Players who could possibly help us this year not prospect rankings)
Dylan Bundy(SP)
Kevin Gausman(SP)
L.J. Hoes(OF)   
Jonathan Schoop(2nd, SS, 3rd)
Brandon Klien(RP)
Joe Mahoney(1st)
Mike Wright(RP)   

I get your point O dawg but only the Orioles know what they are gonna spend and what they are willing to spend. I dont think they are gonna put a cap on what they want to spend. Rather if it makes sense to spend the money they will.

I look at a few things from around the leagues. Of course if depends on what you want to believe. But apparently the Mets arent gonna be players at all on the free agent front. Their focus is to try and sign David Wright long term. There is also a belief that they will sell high and trade R.A. Dickey while they have that option. Hes 38 and more than likely is gonna win the Cy Young. His stock wont ever get any higher, especially since hes only at 5 million dollars.

When the look at the Orioles and there un williness to give contracts higher than 2 or 3 years for pitchers. Trading for Dickey makes a high level of sense. The question is what is the asking price and would they ask the O's to take a contract like Jason Bay on and would the O's be willing to take that on? But when you look at everything I think Dickey makes sense. It was Buck Showalter who encouraged Dickey to learn how to throw the knuckleball and I have no idea if Dickey has any right to decline a trade somewhere but if that was in play I cant see him blocking a trade to head back to re unite with Buck.

The other New York team doesnt appear to want to bring back Kuroda because he is only interested in a one year deal and than return to Japan. To my knowledge the Yanks didnt put in a qualifying offer for Kuroda, now the Dodgers have interest in bringing him back, but regardless of who gets him, it will be for only one year.

He makes sense here as well, given that the O's dont want to give out multi year contracts to pitchers. If the starting 5 where Dickey, Chen, Hammel, Kuroda and Tillman - thats quite an improvement from starting off last year.

I agree with you partially Devil, but I think it can be a bit of both. They'll be willing to go over what they want to pay if they see a major upgrade like they did for Vlad in 2011. But I think that means they'll want to spend 90 million but will be willing to go to 100 million if they find the right deal. If they are willing to spend 125 million then that means things get interesting.

Kuroda was given a qualifying offer by the Yankees. I expect him to be back and I wouldn't be surprised if he went for two years. There's a reason he hasn't agreed to 1 and 13 yet.

Dickey would be a nice upgrade. If the Mets want to trade him it's worth looking into.

[http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ra-di
ckey/]


The idea was floated a couple of times that they would move him and why and I think by different people. Now that may mean nothing, but normally where there is smoke and logic - fire isnt far behind.

A lot of good points where made. One was the effectiveness of knuckleballers past the age of 40 with Dickey turning 38 and a team that isnt gonna be players on the free agent front, it would make more sense to part ways with him, while his stock is at an all time high.