Ted Thompson

Is this off-season a waterdshed year for our GM?

Everyone knew we had a crap defense this year, but they covered it up fairly well all year with a powerful offense as well as 36 turnovers. But when the "D" needed to perform, we showed that ugly side in KC and yesterday and could not overcome the "D" each time, by making our own mistakes. The Packer's D lead the league in futility this year averaging 300+ yards per game allowed and the most 20+ yard plays in the league.

So, with a 15-1 season behind us, we can safely say the offense is pretty much set - albeit a few tweeks here and there. Rodgers, Jennings, Jordy, Grant/Starks/Saine and a TE that cathes the ball means we got a pretty solid "O." Some line upgrades, perhaps, but the defense leaves a lot to be desired heading into camp this May.

So I ask, do the Packers stay the course with BAA drafting and securing low round, street FA's to fill roster spots? Or do the Packers take another Raji-Matthews draft approach and fill up the D with studs? Do the Packers dip their toes into the FA market and secure a "Jared Allen/Peppers" type FA without breaking the bank?

Going forward, the defense needs to be re-tooled and outfitted with different players - albeit play makers, I'd say.

How the front office attacks (or not) this off season (I feel) will dicate the future success in the near term for this franchise.

I would hope that T squared focuses on the D side of the ball for the first 3 picks at a minimum.

I wouldn't call it a watershed year but I think that your point about our defense brings up some good questions.  We obviously don't have enough talent on the defensive side of the ball.  Loosing Nick Collins and Cullen Jenkins from last year's defense was very obvious.  Trying to equip the linebackers - the heart of a 3-4 defense - with undrafted free agents and 7th rounders is not going to work.  Yes, we do need to draft and sign some real talent to fill these needs.

At the risk of ruffling more feathers, I will say the same for our running game.  The Giants focused on and shutdown our receivers - this is the main engine for our offense.  Aside from running Rodgers, we had no effective counter measure to make the Giants respect our run and drop out of full coverage.  Coincidentially, our active running backs are undrafted free agents and 7th rounders.

Even Vic Ketchman acknowledges that it starts with talent.  We didn't have a return game until we got a high pick in Randall Cobb.  Schemes are great for maximizing what you can do with your talent but you still need the playmakers who can and will make the plays.  I feel sorry for Dom Capers who will take a beating for his defense.  As the game progressed and his attempts to "dial something up" stalled at the Giants line, it was apparent that our season-long defense was "as good as it gets".

Some key players regressed without an offseason. Raji, Williams and Shields were just ineffective, and I think Hawk managed to bulk himself up out of playing shape again. Also I think that while Matthews did improve against the run and pass, his lighter faster frame was less effective as a pass rusher. Sure he's much better in coverage and yes he pursues better from the back side and oh yes he's better around the edges and rushes faster and quicker but damnit he didn't have a bull rush this season and no I don't think it's a PEDs issue. We need Matthews to get thicker and turn back into a DeMarcus Ware type rusher for us. He does that and we're a better defense overnight.

As for TT's drafting, I don't think he really does do BAA. He's more of pick a need and then find the BAA of several different categories. For instance look at Rodgers, met a long term need. Look at Hawk, addressed an immediate need even though Vernon Davis was probably the better although less needed player. Even Harrell was a needed component in the Jim Bates style Defense. Then you have Raji, Matthews, Bulaga and Sherrod who were all big needs. The closest to a BAA pick was Nelson and back then it looked like we didn't have any immediate needs.

This year I think Teddy will look hard at the Front 7 and he may even trade up to grab someone he really likes. The recipe for success on defense is obvious, get a killer front 7 or bust.     

No question here what TT will do.  He is a business man don't forget and the GB Packers ARE indeed a business, like it or not but the hallowed grounds of "LAAAMMBBEAU FIELD" is a joke at this point.  This is not a cold wx team.  Hopefully the Pack loses some on purpose next yr so they can avoid the home playoff games.  LOL

So, since he's a business man, he will stick with what he knows, and thats the BOTTOM LINE.  FA's will not be brought in, just like in the past, b/c they are too expensive.  He will attempt to draft again as always.  Maybe pull off a Raji/Clay type of deal again, we'll see.  But forget about FA's, TT just won't do it b/c of the bottom line of business.  If he does bring in a FA, it'll be a benched and garbage player from another team off waivers, like Erik Walden....and that guys stinks.  

The Packers could go 0-16 every year and those idiots with season tix would still sell the place out just so they can all go fat, dumb, and happy, tailgating, drinking beer, and BSing with their friends for something to do.  The business model of the GB Packers is a success, win or lose right now.  And for that reason, TT ain't gonna do squat to fix this team. 

One things for sure, he better research his no 1 draft picks better, b/c a lot of them have been complete and utter flops.  Bring in a CB that is high round and can cover!  AND a LB that is worth a S H I T.

Bucky,


Flop after flop? Do you even watch the Packers?

Of Ted Thompson's top draft picks here we go:


2005: Aaron Rodgers- Best QB in the league under 30 and maybe the best period.


2006: Hawk, a disappointment but still a solid reliable player.


2007: Harrell, a bust I'll grant you.


2008: Nelson, a stud.


2009: Raji and Matthews, Matthews is one of the best in the league and Raji has been a good player for and has occasionally been an sbsolute beast.


2010: Brian Bulaga, he's been a stud at RT.


2011: Dereck Sherrod, looked bad in preseason but he showed a lot of improvement up until his freak injury. If he recovers from that broken leg, and he should, he's going to be a heck of an LT.


Flop after flop? Get lost dude.                               

First of all TT HAS to focus on the Defense... sorry but guys like Charlie Peprah and Frank Zombo are TOO SLOW in the secondary and with the loss of Nick Collins ( who may or may not come back in 2012 ) could mean we look for more Safety help. And we definitly need a DE -- sorry but Jarius Wynn and Mike Jenkins aren't getting it done as well -- need a serious pass rusher to keep both sides a threat when we send in 3 or 4 guys upfront to keep the oposing QB's on their toes.

Finally we have to keep our main core players ( starters ) on Offense and Defense.... and decide where we go from here as far as drafting them or Free agency.

this was a setback because of the potential we had to go farther but instead did a FACEPLANT in the mud.....

gotta do better in 2012.... 

TT should:
 Let Jermichael Finley go and franchise Matt Flynn to use him as trade bait for hopefully a low 1st or 2nd round pick in the upcoming draft.  Shore up the RB position through free agents or bringing Ryan Grant back on a 1-year contract at a discount price. 

Then draft defense similar to past years (not like 2011 draft).  Nick Collins may not ever be the same.  Charles Woodson probably has 1-2 years left.  Time to get a secondary stud (we need 2 DBs) and a pass rusher, and the other pieces like Ryan Pickett, Clay Matthews, A. J. Hawk are still fairly young and effective.

This is a 5-year run by the Packers.  They really aren't old at any position and hopefully the Giants loss will create a hunger again.  

IMHO the Packers will get better simply by having an offseason. I expect guys like Raji, Williams, Shields and Hawk to improve markedly. Williams and Shields will have OTAs under the watchful eye of Joe Whitt Jr. Raji will come in stronger more explosive and less fat and finally AJ Hawk will have Coach Redding to tell him when he's lifting too much. I think cats like So'oto and Neal will also benefit from being in the team's offseason S&C program instead of pumping iron for beach body results they'll be working towards football effectiveness with Coach Redding and training staff locking them out of the gym when needed.

Next year we'll see more focused play from Shields and Williams, a more explosive Raji, and a lighter faster AJ Hawk. Oh yeah and who knows maybe Neal and So'Oto will be able to stay healthy when they don't come into the season over muscled.

I have no doubt TT is going to use Matt Flynn as trade bait to get both new defensive bodies and more coveted draft picks that he will use to select various defensive players to patch the holes. Packer nation I wouldn't worry.  And if Ted strikes gold and finds another Matthews or two, g0d help the other teams in this league. 


my 2 cents.

"I have no doubt TT is going to use Matt Flynn as trade bait to get both new defensive bodies and more coveted draft picks..."

Flynn is a free agent. He walks for free. The Packers get nothing for the time and effort we put into this guy. Free and Clear. 

IMHO the Packers will get better simply by having an offseason. I expect guys like Raji, Williams, Shields and Hawk to improve markedly. Williams and Shields will have OTAs under the watchful eye of Joe Whitt Jr. Raji will come in stronger more explosive and less fat and finally AJ Hawk will have Coach Redding to tell him when he's lifting too much

I wish that I shared your blind optimism about the off-season but I don't.  First, coach Redding left the team two years ago.  Telling a 6 year pro like A.J. Hawk to stop lifting too much weight isn't going to stop him from doing jumping jacks in the endzone while Mario Manningham catches a TD.  Hawk can't cover a TE or receiver and that isn't going to change.

B.J. Raji does need an off-season but not to trim-up.  Because our D-line only really has Raji and Pickett, Raji played a ton of snaps - something like 90% of the defensive downs.  Raji simply wore down as the season progressed.  We overplayed him because we don't have any talent to substitute into the D-line.

A full off-season with OTAs will help us but it will help every team.  Williams and Shields may learn more but will it help if they are chasing around receivers for too long because we get no pass rush?  Can Vic So'oto be turned into a super linebacker when he was a marginal BYU lineman?  He, like most of our defensive personnel are low-round projects that may or may not pan out.  Yeah, OTAs and a full off-season will help but this defense basically played intact from last year.

IMO, this isn't a issue of training - it is an issue of talent.  I appreciate that you are positive about the off-season and I don't intend a mean tone - I just don't see this as a "coaching-up" problem.   

Good points PackMan,

What was the #1 problem?  State Farm commercials.  All the talk of 19-0.  Jermichael Finley.  Plenty, plenty to distract a team from it's mission.   Let's face it, most of the Packers were off their game Sunday including the coach and to some extent Aaron Rodgers.  He played great; don't get me wrong, but he did miss some open targets and his balls were almost too hard sometimes.  He was throwing angry after the first few drops, and that caused more drops.  You can say Greg Jennings dropped the first quarter potential TD pass but it was a laser on the wrong shoulder and had a high level of difficulty.  He ran hard when he needed to.  No doubt Rodgers is going to return with a vengence.
The defense had problems all year, especially stopping teams on 3rd down.  Desmond Bishop cant' cover TEs or RBs... same goes for Hawk.  That means either Clay Matthews has to drop in coverage, which he did more often this year, or we need more versitile LBs that aren't specialists.  Our secondary was a joke... bunch of dreadlocks running around clueless while receivers run circles around them and grab balls at will.

The Hakeem Nicks catch at the end of the first half should summarize all their problems.  That just shouldn't happen at the professional level.    

 Let Jermichael Finley go and franchise Matt Flynn to use him as trade bait for hopefully a low 1st or 2nd round pick in the upcoming draft.  Shore up the RB position through free agents or bringing Ryan Grant back on a 1-year contract at a discount price. 

TT can only franchise tag Flynn if he has a trading partner firmly "cemented" in place otherwise the Packers are going to have an ugly salary cap situation. 

It still makes sense to negotiate with Finley or tag him since Quarless is going to be on the shelf for a while and Crabtree isn't the receiving threat or diversion Finley is. 

I wish that I shared your blind optimism about the off-season but I don't.  First, coach Redding left the team two years ago.  Telling a 6 year pro like A.J. Hawk to stop lifting too much weight isn't going to stop him from doing jumping jacks in the endzone while Mario Manningham catches a TD.  Hawk can't cover a TE or receiver and that isn't going to change.

It's not blind optimism when your team has what is widely regarded as the finest offseason program in the league. GB does a better job evaluating and developing talent than any other team save maybe the New Englad Patriots and that's not just a Homer opinion but one shared by a number of different analysts. Remember a lot of us were concerned about the team's inability pick up UFAs, create adequate competion in camp and the team's inability to develop existing project players. As for AJ Hawk, he was markedly more effective last season than this year... why?

B.J. Raji does need an off-season but not to trim-up.  Because our D-line only really has Raji and Pickett, Raji played a ton of snaps - something like 90% of the defensive downs.  Raji simply wore down as the season progressed.  We overplayed him because we don't have any talent to substitute into the D-line.

He did not play 90% of the snaps throughout the year, although he pretty much did that for the entire season of 2010. I don't have the numbers but I know that he played a significantly lower percentage of snaps this season and was still less effective. From the first game on, he just never showed the kind of burst or strength that he showed the year before.

A full off-season with OTAs will help us but it will help every team.  Williams and Shields may learn more but will it help if they are chasing around receivers for too long because we get no pass rush?  Can Vic So'oto be turned into a super linebacker when he was a marginal BYU lineman?  He, like most of our defensive personnel are low-round projects that may or may not pan out.  Yeah, OTAs and a full off-season will help but this defense basically played intact from last year.

It will help some teams more than others, IMHO the shortened offseason created much more parity last season as some teams just do a better job drafting acquiring and developing talent.

As for So'oto, I don't pretend to know what type of player he will be but I do know that he's a physical freak with a history of nagging injuries. He's the type of player that overworks himself on the power lifts and leaves himself vulnerable to injury. True he wasn't very effective at BYU but then against Clay Matthews didn't do much of anything at USC.   


   



  

GB Smacker:

Don't think franchising Finley is the answer.  This was his season to prove it... and he didn't.  With the amount of WRs the Packers have, most tight ends are going to be open over the middle.  THere is no value in franchising him and paying 14 million dollars when he hasn't shown that he can bring it on a consistent basis.
The NFL is a QB crazy league, and although Matt Flynn has only played 2 complete games over the last 2 years, he is a product of one of the most QB friendly systems in the league and WILL get interest.  I'd glady take a second round pick for him if I was TT. 

They need a stud LG and Tackle yet.  Sherrod was making improvements and Newhouse just sucks.  Wells will get paid to stay.

Please get a pass rusher.  Get rid of the 3 clowns that filled in this year and find fresh blood with promise and talent.

Hawk can go.  Watch San Fran and see how quick the LB is out in the flats and hitting someone.

Peprah can be a back up after picking up a stud CB. 

Get rid of Crappers.  D was predictable all year. 


Pathetic performance.  Rodgers looked like Favre for the first time trying to throw the damn thing too hard.

You sir are an IDIOT.  Go watcdh this team and the first round picks before you start making comments such as the entire statement above.

lmao yall are 15-1 yall are good. I think its more of your team more a dome team than a cold weather team and yall were very rusty.

GB Smacker:

Don't think franchising Finley is the answer.  This was his season to prove it... and he didn't.  With the amount of WRs the Packers have, most tight ends are going to be open over the middle.  THere is no value in franchising him and paying 14 million dollars when he hasn't shown that he can bring it on a consistent basis.
The NFL is a QB crazy league, and although Matt Flynn has only played 2 complete games over the last 2 years, he is a product of one of the most QB friendly systems in the league and WILL get interest.  I'd glady take a second round pick for him if I was TT.

The Franchise tag for Finley is not 14 Million..it would be about 5.5 Million and would be a smart thing to do.

The Franchise tag for Flynn would be the 14 Million..and why in the world would another team wish to do this? Right now..other teams can negotiate for Matt Flynn and pay him less than 14 Million and NOT give up 2 draft picks to us to get him?

IF we franchise him..he is under contract for 14 Million and another team would have to give us draft picks plus pay Flynn 14 million?

I do NOT see that happening( it might..but I just can't see it) Look at it from the other team's point of view.