howard might actually make an all-star team again

Cashman really has no choice but to defend RAJ because if there's one one GM who has been even more generous it's him. The list of wretched contracts that Cashman has coughed up just on the current roster include ARod, Soriano & Burnett...and you could easily argue more. If he condemns RAJ he condemns himself. If he makes RAJ look good he reduces the criticism on himself. It's called I've got your back, you cover me. 

HaHa no no I was just saying I have his phone number not that he was defending RAJ.  Bowa on the other hand was.

so if you actually did want to retain him - which i did - this is a GOOD THING

I like Ryan Howard, and want him on the team. I don't want to pay him an insanely idiotic contract to do that. 

 have fun rooting against howard and the phils this year

Yes, I clearly root against Howard and hate him despite the fact that earlier in this thread I praised him for his defensive improvement/conditioning and disagreed with somebody who said he wasn't a hard worker.

Have fun being clueless for another season.

 reality is that would not have happened under any circumstances even with the injury- do you know why? - cuz there would be other teams bidding him up both salary and duration - you have no idea how to calculate that other then analyze the current market - and the current market was putting him as the 3rd best available (a close 3rd) which put him at a 8/180 7/160 range - which is significany "WORSE" then what he signed with us for

The reality is that entire rambling fantasyland rant is wrong. We are talking about a guy who is not even close to Fielder or Pujols anymore, even without the injury. Nobody is giving a declining Ryan Howard 8 years, he's 5 years older than Fielder you can't simply plug in years and dollars ina  1, 2, 3 type calculation.... Well, you can but then you;re just wrong.

Ryan Howard and Prince Fielder's contracts run to the same age. Albert Pujols is the greatest hitter in a generation. Ryan Howard is a solid 1B who struggles against LHP and is average defensively. 

If Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee are the top 2 pitchers on the market and the 3rd is clearly  a step and probably 2 steps below them then he isn't going to get a contract slotted behind those 2. 

this was referring about the 5 years of his new contract - 2012 - 2016 - wow this is all so over your head

So you were happy that we locked up a guy who could have had a serious injury(and he did!) 3 years before he ever hit FA to a massive deal? Congratulations you're even dumber than E Po. 

after this brilliant exchange it is obvious why the majority of this board has given up engaging with you

That's because the majority of you front running knuckledraggers don't know anything about baseball. 

 copy and paste everything you said above

I shouldn't have to, but since you either can't read or can't understand the litter that you can read I'll keep trying to save you from looking like a moron. So far it isn;t working.  

that's cool about bowa
he's obviously another elite Phillies mind just like us

Things I agree with:

1. The Howard deal is the lesser of 3 evils...anyway you look at it 5 years for 125 is better than 9 and 10 year deals

2. Howard isn't as good as fielder or pujols at this time and wouldn't have sniffed a 9 or 10 year deal (i think he still would have gotten 5 years but not as much money...maybe 5/85 or 5/90). I think he would have got the midpoint between what Adam Dunn signed for last year at the same age and the 7 yr. 150 that Adrian Gonzalez signed for as a 27 year old. 

3. Amaro jumped the gun giving howard the 5 year extension when he still had a year and a half left on his current deal...if he stayed healthy he would have gotten a 6-7 year deal...with the injury i think he would have gotten a 4-5 year deal (said above i am leaning 5 years).

Things I disagree with:

1. Amaro took the risk to avoid a deal that went 3-5 years past his prime (not sure what you call a players prime, but 31/32 years old is about the end of his prime years)  This deal still goes at least 3 years past his prime in my opinion and probably costed about 35-40M more as opposed to 20M more if he waited till this year to sign him to a 4-5 year deal coming off the injury.

2. I am not sure why Joe Blanton is used here in terms of looking at a bad deal (especially when you were trying to argue that howard injury shouldn't be used against amaro).  He got 3yrs/24M as a 29 year old innings eater in the middle of his prime...that is pretty much market value for a guy like blanton and maybe even a tad under market value. 

Over the last 3 years similar pitchers got:  Randy Wolf 35yrs old (3yrs 29.5M - almost 10M a year) Joel Piniero 33 yrs old (2yrs 16M - 8M a year) Jason Maruis 33yrs old (2 yrs 15M - 7.5M a year) Jorge De La Rosa 29 yrs old (3yrs 32M - almost 11M a year)    Carl Pavano 36 yrs old (2yrs 16.5M - 8.25M a year)  Jake Westbrook 34 yrs old (2yrs 16.5M - 8.25M a year) 

Is it expensive for a back of the rotation stater?  probably...is it a bad deal market wise?  I don't see it as I would take blanton over any of the guys i mentioned if healthy.

3. The Larry Bowa comment really means nothing...if he said it the way you worded it that if Howard hits .270 with 30+HR and 100+ RBI's over the duration of the deal than I would be really happy and it probably is still an overpay, but definitely an acceptable one.  The problem is that it is contingent on Howard averaging those numbers.  Let's say he goes .260 with 25HR and 85-90 RBI's over that deal...now we paid 5 years and 125M to a black Adam LaRoche.  


In Summary, Amaro jumped the gun to give Howard the deal that he did...he took on a lot of risk signing him with 1.5yrs left on his current deal, and with him getting hurt it makes the deal look that much worse right now.  He took an unnecessary risk in my opinion especially when the free agent crop was pegged to have adrian gonzalez (before his extension with boston), fielder and pujols.  If Howard stayed healthy he would have saved himself some money (probably about 25M IMO)...with howard getting hurt he probably cost himself 35-40M giving him that deal.  Ultimately Howard's deal is still the lesser of 3 evils, but that doesn't mean that any of those 3 deals are good...arguing that a bad deal of 5/125 is better than a bad deal of 9/200 or 10/240 doesn't change the fact that they are still bad deals.  If Howard does what Bowa says then I'd be happy with the deal in the end...if he does what i posted than we overpaid for the black Adam Laroche.
 

i use blanton in here to emphasize i do not blindy agree with anything everything amaro does

its a shame you wreck a fairly well put post by using the word black in the last sentence...wow