Penn State Scandal's Impact

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 In Eastern PA you have Big Ben Rapelisburger

Well you lose all credibility there. Pittsburgh is in Western PA. 

 In Western PA you have JoePa, Sandusky and their lackeys

Oh boy. You need some schooling. 1. Joepa didn't rape anyone. 2. State College is in the middle of the state, east of Pittsburgh.

Glad to see what that West Virginia education is doing for you!!

 

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 You're speaking as the voice of Paterno and assuming a lot of things that he did. Why do you get to do that?

No..I'm not...I'm saying that we'll never know what he spoke about (and to who) over the past 10 years. And I'm not trying to paint him as a 'fangless figurehead'...I dont care one way or the other. But YOU are trying to paint him as the second coming. Why do YOU get to do THAT? He was a man, like many others, who had a wife, kids and a football team known throughout the world of sports. Yes...he did a lot of great things and lots of people looked up to him. And had he 'blown the whistle' to the media, they would have definitely listened. But to 'blow the whistle' on something, you should first KNOW that it actually happened. Now, unless you have something that shows that he saw something bad happen in those showers, he had no reason to alert the media.

At best, all you're telling me is Paterno followed the rules like he was a brand new coach with no pull or sway whatsoever. I cannot buy this. 

lol...no...I'm telling you that a 75 year old man heard something (something that, by his own admission, he couldnt even phathom) from one of his assistants and told the people who he thought would look into it...rules or not. You say that he had all of this pull and power. Sounds to me like you are saying that he told Shultz and Curley to bury the incident? Cause thats exactly what they did. If thats what youre suggesting, I disagree even further. 

You talk about 'if' he was wrong. He wouldn't have been. Not in '98. Not in '02. Not if he ever decide to talk about it (to the media). Going out on a limb when you know something is wrong takes courage. I personally feel Paterno had enough information in his possession to do that.  

True...But he didnt KNOW that he wouldnt have been wrong because he never actually saw anything happen. What he KNEW was that Sundusky was accused in 1998 and the DA wouldnt charge him..why?? He knew that McQueary alledgedley saw wrongdoings in the showers. What other information did he have that would be substantial enough to put himself 'out on a limb' and run to the media? I said this in an earlier post...do you know how many times people have come to him over that past 60 years with accusations that turned out to be nothing? I dont either. But I'm willing to bet that JoePa does. Why would he treat this incident any different considering that he didnt witness it?

Wait. Only youth need to know who someone is for it to matter? A 20 year old didn't watch 'Golden Girls' but knows who Betty White is. And William Shatner. And Clint Eastwood. Don Cornelius was younger than all of them. 

Do I really need to explain this? No dude..I'm not saying that today's youth needs to know who you are for your death to matter. I'm saying that EVERYONE knew who Paterno was...the young and the old...thats why his death got the media coverage that it did. White, Shatner and Eastwood have had a presence on TV and/or the big screen recently..of course young folks are going to know them. Soul Train went off the air in 2006...most folks probably didnt even know that (hell...I had to look it up) Now unless you are saying that Disco has the same following as College Football, then I really dont need to go any deeper into my explanation.

And Paterno did allow Sandusky in his locker room, didn't he?

HIS lockerroom? Its only 'his' locker room during practice, team meetings and gameday. ANYONE affiliated with the Second Mile has access to the locker rooms...like it or not, Joe Pa couldnt have stopped it.

It is not a leap at all to ask Joe Paterno to speak up about an issue which occurred on his campus. 

It IS a leap if he doesnt know for SURE that it happened. Again, you talk about what he should have done with the benefit of hind site. You point out my 'ifs' but then you throw some in...yes..I agree. IF he knew without a doubt that these events occurred, he should have said something to someone other than his boss. The problem with that is that he didnt see anything occur so why would he run to the police? Why is all the responsibility of 'blowing the whistle' being put on Paterno? Let just say that McQueary's word is the gospel...if he says he saw it, he saw it....no doubt. Why not put on the responsibility on him? How about his dad? He knew too. How about Shultz? Curley? Or dozens of others who, most likely, heard romurs that something happened?? You pin the blame on Paterno because of who he was. Part of 'who he was' is probably the reason why he didnt speak up back then. You dont run to the police because of something that someone else said.

The rest of your post, I'm not going to comment on cause its pretty much covered in what I already said and to do so would be even more repititious. I will say that I understand why you feel the way you do about Paterno and his value to the university and the entire sports nation. I absolutely refuse to find similarityies between him and Cornelius...I cant put all the moral responsibility on him, if these allogations are true, because other people knew also. I do not view him as someone who walks on water and whose direction is always taken. I view him as a college football icon, not a legal one. And I didnt say that Paterno didnt SUSPECT that Sandusky was a creep, I said that he didnt KNOW he was back then. But you cant suggest that someone be banned from the campus just because you think they are a creep. Besides, at 75 yrs old, I cant imagine he even cared about Sandusky. He, no doubt, needed all of his mental faculties focussed on the football program. Legal issues are someone elses area of expertise..not his.

Wait...I WILL comment on this....

 I'm not or will ever play the game of 'Paterno was just a powerless old man who could do nothing but report to his bosses and leave it alone.'.

I never said that he was powerless (all though reporting what he heard to his boss didnt mean squat)...I never said that he COULDNT have done anything else. All I said was , why would he? Think about it..."Hey JoePa..Sandusky just raped someone"..."Hey JoePa..Sandusky just shot some old lady"..."Hey JoePa, put down your playbook and check this out..Sandusky just robbed a liquor store."...60 years worth of 'Hey JoePa!!"...Can someone else please handle this crap???...Yes...he is the face of Penn State Football...yes..Penn State is mostly known for thier football program...which, by process of elimination, makes him the face of Penn State...THROUGH THE MEDIA....but, if he is 'the man' why wasnt he sitting in the center chair of the board members? Why wasnt he the President of the University? Why wasnt HE put in charge of the Campus Police? Why isnt his name plastered above the door way of the Science Center? The History Department? The Library....hell...the friggen Book Store?? My guess is that other folks hold honors there also. You speak of him as a man who gets what he wants..who could make the highest of Penn State officials do excatly what he says. I'm not saying that his opinions werent held in high regard, but I dont believe that he alone was the final say on everything. Besides, he could have added to his legacy by being known as the man who stopped all of these kids from being subjected to Sandusky's abuse. Why WOULDNT want to do that? Again, my guess is, if he KNEW that these things actually occurred, he would have done what he could. I refuse to believe that a man on his stature and integrity would have KNOWINGLY ALLOWED these things to continue. Say what you want about what he SHOULD have done. Again, with the benefit of hind sight, its easy to point fingers.

Steel, if your main gist is 'Joe Paterno definitely had to know a rape occurred' in order to take action you basically mean he had to see it with his own eyes. Because, according to you he could not investigate the incident without tampering and there was no need for him to talk to Sandusky personally because his 'superiors' did that already. Joe Paterno simply was supposed to tell his bosses and that's it. After doing so he had no obligation whatsoever to follow up with anyone about this.

If everyone were this passive towards child rape then there is zero surprise Sandusky was allowed to do what he did, unabated, for at least 14 years.

For the sake of completion I'll look through your paragraphs. I wrote what I did above just from gleaning.

1. Already discussed, but I find your rationale sickeningly passive. (in your opinion) Paterno only should have aggressively moved on this if he personally saw it. Hearing it second hand, apparently, isn't enough to make him do anything but tell his bosses and it definitely shouldn't be enough to suspect that Sandusky is a total creeper. Wow. If you say so, man.

2. You're arguing with yourself. Since I never said this, I won't defend it. I dont' care if Curley/Shultz covered it up. I care that nothing happened when a child got raped.

3. Because this allegation is that a child got raped. 'Nuff said, bro. He apparently had never been faced with this before since the news of hearing this was such a shock to him. You might want to treat this allegation different than any other because it is different than any other allegation he had ever faced.

4. You're missing the point and it's not worth discussing anymore. You somehow acknowledge Paterno's celebrity but think that it means nothing. Which is very perplexing.

5. I so totally disagree with you it's saddening. Your attempts to marginalize Paterno in order to absolve him ring depressingly hollow, man. The locker room was Paterno's. The Second Mile wouldn't have been there if Paterno didn't want them to be.

6. Nope, I've already said bunches that it's not just on Paterno. But the biggest name here is Paterno. Can't say it any plainer. I wish he wasn't a part of this at all. But he is. And painting him as an old man who needed all of his faculties to manage football. Oh wow. That's really bad, man. He knew Sandusky for 50 years. Now, Paterno did say he was nothing more than an acquaintance. Can't argue that, even though I don't quite believe it. But Paterno was very aware of who Sandusky was, knew of creepiness back in 1998, was reminded of it again 4 years later...but since he's an octogenarian that should be excused. He had football to worry about!

7. You can't compare any of your other examples to a child being raped. And if you want to stop something like that I would hope you'd do it because it's the right thing to do, protect children, and not because it would 'add to your legacy'. Yep, a child being raped trumps football. 100% of the time. If you're a 25 year old coach or an 85 year old coach. Every. Time. And if you hear this information you drop whatever you're doing to solve this issue. If someone asked, "Coach Paterno, why aren't you coaching football?" the answer is "Because I have strong reason to suspect that a child was raped in my locker room."

If you don't feel he has a responsibility to do that, ok. But know I forever disagree with you. And know that thankfully, a bunch of other people agree and would never act so passively (like Paterno and the whole organization did), be it in hindsight or foresight.

Because, according to you he could not investigate the incident without tampering and there was no need for him to talk to Sandusky personally because his 'superiors' did that already.

I didnt say that he couldnt investigate without tampering. I said WHY SHOULD HE?? He was told somethoing bad....so he told the people who HE THOUGHT would do something about it. What do you think his responsibilities were? THE TEAM. Sandusky didnt work for Paterno at the time...why would he talk to him? Paterno told the people who SHOULD talk to him...and they did. You can call it 'passing the buck'...I dont care. Because all you are suggesting is that Paterno should have dropped everything else he had going on in his life, grab a magnifying glass and play Sherlock Holmes...when there were SEVERAL people on campus more qualified to do that. But...in your mind, because he's 'Joe Pa', he should have taken charge of the investigation. Come on dude. This arguement is dumb.

 But...in your mind, because he's 'Joe Pa', he should have taken charge of the investigation. Come on dude. This arguement is dumb.

That's why they are trolls! These are the same people that said Paterno was a figurehead and he was senile blah blah blah.. Now they are saying that Paterno could have put on the superman cape, coached the football team, run an entire investigation, and still be home in time for morning tea! These people on this board a poster child trolls!

I wasnt even going to respond to the rest of your post, WarEagle but here goes.....again..

 You're arguing with yourself. Since I never said this, I won't defend it. I dont' care if Curley/Shultz covered it up. I care that nothing happened when a child got raped. 

Yes..what you are suggesting is that Paterno's status held alot of weight around campus. When he speaks, people listen. So...if he went to his boss and the overseer of the campus police and told them what he was told, then they should have jumped right on it and handled the investigation from beginning to end. I'm saying, apparently, thats not the case because Curley and Shultz didnt do anything about what Paterno told them. Now, for your suggestion to be true (when Paterno speaks, people listen) he HAD to have told them to bury the incident because, again, thats what they did. And I dont believe that ever happened.

 You're missing the point and it's not worth discussing anymore. You somehow acknowledge Paterno's celebrity but think that it means nothing. Which is very perplexing 

No I'm not...because you contradicted yourself. I acknowledge Paterno's status, I just dont think it means as much as you do.

The locker room was Paterno's. The Second Mile wouldn't have been there if Paterno didn't want them to be. 

I'm not marginalizing anything. I'm just not going to blow things out of proportion either. I understand that YOU think Paterno can ban people from the locker room. Please show me something that suggests you are right. Because NOWHERE else at any college can a coach ban anyone from using the UNIVERSITY FACILITIES. Sandusky was given a parking pass and other amenities as part of his retirement package in 1999, Only the university president could have banned him from the weight room, locker room or any other facility. Paterno couldnt ban anyone. He can SUGGEST it...thats it. 

 Nope, I've already said bunches that it's not just on Paterno. But the biggest name here is Paterno. Can't say it any plainer.  

I'm not saying that he's not the biggest name here...I agree. Does that mean that he is the most accountable? I mean, if he were laying on his deathbed when McQueary told him what he saw, do the fingers still point to Paterno for not doing more? MCQUEARY should have immediately notified the police...period. Everyone else who found out about it afterwards is incidental. Some told who they thought would handle the investigation...some who knew probably already thought it was being handled. Is every student who heard the rumor held accountable for NOT following up on it? Are you responsible if you report a crime to the police and they dont do anything about it? Are you supposed to follow up on it? There is a reporting procedure at Penn State. Paterno did what he was supposed to do. Even the DA said that. Morally, and in hind site, there was MUCH more that alot of people could have done.

You can't compare any of your other examples to a child being raped. And if you want to stop something like that I would hope you'd do it because it's the right thing to do, protect children, and not because it would 'add to your legacy'. Yep, a child being raped trumps football. 100% of the time. If you're a 25 year old coach or an 85 year old coach. Every. Time. And if you hear this information you drop whatever you're doing to solve this issue. If someone asked, "Coach Paterno, why aren't you coaching football?" the answer is "Because I have strong reason to suspect that a child was raped in my locker room." 

Wait...you DO understand that no rape has been proven yet....dont you? Of course the welfare of a child is more important than football. I'm not suggesting that it isnt. How dumb is that?? I'm saying that if you hear something like that, you TELL SOMEONE..the people who YOU THINK will handle the investigation. Someone with more experience in these matters who can handle it properly and make sure that it is followed through till the end. Paterno, by everyone elses legal opinion, DID THAT. By doing so, they investigate..and if the allegations proove to be false, its handled internally and keeps Penn State out of the national media spotlight over something that isnt even true..cause we all know the affects of the 'court of public opinion'..."if your accused, you're guilty...period". If you want proof of that comment, go back and read through this thread....but, if it turns out to be true, then the DA is notified and they take over. Its a win, win. I dont believe its right put the all resposibility on Paterno. He did exactly what he was supposed to do from a man in his position AT THE TIME. I dont believe that Paterno acted passively about this. The people who he informed...the ones he was SUPPOSED to inform, did nothing. 

50 counts of felony child rape over 20 years all on Joes watch.  Leadership is taking ownership of something and fixing it! 

Enjoy joe's funeral dvd, will be the only highlights for PSU for the next 10 yrs!

I for one think it's sad that Penn State will become forgotten in the college football landscape.


People will say they used to be great. Like model T's used to be great cars.  Biplanes used to be great plains.


They will become like the nearby Amish or Quakers.


The world will pass them by. 

Hopon.   Agreed!   PSU is thing of the past, same # conf championships as NWestern since 94.  They had to beg their like 20th choice HC candidate to take the job.  Alumni in NFL have turned their back on PSU.  And death penalty we all know is on the way.

The great thing here is that people will only take shots at the football program.  Bucks joking about PSU and Northwestern having same # of conference championships, when both schools graduate more than twice as many football players as Ohio St.  Of course football isn't bout graduating at Ohio St its about getting to the NFL or at least getting a new car for free if you don't make the NFL.
Also, while people want to rag on the FB program, the overall sports programs at PSU tower over the other Big Ten Schools with condrence and national championships.  Hell, all of the people that talk of how Joe ran the university.  He wasn't even the most successful coach at the university in wins or national championships.

  

the president, head coach, and AD all knew about a felony and did NOTHING.

DEATH penalty to psu

The Penn State people have changed my mind.  They are very persuasive.  It's all good.


I don't want any trouble. 


Go Penn State! 

Lets see.....

-Merchandise sales down 50%
-Its top 5 recruits flipped
-It has a HC w zero HC experience at any level (can you imagine that?, never would have thought possible)
-Many multi million $ lawsuits on the way for next 10 years
-Death Panalty on the way from NCAA and who konws what B10 will do
-JokePa fired on the Spot by his employers
-B10 cellar dwellars for next 10 years

....and they still think JokePa did the right thing.  

Go figure,  Imagine how bad things would be fore PSU if JokePa according to them did the wrong thing.

50 counts of felony child rape over 20 years all on Joes watch.


Stop exagerrating

It was only 13 years     

Penn State Scandal's Impact

Score: 80 February 13, 2012 5:12 pm Lets see.....

-Merchandise sales down 50%
-Its top 5 recruits flipped
-It has a HC w zero HC experience at any level (can you imagine that?, never would have thought possible)
-Many multi million $ lawsuits on the way for next 10 years
-Death Panalty on the way from NCAA and who konws what B10 will do
-JokePa fired on the Spot by his employers
-B10 cellar dwellars for next 10 years

....and they still think JokePa did the right thing.  

Go figure,  Imagine how bad things would be fore PSU if JokePa according to them did the wrong thing.


Still advertising your ignorance cassie?

I for one think it's sad that Penn State will become forgotten in the college football landscape.
You are right on the money.  There 2013 recruiting class has plummeted to #12 in the country due to the scandal. How will they ever have a chance?

By the way USC is ranked #36.

http://247sports.com/Team/Ranking

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