Injuries Killing us

Well guys its started to look bad.  We are so banged up. It might be time to go get Howard.  This team needs something to happen.  They look slow and u can notice people are hurting.

Lets give a round of applause to Thibs for Playing Deng 42 minutes a game all of last season and into this, condensed season. Bravo. Whats the excuse this time?

Lets also blame Thibs for turning this franchise around by teaching a young kid on how to play basketball properly.  Thibs is not the reason why Deng got slapped in the wrist and torn ligaments in his non-shooting hand.  Do you really think that the 42 minutes a game last year wore down the ligaments in his hand that made it easier for him to get injured?  Everyone has their own opinion so I am not going to say you are wrong but in my eyes it is the perfect example of Chicago fans having to put extra attention to something that does not need it. 

Career MPG Played:

Lebron - 40
Wade - 37
Garnett - 36
Ray Allen - 37
Howard - 36
Bryant - 36
Luol Deng - 35

So all those guys except Howard have been in the league longer than Deng and have averaged more minutes than him for more years. 

Let's be realistic about Luol Deng for a second, he is not the players above. Before this season he averaged 69 games played a season for his career.  That is about 84% of the season played.  He has only played over 80 games 2 twice in those 7 years. He has played 63 or under 4 times.

I think we should look at Deng for who he is and not compare him to all-time great players.  Oh, and Ray Allen and Dwayne Wade have missed a bunch of games in their career too. 

Richard Hamilton has had a slew of injuries the last few years and it was one of the primary reasons I questioned the signing before it happened.  I still think it was a terrible idea to throw the entire mid-level at him. 

Additionally, Hamilton's minutes have been about as mismanaged as they could have been.  Rip gets a leg injury, comes back and the he plays 42 and then 38 minutes.  Goes down again.  Misses a day. The are up against the Heat and he goes back out there.  36 and a half minutes and now is back down again for who knows how long.

Look at the PG situation.  C.J. Watson gets a freak injury, those things happen.  He plays Derrick Rose 42 minutes in the second game of a back to back and against the Timberwolves when the Bulls win by 11.  Rose goes down.  So what does he do, plays John Lucas 45 and a half minutes. Lucas Tweeks a muscle in his leg so now Rose has to com back and play.  Rose plays 39 then 41 minutes in a back to back and re-aggravates his toe. Now they have to bring Watson back early from his injury.

I have said it before. You either play them now or you play them later.  If you try and play guys 38+ minutes night after night they will break down.  The Back will have to come in and he will play 38 minutes night in night out till he breaks down.

Injuries are more likely to happen when guys are tired and worn down.  They are more likely to happen with you play a grinding style of basketball.  They are more likely to happen when players play long blocks of minutes straight.

Tibs coaches and empowers all of these.  Even When Deng played 32 minutes is was ussually 32 of the first 36 and then he would sit most of the 4th in a blow out.  Getting one 3 minute break in the first 36 minutes is not the same as getting two 8 minute breaks in the first 48.  He plays his players in way to long of stretches. 

I know people are going to defend it. That is cool.  If the Bulls are all banged up going into the playoffs again this season there is no chance at a title. 

I am not a fan that blows tiny and random insignificant things out of proportion and gives them extra attention.

Im not wrong, and I dont think its even a matter of opinion. You cannot grind players to the incredible extent that Thibs does and not expect injuries. Im not saying Thibs is a bad coach, Im saying he is historically horrific at managing player minutes.  The NBA is a tough sport. You cannot play guys 42 minutes a game, and if you do, you especially cant incoherently spread the minutes of rest so that a guy his only 8 minutes of rest in one chunk. Thibs does both of these things.


Did the minutes Deng played last year have a direct impact on his injury this year? No. But they give him increasing oppourtunity to get injured. That kind of consistant wear and tear is going to lead to a significan injury at some point 100% of the time. 

If I did not observe the horrible excuse for minute distribution first hand, I would not believe it when I was told it. You have the deepest team in the league. Its inexcusable. Whats baffling is how easy it is to correct. 

Let's be realistic about Luol Deng for a second, he is not the players above. Before this season he averaged 69 games played a season for his career.  That is about 84% of the season played.  He has only played over 80 games 2 twice in those 7 years. He has played 63 or under 4 times.

I am not saying that Deng is even close to being as good as those players in my comments.  What I am saying is that if those players can play those many minutes and have success with playing, then why can't Deng.  Just because Deng is not as good as those players listed above does not mean he should be playing less minutes than them.  These guys are athletes and their bodies have been made to take this abuse and that is why they do what they do.

I think we should look at Deng for who he is and not compare him to all-time great players.  Oh, and Ray Allen and Dwayne Wade have missed a bunch of games in their career too. 

It doesn't matter how many games Ray Allen and Dwayne Wade have missed, I basically took their minute totals in their whole career and divided them into how many games they have played.  I did not take in account how many games they have missed because that average tells you about how minutes they have played in each game throughout their career.  All of the guys that i have mentioned have been in the league longer than Deng except Dwight Howard so the wear and tear on their bodies are much more.

Go Bears.

Im not wrong, and I dont think its even a matter of opinion.

Who says your right?  How do other coaches play their superstars any different?  How is it not an opinion?  That sentence in a whole is incorrect. 

Did the minutes Deng played last year have a direct impact on his injury this year? No. But they give him increasing oppourtunity to get injured. That kind of consistant wear and tear is going to lead to a significan injury at some point 100% of the time. 

Neither Deng nor Rose's injury have a direct effect from wear and tear at all.  Rose stubbed his toe and Deng got slapped in the wrist.  Those two injuries happen in basketball no matter how many minutes you play.  Until you pull a hamstring, tear muscles, pull a groing, or any injury similar to those then I will never agree with you.

The longer you are on the court in any given game, the more tired you get. Agreed?

The more tired you get, the more susceptible you become to injuries. Towards the end of games, players are tired. When tired, a player's fundamentals start to decline. They get more sloppy in ever aspect of the game, giving themselves a higher chance of coming down on an ankle wrong, jamming a finger, the little things that can lead to missing a lot of time. How many times have we seen Rose get injured in the 4th quarter of a game? Lots. When you couple this with the condensed scheduel, its all magnified.

This is the truth. This happens. You can chose to accept it or deny it if you like, but its the truth.  

More minutes also leads to more opportunities to get injured, and thats just unarguable statistics.

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As far as the other stars. In Deng's case, no star gets the gruel he does. Under Thibs he is averaging crazy minutes. Not only that, but his minutes are far more condensed then I have ever seen. Its not a shock to see Deng in for 20 straight minutes. Thats pure idiocy. The Bulls also play a fundamentally grueling game, with their emphasis on grit and defense instead of finese.

Neither Deng nor Rose's injury have a direct effect from wear and tear at all.  Rose stubbed his toe and Deng got slapped in the wrist.  Those two injuries happen in basketball no matter how many minutes you play.  Until you pull a hamstring, tear muscles, pull a groing, or any injury similar to those then I will never agree with you.

I am sorry that is not really true.  The more tired you are the more likely you are to be twisted, squeezed, bent, or forced into an uncomfortable position when you fall, or someone bangs into a limb.   It is much easier to hold the weight of compression off a joint when you are fresh.

Rose injury was also exasperated by the minuted he played the next game.

Go bears: I have no idea of what 42 min of playing time has anything to do with this.  Deng injury could of happen with him playing 2min.  Nice try but wrong again. 


Thibs has to play his players because everyone is hurt.  U do know Deng likes playing alot of Min.  He has said many times.    

wow if u guys think these injuries are due to playing time then u guys have no clue.  Its the beginning of the year.  No one should be feeling tired.  Does Thibs play his many guys too much yes but he kind of has to.  Rose had to play because CJ was out for awhile so we really didnt have a back up.  Then Rip has been hurt so Brewer has been playing alot of 2 guard so Deng has no back up. 

also more Min = to more wins.  i rather have that. Injuries are part of the game.  It can happen in a game or at practice.

Great Post Wsox.  All those players play all the time.  Deng is one of our better players so he needs to be out there.  Also he is one of the better defensive players in the game so he has to be out there in the 4th.

Fact is they need Deng back.  That is due to a talent drop off.  That is why he gets so many minuets.  Because he is a good all around player.  

We are just seeing that he is probley the 1 guy out of the starting 5 that they are just not the same team with out.

Boozer..Taj holds his own.
Rose...CJ and the other guy worked ok in the same run system.  I wouldn't go long term here.
Noah...Asik still can rebound and block.  He would just be slower running the floor and slow the O down some vs Noah.
Rip...we have delt with out him.

Deng because of his over all play is a top 10 and I could argue top 5 talent at the 3 now.  He just doesn't do 1 thing elete level to get noticed. But he has the most impact on this team as we are seeing due to no one can come in a do what he does every day.

wow if u guys think these injuries are due to playing time then u guys have no clue

Sigh... If you want to believe what is false, all the power to you. Im done here. You can fully expect to hear me angst about it in some thread in the future though...

Butler needs to get more minutes at expense of both Korver and Deng 42 mpg, he's for real.

Noah and Booz value vs. $$$ they get makes me sick and I hate Pax & Gar (2 incompetent fools IMO) because of those deals that will kill Bulls chances to "beat the Heat" for next 3-5 years.


Btw. I would like to see this kind of rotation for Bulls (when everyone gets back):

PG - Rose (36), Watson (12)
SG - Hamilton (24), Brewer (24)
SF - Deng (36), Butler (12)
PF - Taj (24), Boozer (24)
C  - Noah (30), Asik (12)

Btw. 2 things I hate to see...

Rose settling for those low percentage 20 footers and 3pt shots instead of driving to the rim or making plays for his teammates and Boozer playing any kind of defense, he's absolutely pathetic.

The only case I have to all this injury talk is I don't know how you expect to win with Deng/Rose not playing 40 minutes like every other superstar does in the league.  If all of a sudden superstars league-wide were playing 32 minutes a game then Deng/Rose can play that amount, but until then they will continue to play 36-40.  

In the playoffs, no **** sherlock, of course you keep your best players out there to get the win. But this is the regular season, one in which the Bulls have absolutely nothing to prove, and one that is condensed. Bulls also have the most depth in the league. You do the friggen math.

Thibs is clueless when it comes to managing the minutes of his players.  It's not necessarily the number of minutes that is of primary concern.  If every game was ultra competitive and went right down to the wire I would have less of a problem with the minutes.  However, we've been involved in quite a few blowouts and our starters were out there deep into the 4th quarter.  That is asinine.  We also need to get those deep bench guys some actual game minutes as well. 


I also have to agree with Go Bears about fatigue and the increasing probability of injury that is a direct result.   That doesn't even begin to cover the broad spectrum of overuse injuries that can pop up at any time such as tendonitis, bursitis, etc.  While certainly not as concerning as a torn ACL, these injuries have shelved thousands of athletes for significant amounts of time.  

Thibs needs to take his foot off the gas before the needle says empty.  


     

I just want to point out that Rose is only 9th in the league in min played per game.  Even Kobe plays more min per game and he is like 10 years older then Rose.  I will give you Deng. He is #2 on the list but the truth is we really dont have a back up for Deng.  With Rip out Brewer is playing alot of 2 Guard.  Kevin Love is #1 on the list and he is about the same age as Rose.  If anything Rose should be playing more.  So no excuses with Rose playing too many Min.