the Dwayne Bowe debate

ok, I am tired of arguing with people on a bunch of threads here about Dwayne Bowe, so lets start fresh.

before we argue should they/shouldn't they sign him.  tell me simply what you think his expected annual performance to be and what you think his contract will be.  then simply say sign him don't sign him and no need to argue or call names.

here is what i see

1,000-1,100 yds
5 TDs

a contract in the neighborhood of 5 years $50M of which $8M is a signing bonus

don't sign him

I just mentioned on another post when it comes to Bowe you should not only consider his QB situation he was delt but the amount of double teams he faced every game.  Who else besides Bowe was a threat for KC? Steve Breaston??!??! come on, Bowe is and was the only playmaker they have on that team (aside from Jammal Charles, but he was out all year).  So for Bowe to be putting up the numbers he puts up as the only player worth a damn on their offense is pretty impressive to me.

Maybe all the big numbers receivers put up this year has skewed your view on the situation and only a 1,500yd 10+ td player is worthy.  Put Bowe on any of the high powered teams (Pats, Packers, Saints) and he would put up 1,500 yd and easily 10+td seasons.

Dwayne Bowe would easily be the best receiver on this team. Is he elite level like a Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald? No but those 3 are the best in the league.

I do put him in that next group of big time receivers, he's a big body who has put up quality numbers with horrible to average QBs.

I would want him on the team.

As far as compensation goes, I don't know what the asking price for a receiver is right now.

But at 27 I would give him a 4 or 5 year deal at about 6 or 7 million a year. Seems to be more than fair but like I said I don't recall how much the latest top receivers have gotten.

i would want him here, but i dont see him here, i cant see the Chiefs letting him go for free.

Put Bowe on any of the high powered teams (Pats, Packers, Saints) and he would put up 1,500 yd and easily 10+td seasons.

no he wouldn't those teams spread the ball around

and why was this concept so hard?  what stats do you expect and what contract do you expect?

But at 27 I would give him a 4 or 5 year deal at about 6 or 7 million a year. Seems to be more than fair but like I said I don't recall how much the latest top receivers have gotten.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000
d5d8247df3a/article/franchisetag-va
lues-will-be-down-across-the-board-
in-2012

the franchise tag is $9.4M for WRs, so I think my guess of an asking price of about $10M/year is right on the money

Dwayne Bowe would easily be the best receiver on this team

most talented or best performing?

i agree he is more talented than Santana Moss, but their average numbers are similar

ok, I am tired of arguing with people on a bunch of threads here about Dwayne Bowe, so lets start fresh.

No dude.  You already lost.

Dwayne Bowe is a very good young WR. He has been consistently hurt by the idiot who used to run the team and the crappy QB's he's had to play with. Haley was a moron who set players for not agreeing with him or just because he thought he was a God. Bowe was hurt by that every  year.

If he were to come to the Redskins, he could be a very good WR and easily our #1 WR. However, if we don't get him a much better QB to throw him the ball, and some other weapons to take the pressure off of him, he won't do any better than he did in KC.

I wouldn't have a problem with them giving him a decent contract for 3-5 years. I wouldn't break the bank for him, but he good enough that I'd be happy to have him.

So year, sign him at the right price, but make sure you get us a much better QB or he'll be wasted here.

most talented or best performing?

i agree he is more talented than Santana Moss, but their average numbers are similar

Both

Bowe will get 5 years and 50 from somebody and probably more. My guess is the signing bonus portion will be at least double that and probably 20M. I could easily see him at around 1200yds and 10 td. In addition he would draw coverage and make Hankerson and Moss that much more effective. With him, Moss, Hankerson and Gaffney we seriously could have one of the top 5 WR corps in the league. As Wolff continues at nauseum to tell us even when the thread is for something else, Our QB situation is no better than KC's so that obviously needs to be addressed and I am sure it will be.

That is the other thing that getting Bowe does for you. It relieves you of having to draft a WR at all, and either use that pick toward aquiring your QB or draft another position of need where you might have otherwise used it on a WR.

LOL got up this morning and read my post from last night. Didn't really mean to single you out Wolffy. EVERYONE including every professional prognosticator, announcer, and paperboy that talks about us is talking about our QB situation "at nauseum". I am looking for something else to talk about but really until FA starts it is just killing time.

Until we find out from Bruce Allen what direction the team is going to go in this year, we really don't know what to start hoping for. If we find out the youth movement continues then it could be a couple more years before they are all here and used to playing together. If we think we can win now, then we are more active in FA. We can't be in much better cap position than we are right now being approxomately 57M under. We are obligated by the CBA to spend at least 31 of that. A lot of that may got to resign our current players, but unless it is a one or two year deal, the first couple years of those deals are usually pretty low cost against the cap. Of course we resign Fletcher if possible and Lichtensteiger. Landry is trickier. unfortunately even if you make it encentive based, which he seems open to, if the incentives are likely to be met they still count against the cap, and a one year deal for a high priced player is bad for the cap anyway. 

Though it would seem there is no reason to not be active in FA, if the organization feels they are not ready to challenge for a title, it makes little sense to overspend now. There are great players and good deals at most positions available every year. If you go the youth movement way and continue to replace older positions with high draft picks, then for several years you can maintain your advantage over the cap so when you are ready you can move on it.

My position is that you always have to be poised to get the QB you think can win a championship unless you already have one playing and one sitting. Then you have to protect your investment with OL. Everything else on offense will take care of itself. If the QB happens to not be available one year, then you get OL so you are ready when that guy comes along, or your OK QB has a career year. If you think you have championship starting OL, then you make sure you have a few OL that can play multiple positions for a month without getting your QB killed. My feeling is that we have one championship OT that is playing on the wrong side, and a G and C that are good enough for one of them to be playing if the rest of the line was good. The rest are, or should be backups.

In my opinion Lichtensteiger is not a good center. He is a journeyman, quality backup that can play 3 positions on the line, and he is a UFA. Chester falls in the same catagory except he is only a backup at two. Either one could play full time, but not both on a good OL. We have for so long seen mediocre line play that we no longer recognize it. Brown needs to go and by halfway through the year he will probably be hurt anyway. I am not ready to praise or give up on Montgomery. The guy is a football player flat out, but he may too be in the quality backup situation.

Sorry to the thread starter for getting so far off point, but my last discussion is this. Every time we have been in this position in Dan Snyders time we have splurged all our cap room on one or two guys. Sometimes it works, and most times it doesn't, or at least not as well as if we hade not gotten that one guy, and instead completely replaced whichever line needed it most. For the price of any of the high priced FA we have seen come here, we could have had at least 3 of the best OL FA of that off season. I would probably try to get one of the big fast WR whether or not you think they are game changing because they make the opposing defense have to respect the pass more, opening up the stretch and slash running game, and then I would go after the best C, G, and LT out there. And then depending on their age I would draft one in around the 3rd round.

At that point I turn my attention to the secondary and if I have the room I get Finnegan or one of the guys from the Giants. In the draft if I can get one of the two QB's by swapping first round picks and giving up players and maybe a 2nd or 3rd next year, then I do it, but I don't sacrifice high picks this year. Since that probably doesn't happen I contract every QB guru I can find, active or in retirement, college or pro, to scout every QB in this draft to find two that several agree can play in this league and run this offense, and I draft at least two of them, and sign a couple more that don't get drafted. The guy that starts this season at QB matters not unless it is RGIII or Luck from day one, so if it's Grossman or Orton, or Flynn I don't really care. If we do all the rest, it won't be Flynn. I don' think he breaks the bank as some do, but he also would be high enough that he impacts the other moves. If you strengthen the line enough and get another receiver, get Cooley and Druggy back at TE, keep our three young RB/FB healthy and fresh, then you can get by with almost any veteran QB for awhile. Hopefully the guru's can get one of the drafted QB's ready by the middle of the year and you spend the rest of 2012 playing them to get him or them ready for a real QB war in 2013 training camp, and the best guy plays. Next year unless both young guys works out, You draft another QB, and every year in the top 3 rounds until you find your two QB's.

Again I am sorry Sampson, I just got on a roll. This is probably best suited for one of thsoe other threads you were trying to get away from. I did answer the question though. LOL

One other thing on point with the Bowe thing. I don't care if it is Bowe or not. I think any of the top five or seven FA WR out there could put up similar numbers as our #1 guy or our playmaking WR. I think that if he could catch over his shoulder and was 4" taller that Anthony Armstrong could do the same thing. Santana Moss has done the same thing in the past when there were even average options on the field with he and Colley, and Davis was on his way to doing it himself from the TE position last year. There is no reason to think that a Top or even high middle/top receiver added to this mix would not be able to do the same thing.

I simply prefer that it be a big target because whether it's Grossman or a rookie, the taller the better chance of him getting or knocking down the sailed pass, or the one thrown up for grabs, and the bigger receiver has a better chance to block out the route jumping safeties the league is getting more and more of. I also want a guy that is at least not a known cancer or quitter, so that leaves out both Jacksons.

More on WR.

I like Jabar Gaffney because he is where his is supposed to be most of the time, and has good hands. The QB needs to know that somebody is running the right route. But make no mistake about it. Gaffney had a big year for one reason and one reason only. Grossman likes him. He helped Grossman to look good in college, they have an on ond off field repoir. There is nothing wrong with this except he looks for Gaffney either first or second on every play. We often ignored the RB who lays a good block and then is wide open for a screen because Grossman was already dialed in on Gaffney. If we have another QB and a better WR, Gaffney goes back to 45 catches and 450 yards with 3 TD. And there is nothing wrong with that as a #3 or 4 receiver. But let's not think he had some kind of breakout year that he improves on next year. He was Grossman's safety valve because he had no Cooley, and Druggy was often too far down field to be one, and for some reason he didn't look for the screen unless it was the primary call.

I also disagree that he would do the same as KC if we don't get a much better QB. Believe it or not, we would have much better complimentary WR, which means they could not key as heavily on him as they can now in KC. Even with our QB's th WR sould and will get their numbers. Even Grossman in a full year is going to throw for 4000 yards or in the vicinity so the WR will do well. The problem is that you can complete 5 passes for 65 yards every drive and your WR goes to the pro bowl, but if you throw an interception or fumble on the 6th play then you still lose.

Let's be clear. I am not advocating keeping Rex Grossman. I am just saying he can get his receivers the ball, so you should expect better performance than what anyone can do at KC right now, or Buffalo or any of the other places with worse QB's or less options at receiver. Remember how well everyone did in KC when Gonzalez was the WR with a TE number. A quality alternative catching the ball makes everyone look better, no matter who the QB as long as he is capable of looking for more than one or two on a play.

I'm torn.  He doesn't have the character of an Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, or Larry Fitzgerald but does have the size and athleticism to be that type of receiver.  I worry a big time contract would not yield the production.  He could easily get overweight and has a history of being a diva receiver.

Bowe will get 5 years and 50 from somebody and probably more

.

I could easily see him at around 1200yds and 10 td.

At the production pay the man

now the question is, why do you think he will double his typical TD numbers

and if you are going to throw out the rationale that we will have a new QB, tell me who you think that is, because unless we trade up for RG III I see the Redskins holding the bag QB wise

the 5 talked about names I see are:
Peyton Manning - will not want to play against his younger brother twice a year and won't pick a losing team
RG III  - Browns will beat us to
Matt Flynn - will join his OC in Miami
Kyle Orton - maybe, but I could see him staying in KC or going to the Seahawks 49ers or Cardinals

 

I worry a big time contract would not yield the production.  He could easily get overweight and has a history of being a diva receiver.

That's definitely something to worry about IBleed. We've all seen how money can make a player show his true colors. Would the money push Bowe to be even better or would he figure he's got his millions, why work so hard.

This is why I think that ALL NFL contracts should be incentive based. Make these lazy assed players EARN the money they want to be paid. Just because you had a good year last year doesn't mean you deserve a top contract. After all, that was last year. Give them incentives to reach and when they do, pay them. It's stupid to give them tons of money for what they did last year or what they "might" do this year.

If I had my druthers, I'd rather we spend the money on Vincent Jackson or even better, Colston. Sure Colston does get hurt on occasion, but you know he's going to play hard every play he's on the field.

Anyway, for the right price, I'm okay with Bowe, but if he wants a ton of money, let someone else take that chance on him.

Don't they sort of do that by making the contracts non guaranteed? In theory if you don't perform you get cut and the only part that is for sure is the bonus, which is essentially an auction price to sign the guy. I do agree about incentive rich contracts, but it may make owners and coaches alter their game plan so certain guys don't meet their incentives? O sit them at the end to "rest them" when they are a few 100 yards away from a bigger bonus? Nah that would nevr happen. LOL

Dwayne Bowe would be a great addition to the Skins because we a #1 WR with speed but it is going to cost alot of $$$.  We have a decent corp of WR's but most are getting up their in years and the young WR's are unproven.  Hopefully, Hankerson and Paul step up this year and we have a great yound TE in Fred Davis.  The most important pick-up for the Skins is at QB.....if we get Peyton and he is healthy, we are automatic play-off contenders!  He is a great player and makes everyone around him better!  I'm tired of watching Rex Grossman throw ints and fumble away games!