Paul Millsap: I'll say it again.........

He's a Top 10 PF in the league and maybe a Top 5 PF by next year. Everyone called me crazy in the off-season threads for saying Millsap would be this good, but each game he plays he is proving me more and more right. People thought I was crazy for saying he's better than Carlos Boozer, but that's looking more and more spot on as each game is played. Paul Millsap started out the season almost splitting minutes exactly with Derrick Favors, but since he's started to get the majority of the minutes at PF, he's exploded into the player I've always said he's capable of being. He's been averaging nearly 20 ppg and 10 rpg over his last 13 games (19.7 ppg  10.6 rpg). Here is Millsap's numbers on the year: 

Millsap: 16.8 ppg (13.2 shots/game) 52.6% FG  78.9% FT  9.5 rpg (3.3 offensive) 1.9 apg  1.5 TO/game  1.5 spg  31.3 min/game


The most impressive thing is that he's doing this while sharing time and touches with 3 other big men in Al Jefferson, Derrick Favors, and Enes Kanter. Big Al is getting 33 min./game and taking 16.6 shots/game, and Favors is getting 20.8 min./game and taking 6.3 shots/game (Kanter gets 14.5 min./game and taking 4.1 shots/game). When you look at all the other top PFs in the game, they don't have share as much as Millsap has had to with their big men. For example: 

Dirk Nowitzki shares with Brendan Haywood and Lamar Odom. Haywood takes nothing away from Dirk on offense and Odom has had a down year where he's not doing a ton to take away from Dirk either. 

Kevin Love shares with Darko Milicic and Derrick Williams. Milic does very little outside of playing defense and Williams hasn't lived up to his hype yet. 

Blake Griffin shares with DeAndre Jordan and Reggie Evans. Jordan isn't usually an offensive threat and Evans is only playing 15 minutes a game this year

LaMarcus Aldridge shares with Marcus Camby and Kurt Thomas. Camby might be the reason he doesn't average alot of rebounds, but neither takes away offense from Aldridge.

Chris Bosh shares with Joel Anthony and Udonis Haslem. Rebounds? Maybe, but they do nothing else to take away from Bosh.

Amar'e Stoudemire shares with Tyson Chandler and that's pretty much it. 

Carlos Boozer shares with Joakim Noah and Taj Gibson. Noah has had a down year, and Gibson is not doing nearly as well as he's down in previous years.


All of these top PFs, other than Dirk and Boozer, are getting alot more minutes and taking alot more shots per game/getting alot more overall touches. 

Dirk Nowitzki - 31.8 min./game 14.1 shots/game (19.5 ppg 6.9 rpg - Per 36 min.)
Kevin Love - 39 min./game 17.8 shots/game (22.9 ppg 12.5 rpg - Per 36 min.)
Blake Griffin - 36 min./game 16.5 shots/game (21.1 ppg 10.7 rpg - Per 36 min.)
LaMarcus Aldridge - 36.4 min./game 18.3 shots/game (22.8 ppg 8.6 rpg - Per 36 min.)
Chris Bosh - 36.2 min./game 14.8 shots/game (19.9 ppg 7.7 rpg - Per 36 min.)
Amar'e Stoudemire - 34.4 min./game 15.5 shots/game (19.1 ppg 8.5 rpg - Per 36 min.)
Carlos Boozer - 30.4 min./game  12.7 shots/game  (17.4 ppg 10.1 rpg - Per 36 min.)

Millsap averages 19.4 ppg and 10.9 rpg per 36 minutes, and as you can see, that's comparable with most of these guys (with Love the only one standing way out on stats). I don't think anyone can doubt anymore that Millsap is the real deal and is a Top 10 PF in the NBA. If he were the go-to guy like alot of these PFs, he could very well be putting up 20 and 10 + numbers and be getting alot more credit. I also think it's hilarious that I heard some people before the season saying Derrick Favors is a better big man and should start over Millsap. Not only was that laughable, but has looked like a very foolish statement to this point.

People seem to forget Millsap is only 26 years old and just in his 2nd year as starter for the Jazz. He could very well get even better than this and should be able to develop into the 20 ppg and 10 rpg player I said he was capable of way back in his 3rd year in the league.

As of right now you got to say Paul Millsap is playing like a top 5 PF. After Love, Aldridge, and Griffin who is playing better? Maybe Bosh?

1. Kevin Love
2. LaMarcus Aldridge
3. Blake Griffin
4. Chris Bosh
5. Paul Millsap

That's my top 5 right now, Dirk Nowitzki will probably get back up there but Pau Gasol and Amare Stoudemire are on the decline and they might be victims of the teams they play on. Bottom line Millsap is a top 10 PF and he deserves some credit for how well he's been playing.

Just to get a rise of out of some people, I'd like to post some quotes from the thread where everyone thought I was crazy predicting Paul Millsap would be a Top 10 PF: 

Zagstuh:

"Milsap is a matchup guy. When he has the right matchup he does well but often disappears. He is the ideal forward coming off your bench but you are needing to upgrade if he is your starter."

"As far as Paul Millsap as a part of this discussion he is maybe a top 15 PF but I am even thinking he is probably not even quite that. He is one of those guys that you don't really even have to pay attention to him too much and he will score 15-20 points but is not going to kill your team with his scoring. Beyond that he really does not do anything else that is all that exceptional either. He is a below average starter to me."

WCF:

"No. Just no.

Im not even sure I'd take him over Duncan. And definitely not KG or Boozer."

Skins:

"What is so good about Millsap. He is an decent scorer, decent defender, and a poor rebounder. No part of his game says top 10 PF to me. Solid player? Yes. What makes him about Smith for instance? Slighlty better scorer, worse rebounder, worse defender. That slight bit of efficiency makes him better? I just don't see it."

Hurricane:

"12) Paul Milsap"

ChiTownCliff:

"I think Milsap is a solid player, but I would rather have rebounds and defense from a player like Taj Gibson or Ibaka then a PF that is a streaky scorer and a below average defender and rebounder. I would put Milsap somewhere in the 15 range if I were to rank him."

" It seems clear to me that he is simply not a very effective rebounder. He can score, I will give him that, but he offers little to the table. What Milsap has going fo him is that he can hit the 3-ball but that also means he is not in the paint grabbing boards."

So do you anyone of you like to apologize for those comments and admit I was right? 

WOW! you guys are crazy! Seriously you'd rather have Gibson and Ibaka? A poor rebounder? Not top 10? WOW!

 Among PFs Paul Millsap is 5th in rpg, only Love, Griffin, P. Gasol, and Kris Humphries are ahead of him and he plays signifcantly less minutes then all four of them.

Okay who are your top 10 in NBA Efficiency?

1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Derrick Rose
6. Kevin Love
7. Paul Millsap
8. Dwight Howard
9. LaMarcus Aldridge
10. Greg Monroe

There you go, people need to stop being foolish, Millsap is among the better PFs in the NBA.

He has been the fourth best PF so far this year IMO. Behind Love,Aldridge and Monroe. He is a top 10 PF but top 5 might be a stretch as players like Dirk,Griffin,Gasol, and Bosh will probably still be better over the long run of the season.

Milsap is a horrific defender.

He is too slow to defend quick guys.  He is too short to defend the post.  A cardboard cut-out is more valuable on defense.

There is no question whatsoever he is amongst the worst defender at his position.

The only player worse at defense overall is Al Jefferson sitting in the lane beside him.
Favors is semi-decent, but he has to clean up the mistakes of Milsap and Jefferson.

I don't get all these "NO Defense whatsoever" power forwards of today.

Love, Griffin, and Milsap are beyond putrid at defense.

Aldridge is alright.  He is average.

Timmy (even at age 36) is still 10 times the defender of any of them.

Unless Milsap scores 25+ and averages 14+ rebounds, he is not worth the useless defense.

He is not even in the top 15 thanks to defense-optional garbage play on that side of the ball.

Paul Millsap: I'll say it again.........

He stepped his game up this season so far no doubt about it.

Milsap is a horrific defender.

He is too slow to defend quick guys.  He is too short to defend the post.  A cardboard cut-out is more valuable on defense.

I would not go that far but he is defenitely not much of a defender for the reasons HornStampede states above.  He is a guy that is a bit short for guarding PF and not quite quick enough to guard wing players very well.  A bit like Carl Landry in that respect.  He is an alright help defender.

I don't get all these "NO Defense whatsoever" power forwards of today.

This is why the guy to me that is quite underrated as a PF is Serge Ibaka.

Zagstuh:

"Milsap is a matchup guy. When he has the right matchup he does well but often disappears. He is the ideal forward coming off your bench but you are needing to upgrade if he is your starter."

This is still very much true in terms of his defense.  If he is matched up with a smaller quicker guy, a bigger stronger guy, or god forbid, a bigger quicker and stronger guy, he struggles.

I will give him credit offensively though as he seems to be playing more consistently offensively regardless of the matchup and he has stepped up his rebounding a bit too. 

So do you anyone of you like to apologize for those comments and admit I was right? 

No because at the time you weren't right.  For example if I saw that Gordon Hayward is the best SG in the game right now, I am not right for saying that.  If he all of a sudden becomes a lock down defender and starts scoring 30 ppg on 50% FG with 6 assists and 6 rebounds then he has become the best shooting guard in the game.  But it doesn't mean at the time I stated he was that I was right because at that time he wasn't.

No because at the time you weren't right.  For example if I saw that Gordon Hayward is the best SG in the game right now, I am not right for saying that.  If he all of a sudden becomes a lock down defender and starts scoring 30 ppg on 50% FG with 6 assists and 6 rebounds then he has become the best shooting guard in the game.  But it doesn't mean at the time I stated he was that I was right because at that time he wasn't.

That's a cop out and you know it. I wasn't talking about that he has Top 10 PF based on the previous season; I was saying he was a Top 10 PF going forward. The thread was created by the THSQ guys that were making their rankings on the best PFs going forward, and everyone else was doing the same in that thread, including myself. 

I was right and you guys making those asinine statements have been proved way off. I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, so it's okay if you do the same instead of trying to weasel your way out of it and try to cover up for the fact that you were wrong and I was right.  


AndIt sounds to me Horns like you've got something against Millsap because there is no way he's that bad on defense, and yes I've watched him play. He's definitely the best defensive PF out of all the top ones like Love, Griffin, Bosh, Aldridge, and Amar'e. He's a very good help defender, with quick hands to pick off passes, and never gets lazy and gives up easy baskets. You can't knock him down for his defense if it's better than all the other top PFs ahead of him.

And if the Jazz post duo in Al Jefferson and Paul Millsap were so bad then I guess they are 13-9 because their guards are so great. 

And if Derrick Favors was so good, then why have the Jazz realized it's smarter to go to Millsap more and give him more minutes and had more success with him than Favors in the starting lineup? Kind of a dumb statement and it's people that are not willing to admit Favors is not as good as he was predicted to be in the draft. While Greg Monroe and DeMarcus Cousins look like great young big man that have bright futures, Favors has looked pretty weak in comparison to those guys. 

AndIt sounds to me Horns like you've got something against Millsap because there is no way he's that bad on defense, and yes I've watched him play. He's definitely the best defensive PF out of all the top ones like Love, Griffin, Bosh, Aldridge, and Amar'e

That is like saying "The Situation" is the smartest member of the Jersey Shore crew.

They are all equally invisible on defense. 

I actually think Aldridge is average on defense which makes him the best of a steaming pile of crap.

What good does scoring 18 points do you if you allow 20 points?

And its not even the one-on-one defense all these guys SUCK at.
They strike zero fear in opponents guards. 

Watch guards play against the "OLE" defense of Al Jefferson and Milsap.

They literally have no respect for those guys in the paint.  Guards might get called for 3 seconds they spend so much time in the paint.

I am not "anti-Milsap".  He is simply a god awful defender.

If he improves on defense, I will be the first to revise my opinions.

Millsap averages 19.4 ppg and 10.9 rpg per 36 minutes

Then how come he only plays 31 minutes a game?  Oh that's right, he can't guard anyone.

That's a cop out and you know it. I wasn't talking about that he has Top 10 PF based on the previous season; I was saying he was a Top 10 PF going forward.

I can't remember if you said going forward or but will give you the benefit of the doubt.  Regardless I am not even sure he is top 10 right now.

Basically you have the following 8 guys who are definitely better (in no order)...

     Kevin Garnett, Amare Stoudemire, Chris Bosh, Josh Smith, LaMarcus Aldridge, Pau Gasol, Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Love

Then you have the following 4 guys where its debatable but I personally would say they are better than Millsap...

     Carlos Boozer, David West, Serge Ibaka, David Lee

Then you have the following 4 guys where its debatable but I personally would say Millsap is better...

     Andrea Bargnani, Ryan Anderson, Nene Hilario, Luis Scola.


So at best you might put him at #9 and at worst you could put him at #17 (i.e. a below average starter).  Personally I have him at #13 which is above average so it is a step up from before.  So your speculation was partly right.  Give yourself credit for that.

That is like saying "The Situation" is the smartest member of the Jersey Shore crew.

They are all equally invisible on defense.

But you said Paul Millsap was out of the Top 15 because of his defense? If you admit they are all equally bad, they how come he's the only one gets knocked down? His offense and rebounding combined has proved to better than all of them outside Blake Griffin and Kevin Love, so how else can you make that stupid statement that he's outside the Top 15? Can't make dumb statements like that and then get contradict yourself so quickly. 

Then how come he only plays 31 minutes a game?  Oh that's right, he can't guard anyone.

How come the Jazz traded for Derrick Favors and drafted Enes Kanter when they already have Al Jefferson and Millsap? How come Jerry Sloan couldn't stand their front office anymore? It's not that he's not talented enough to play that many minutes, it's the fact that they made a stupid trade and have to give Favors minutes now and have no strengths outside of having big men depth. 

Then how come he only plays 31 minutes a game?  Oh that's right, he can't guard anyone.

And if you paid any attention, you'd see whenever Millsap gets big minutes he always produces well and the Jazz do better. As I said before he's a better defender than just about all the PFs, so please prove how he's so bad on defense compared them? I don't get why you guys can make dumb statements like these to justify you being so far off base on Millsap. Just admit your wrong already instead of trying to cover up that stupid statements and off-base analysis of Millsap.

Basically you have the following 8 guys who are definitely better (in no order)...

     Kevin Garnett, Amare Stoudemire, Chris Bosh, Josh Smith, LaMarcus Aldridge, Pau Gasol, Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Love

Then you have the following 4 guys where its debatable but I personally would say they are better than Millsap...

     Carlos Boozer, David West, Serge Ibaka, David Lee

Then you have the following 4 guys where its debatable but I personally would say Millsap is better...

     Andrea Bargnani, Ryan Anderson, Nene Hilario, Luis Scola. 


So at best you might put him at #9 and at worst you could put him at #17 (i.e. a below average starter).  Personally I have him at #13 which is above average so it is a step up from before.  So your speculation was partly right.  Give yourself credit for that.

Wow, now you're really reaching. Dirk, Griffin, Love, Bosh, and Stoudemire are the only ones that are defnitely better than Millsap. Josh Smith, Gasol, and Aldridge are all close with him and arguments can be made for both. But there is no way Kevin Garnett, Carlos Boozer, David west, David Lee, Ibaka, Andrei Bargnani, Ryan Anderson, or Scola are better than Millsap (and Nene is a center, not a PF but Millsap is still better). 

So at worst he's 9th and at best he's 6th. And please, I'd love to hear you argue why he's 13th and why there are 3 guys better than him that knock him out of the Top 10. He's perform better than all but 3 PFs so far in Griffin, Love, and Bosh (about equal with Aldridge) but I understand guys like Dirk and Amare get credit for their talent despite starting off slow. But guys like KG that is declining and a year or two away from retirement, or guys like West and Boozer who have declined, or all the rest of those guys that are not better on defense or overall than Millsap. 

Just quit making stupid statements that have no basis or logic and admit how good Millsap is already and admit you were wrong. Everyone is wrong at some point, so don't act all high and mighty like you can't be wrong because it's obvious you were way off base. 

If we are talking about what guy I would want this year and for the future he would be in the top 10. These are the guys I would for sure say I would want before him.

Kevin Love
LaMarcus Aldridge
Dirk
Stat
Bosh
Josh Smith
Ibaka
David West

(Yep no KG, Gasol, or Boozer)

You may be right that he is a top 10 PF now, but you have been saying that for awhile. When Boozer was still in Utah you said Millsap was better. So after a few years of being wrong, congrats. He is at exactly #10 on my list. 

Stampede, how is Millsap "invisible" on defense?

He leads all power forwards in steals with 1.5 spg. 

He's held some great players well below their season average a handful of times this season.  Dirk Nowitzki was all but invisible against the Jazz.  Blake Griffin struggled the first time these two teams met, scoring just 10 points.

Stampede, how is Millsap "invisible" on defense?

He leads all power forwards in steals with 1.5 spg.

Steals don't mean you're good on defense, they mean you are good at gambling.

Allen Iverson and Larry Hughes have both lead the league in steals and nobody considered them all world defenders, especially the Answer.

Steals don't mean you're good on defense, they mean you are good at gambling.

It doesn't always mean that but it often does.  In Millsap's case with certain matchups he has to go for steals or strips because if he can't strip the ball he is likely to get scored on.