The Pac-12 Thread....

Still I have a bone to pick with the play calling. If Stanford is going to give you over the middle, then take it play after play after play. I don't care if Agholor (or however you spell it) catches 10 passes in a row and Woods and Lee never see the ball, that's what you do. Maybe I am wrong but it appeared to me that Stanford was dbling the wideouts and relying on backers to cover the TE and slot receiver. in the 10-15 yard area.

I don't always get a chance to watch a lot of Pac football, but watched this game since ours was blacked out. I noticed the same thing that you are talking about here, but still have a question … no offense intended.

Was it the play calling that really threw off the passing game, or was is more centered on the reduced response time generated by a faulty O-Line, that shortened the window Barkley had to decide where the ball was going?

I heard a few grumbles about that going around … and the possibility that consistently shaving a seconds or more off “pocket play” was throwing Matt off some in the decision process. Seems like that makes sense, but then again it could just be an excuse. Does the O-line often provide a more comfortable setting for Barkley when playing other teams … or is this more a result of Stanford having put in the extra effort on the D-line?

Okay NCAA rules experts.

Last year in the Utah-USC game- USC blocks the last second field goal (which would have tied the game) and returns said block for a touchdown. The USC players rush the field during the play and a flag is thrown. The refs consult, and take the points away, yet end the game as the penalty was considered a "dead ball" foul. Later that night the points were awarded to USC as the flag had no bearing on the play.

Saturday in the BYU-Utah game the exact thing happened except the blocked kick wasn't returned for points. The flag was thrown for players rushing the field. This time the penalty was a "live ball" foul and BYU was given 15 yards and another attempt to kick the field goal. Which is it? Last year USC fans had me convinced the play was called correctly, especially after the conference awarded the points later in the day.

Can someone explain this rule?

Was it the play calling that really threw off the passing game, or was is more centered on the reduced response time generated by a faulty O-Line, that shortened the window Barkley had to decide where the ball was going?

Hammer meet nail!! The loss of Khaled Holmes for this game was huge!! He has been the starting center for 3 years and is the anchor for the o-line. Barkley was had to call the plays for the offense and then also make the blocking assignment calls for the o-line (normally handled by Holmes).

By the end of the first quarter, Stanford figured out that Cyrus Hobbi was hopelessly overmatched and they sent pressure up the middle and into Barkley's face for the rest of the game. I don't know if USC would have won the game if Holmes played, but I would have liked our chances as I don't think Stanford would have had a revolving door in the middle of out o-line. This would have given our receivers more time to get open and more time for Barkley to find them.

I heard a few grumbles about that going around … and the possibility that consistently shaving a seconds or more off “pocket play” was throwing Matt off some in the decision process. Seems like that makes sense, but then again it could just be an excuse. Does the O-line often provide a more comfortable setting for Barkley when playing other teams … or is this more a result of Stanford having put in the extra effort on the D-line?

A little of both. There were far too many plays where Barkley literally had no time to throw the ball or even move in the pocket to make more time for himself. Barkley is not a scrambler, but he does move well in the pocket. However, the pocket was collapsing too fast. 

USC could have and likely would have beaten almost any other team in the PAC with Hobbi at center. However, Stanford has the best, most physical defense that USC will see this season, unless a small miracle happenes and they manage to run the table and see an SEC team in the NCG. Stanfords defense would have been tough to handle with Khaled Holmes, with Hobbi, they were virtually impossible to stop. 

Eirespal,

     Was there time on the clock when the Utah players ran onto the field? Ther reason I ask is because last year, when the USC players rushed onto the field, time had already expired but the play was just continuing. If there was time on the clock when the Utah players rushed onto the field, that may explain the difference. Otherwise......I have no idea!!

Hey, NW-

It's FIGHT ON !


Not GIVE UP! 

@ trojanfan 12

Thanks for your assessment, and indentifying the personnel change as a possible cause ... clears things up a little. I have to warn you that I was taking notes to email Les, in case we both happen to stumble on a miracle this season.

Lolz ...

Thanks for your assessment, and indentifying the personnel change as a possible cause ... clears things up a little. I have to warn you that I was taking notes to email Les, in case we both happen to stumble on a miracle this season.

USC still has a shot at that miracle, but it will take ALOT of improvement on our part and a fair amount of help. Fortunately, I think that at least one of the NCG participants this year will have a loss, so if USC can win out impressively, we may be able to get there. However, for now, we just need to concentrate on winning the PAC and let everything else take care of itself.

Good luck vs. 'Bama on 11/3. Those guys look downright scary!!

Gonna be a long year.



gb2

USC will still be competitive the remainder of this season.  But, look for everyone to try and blow up the "A" gap like Stanford did.  Even if the starting center returns next week, Cal will try to exploit his physical weakness and attack the nose all afternoon.  Barkley will be rolling to the right a few extra times in these next few games.

Look at Arizona coming into Autzen this weekend with a new lease on life.  What is a good sauce to put on fried Wildcat?

Even if the starting center returns next week, Cal will try to exploit his physical weakness and attack the nose all afternoon.

And I'd say......."Good luck with that"!! The difference between Holmes at center and Hobbi at center would be about the same as the difference between Barkley at qb and our 3rd or 4th string qb. In other words, just fine against most of the defenses on our schedule, but not so much vs. the likes of Stanford.

Look at Arizona coming into Autzen this weekend with a new lease on life.  What is a good sauce to put on fried Wildcat?

Crazy Duck!! You never fry wildcat it won't be tender. You must smoke wildcat for at least 3.5 to 4 hours. This will ensure a nice tender meat for your dining pleasure. In this case, season it with a dry rub prior to putting it in the Autzen smoker and you will find it quite tasty without sauce.

If you plan on making "pulled wildcat" sandwiches, then I would reccommend a mustard based bbq sauce!!

Well, I'm done

oh come on man! USC isnt even eliminated! You guys can still have a great season and go to the Rose Bowl and if you can keep it to 1 loss and win the ccg still be there at the end for the title game chatter with a bigger advantage than most if not all, that being the pollsters love USC. A one loss USC gets in over any other 1 loss team if it comes down to it. Guaranteed.

You couldnt honestly have expected to run the table in the pac12, it's almost impossible in todays conference play. Oregon did it but that was an anomaly that wont be repeated any time soon.

I don't see anyone running the table in any conference this year except for maybe FSU. They have such an easy schedule it's pathetic... (The ACC has a way of spoiling each others hopes though so root for Clemson this weekend!)

I have to say its pretty sad watching a Trojan throw in the towel after a single loss! Its like Hop said "it's FIGHT ON!!! ... not give up"...

Take a week or so off and come on back! If not, oh well cya later, been fun talking with you.

My apologies to Dr. Kato and Stanford fans. The Cardinal definitely does not suck, far from it. Congrats on the big win.

Can someone explain this rule?

No I can't however the time on the clock already mentioned is a consideration but I'm not inclined to buy into that.  The other would be the fact that the BYU offense recovered the ball and not the Utah defense as opposed to the USC defense recovering the ball instead of the Utah offense.  So there was still an opportunity to for BYU to win the game when the fans/players rushed the field.  Even then, for me, as long as the play is live, time on the clock or not the flag should be thrown in those instances.

Personally I think the refs just got it wrong last year vs Utah and the Utes should have got another 15 yards tacked on for a much closer attempt but then again I'm a Bruins fan and see things through powder blue goggles lol. 

That said, these situations go along way in the PAC12 ref bias for USC arguments don't they?

---

NWTrucker, dude, you were dishing it out and dishing it out, now come take your lumps like a man.  

Remember when you all were going on about the 'Do Bruins fans exist?'  This type of reaction from NWTrucker makes me wonder if Trojans fans exist, just how many are front running bandwaongers.  You can tell real fans, they stick with their team through the tough times and don't high tail it at the first sign of adversity.  Try being a Rams fan during the last five years, or a UCLA Bruins fan this entire millenia or a Dogers fans during the last 30 years, or a LA Kings fan for the last 45 years prior to the Cup.

Trucker we all have those teams who's results are insufferable, but that's the beauty of sports.  Those lows make the increadible highs even higher!   

Now quit feeling sorry for yourself, dry it up and support your team! 

This 1 loss has not ruined anything for USC. They can still come back and possibly beat Oregon twice and if they do that, they are right back in the big picture.

USC AINT OUT OF THIS THING YET PEOPLE. C'mon, NWtrucker, don't leave!

oh come on man! USC isnt even eliminated! You guys can still have a great season and go to the Rose Bowl and if you can keep it to 1 loss and win the ccg still be there at the end for the title game chatter with a bigger advantage than most if not all, that being the pollsters love USC. A one loss USC gets in over any other 1 loss team if it comes down to it. Guaranteed.

You couldnt honestly have expected to run the table in the pac12, it's almost impossible in todays conference play. Oregon did it but that was an anomaly that wont be repeated any time soon.

I don't see anyone running the table in any conference this year except for maybe FSU. They have such an easy schedule it's pathetic... (The ACC has a way of spoiling each others hopes though so root for Clemson this weekend!)

I have to say its pretty sad watching a Trojan throw in the towel after a single loss! Its like Hop said "it's FIGHT ON!!! ... not give up"...

Take a week or so off and come on back! If not, oh well cya later, been fun talking with you.

Well stated, Iron!! I'm not convinced that USC gets in over a 1 loss SEC team, unless the 1 loss SEC team getting in would mean another all-SEC NCG. Even at that, it would likely only be because of the uproar caused by last seasons' all-SEC NCG.

For now, USC simply needs to concentrate on getting better, staying healthy and as Pete Carroll used to say "Control what we can control" which is the games in front of us. The goal now needs to be on winning 1 game at a time and letting the rest take care of itself. If we can do that and finish with one loss, then we can be in the NC conversation and Barkley can be in the Heisman conversation.

Trucker we all have those teams who's results are insufferable, but that's the beauty of sports. Those lows make the increadible highs even higher!

So true!

@ NWTucker ...

Try being a LSU fan after last season's finish.
Some people, myself included, were wondering if our season last year would not have easily been classified as our "Best Ever" only to be tarnished beyond repair through so many circumstances and on so many levels.

I will tell you ... losing to Stanford in Week 3 ain't crap ... but that's just my opinion.

I get why he wants to give up.  

I got a pm from another Trojan who is " checking out," also.

That's just two that I know of-  announcing publically or privately that they are checking out.  

How many others just don't feel like coming here? 

 

If USC loses to Cal this Saturday, then by all means, push the panic button.  But, USC still has more talent on their roster than anyone and remains a dangerous contender for every prize in CFB.

If When USC loses to Cal this Saturday, then by all means, push the panic button.  But, USC still has more talent on their roster than anyone and remains a dangerous contender for every prize in CFB.

There....that's better. 

Reply to your question Hiryuu - Certain things having to do with the center, and blocking for downfield throws was a problem at times. However, the over the middle stuff to slot receiver and TE's takes far less time. From the gun it is almost instant release. From under center it can be a one step drop and release if the angle is good. When Woods caught that 3rd 24 across the middle, he was so wide open he almost ran it in. Barkely took the snap the ball was away in less than two seconds. It always depends on the severity of the rush as to whether you hit the receiver on his cut, or sometime after that cut if no pressure because he gets a better look and can increase his speed. With no safety in the middle of the field it can become a foot race if the backer misses the tackle. On the Woods play,  the backers took such deep drops it was an easy catch in front and a foot race to the corner. I also know that last year there were more passing plays to the fullback. And I don't mean dumpoffs. Well - too late now. I just get annoyed when coaches want to dictate instead of adjusting whenever you play a competent opponent.