Switch the quarterback to change history game

"Nobody's been more successful in the playoffs. Those 16 playoff wins (and do we doubt he'll break that tie with Montana soon?) ring loudly."


Wasen`t Bart Starr 9-1 in post season play? I`d say that`s more successful (.900 winning percentage vs Brady`s .727) then Brady. So your "Nobody`s been more successful in the play-offs" is a false statement.

Brady started 10-0 then 14-2.  Currently 16-6.  Montana was 16-7 (14-5 in SF).
For playoffs it's total wins, because playing in more games is not automatic.
You have to qualify.

I don't think, for example 17-15 is better than 9-1.  I'd use "games over .500" as a good guide.

So, I think 16-6 beats 9-1, but barely.  We'll see where Brady ends up, but no doubt that Bart Starr was a great playoff QB, as are Eli (8-3, 2 SB titles) and Roethlisberger (9-3 - 3 SBs - 2 titles).


Before we cry for Kelly, Marino & Elway (pre-Terrel Davis), go look at how consistently poor they were in big games, ESPECIALLY turnover-wise.

They didn't play well, that's why those games in the 80's-early 90s were so ugly.

It's hilarious that just about everyone who has an opinion on this does not put Brady up in the GOAT discussion, except for Patriots fans. That should tell everyone something about the debate.

Fans love putting players on a pedestal when they deserve it. It's not an anti-Brady thing. The overall NFL fan base is fair about how they assess players, aside from any homer and rivalry bias, which taints a minority of opinions. The majority are fair, and Brady is simply not up there with Montana, and in many cases, Elway and Starr and Unitas and Baugh, nor will he ever be. Many unbiased fans would even put Marino ahead of Brady based purely on QB play, not on the teams around him.

There's a reason Brady is not put on the highest pedestal. He won his rings as a servicable QB, and can't win a ring when he is in his prime. He needs a Fans aren't willing to give him all the credit for the titles his team won for him as a young pup. He rode the coattails of an outstanding all-around team that beat the likes of the Panthers and Eagles, so it's not enough to put him in the super elite. He may be a victim of not having a great oponent in those title games, but that's the reality. Had he played great teams in all 3 games, he may not have won 3 titles. Winning by a FG in every title game is not helping his legacy. Lots of QBs would have won rings had they been there instead of Brady. Even a guy with the talent of Trent Dilfer would have sufficed in some of those title games. The defense and special teams won those rings, in spite of a mediocre offense led by Brady.

We all saw what happened when Mike Shanahan came to the Broncos. We forget that in 96 the Broncos had a fluke of a day at home in the Divisional Round against the Expansion Jags. Before I cement my point, let me go back to the late 80's when Elway took the Broncos to 3 Bowls in 4 years(86',87',and 89') -and let me remind you that it should have been 4 in 6 years. 91' AFC Championship lost by a few against Buffalo after Treadwell missed 3 "Give Me" FG's....Point is Elway was hand cuffed by Dan Reeves - There were nothing but average players on both sides of the ball. The reason Elway is the comeback King is because Reeves would wait until the end of a poorly coached game and say, "Go get it John" and he usually would. I suggest that if Bill Walsh drafted Elway in 1983, Mr. Elway would have to wear his rings on two hands to fit them all. I have no doubt. Greatest QB ever, John Elway. Greatest Coach ever, Bill Walsh...Proof along with Shannahan bringing the niners system to John that Players win games and Organizations win Championships.

Point was that people are too set on Team rings and let them affect a ranking of players.  Could switch it up and have a list of Running Backs as well.  Is Walter Payton down on the list because he only has one, how about Barry, and so on.  NFL is so much about the team, some great players were just unlucky to be on those bad teams.

I agree

The Steelers got 4 rings because of their defense, not because of Terry Bradshaw.  Most people forget that Bradshaw didn't even start every game in their 4 season SB run, with the exception of 1975, when he started all 14 games.

In 73, 74 and 76, Bradshaw didn't start every regular season game,  Gilliam started 6 in 1974 and 1 in 73,  Kruczek started 8 in 76.

I think Bert Jones was a far superior QB in that era to Bradshaw, yet Bradshaw has 4 rings and is considered great when he couldn't even hold the starting job during the regular season.  Jones just had the misfortune to be playing on a bad team.

If Jim Kelly had won two or three of thos SB's he lost because his kicker shanked, he would be in the conversation of Greatest of all time

Point is Elway was hand cuffed by Dan Reeves - There were nothing but average players on both sides of the ball. The reason Elway is the comeback King is because Reeves would wait until the end of a poorly coached game and say, "Go get it John" and he usually would.

Not only hand cuffed, but disliked.  Tommy Maddox?  Constant trade rumors?  If Dan Reeves would of focused more energy around surrounding John with talent like Mike Shannahan did then maybe we would of been more competitive in those 3 superbowl loses.  It's not rocket science, get a good line, rush the passer and have an opportunistic defense.  Just so happens that Mike also got a gem in TD in the 6th round who should of been putting on a jacked with Curtis Martin if it wasn't for that horrific injury.  If it wasn't for extreme overconfidence and Tom Coughlin coaching his backside off John Elway could of ended with 3 in a row.  That final team was perfectly built around John, and so fun to watch.

Greatest QB ever, John Elway. Greatest Coach ever, Bill Walsh

Definatley my favorite QB, wouldn't of wanted any other in Denver.  And can't think of any other QB that would of brought us to 3 superbowls, basically the reason of this thread.  No way any other QB could of beaten those NFC teams with the supporting cast John had, ahhhh Tebow?  Ah, don't go there. 

Walsh, offensive genius, no question.  Great collector of talent, no question.  Greatest..... he's in the discussion, no question.

Walsh, offensive genius, no question.  Great collector of talent, no question.  Greatest..... he's in the discussion, no question.

Walsh was a great coach, but he learned his trade at the foot of Paul Brown, who was truly an ionnovator

Walsh was a great coach, but he learned his trade at the foot of Paul Brown, who was truly an ionnovator     


What the fork happened to his son? If I would have been Paul Brown I would have had a DNA test when this bonehead started making moves. He may have ruined his legacy by simply being his offspring? "My Dad is a TV repairman he has an awesome set of tools. I can fix it."  Thanks Specolli!