OK, this has been discussed ad nauseum...So before we get into free agency and the picture becomes a little clearer I wanted to introduce two scenarios to see which side of the fence Browns fans are truly on..

Scenario 1- Trade the Browns #4 and #22 to move up to take RGIII,  use the 2nd round-4th round picks on o-line and defense and not in free agency to shore up these positions since others will have to be addressed in FA. Giving us this potential starting lineup with free agency taken into account.

QB- RGIII (#4 and #22)
RB- Hillis (FA)
WR- Robert Meachum (FA)
WR- Greg Little
WR- Mohamed Massaquoi/Josh Cribbs[draft Marquiz Maze in the 5th, #132 overall]
TE- Ben Watson
LT- Joe Thomas
LG- Eric Steinbach
C- Alex Mack
RG- Jason Pinkston
RT- Zebrie Sanders (#37)

LE- Jabaal Sheard
DT- Phil Taylor
DT- Ahtyba Rubin
RE- Cam Johnson (#68)
WLB- Terrel Manning (#119), most probably Kaluka Maiava wins starting role
MLB- D'Qwell Jackson (FA)
SLB- Chris Gocong
CB- Joe Haden
CB- Sheldon Brown
SS- T.J. Ward
FS- Neiko Thorpe (101)

In this scenario you have used 4th rounders to fill in starting positions, but have gotten RGIII

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Scenario 2- Keep all of the draft picks and Colt McCoy as the starter, get a splash guy in free agency like Mario Williams to shore up the defensive line. Giving us this potential starting lineup:

Granted, I am assuming, in this scenario the Browns are not in a trade up scenario for #2 overall, thus the Redskins do not have to give up the farm to move up either. This could become moot if the Dolphins do not sign Matt Flynn as I expect in FA.

QB- Colt McCoy
RB- Trent Richardson (#6--or trade down(Redskins #6 and #70{3rd round})
WR- Michael Floyd/Alshon Jeffrey(I think Wright will be gone by #22) (#22)
WR- Greg Little
WR- Ryan Broyles (#101)
TE- Ben Watson
LT- Joe Thomas
LG- Eric Steinbach
C- Alex Mack
RG- Jason Pinkston[draft Brandon Washington in the 4th, #119 overall]
RT- Bobbie Massey (#68)

LE- Jabaal Sheard
DT- Phil Taylor
DT- Ahtyba Rubin
RE- Mario Williams (FA)
WLB- Sean Spence (#70 from Washington)
MLB- D'Qwell Jackson (FA)
SLB- Chris Gocong
CB- Joe Haden
CB- Chase Minniefield (#37)
SS- T.J. Ward
FS- Sheldon Brown [draft Harrison Smith, true FS in 5th #132 overall]

In this scenario, all starting positions are filled with higher quality players and only picks through the 3rd round have been used. You still have 5 draft picks to use for depth.

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Bottom line is that if you use those top two draft picks, you either sacrifice another year of offense or use your free agency money on a WR and RB.

Hillis and Meachum would cost the same as Mario Williams, but Williams IMHO would have a much bigger impact to the team.

Meachum and Hillis will both have a price tag of $2.5M to #3M per year...Williams will be in the $5.5-6M per year range.

Just my opinion and a different perspective on the roster overall and how the draft/free agency strategy could effect it...

WHICH DO YOU PREFER?

I Like option #2



just say no to RGIII ..

I would have preferred reasons to go along with the choice...Thanks bluez, although that may be a little vague in reasoning, lol...

All others, why did you choose what you did?

Very nice post, Irish.  I like the breakdown between the two scenarios.  I have to admit I have been lobbying for Robert Griffin and I am very tempted to go with scenario number one.  I could forsake all those picks later for a franchise QB.  I think there will be equally talented WRs, RBs, and especially LBs in 2013.  Outside of Justin Blackmon there isn't a WR for whom I'd give up the farm.  I like both Alshon Jeffries and Malcolm Floyd very much so I am torn.  If push came to shove I would have to go with option number two however.  I have been a proponent far much longer of keeping your picks and taking the best player/ talent available when you have high picks.  If you can trade down and get more picks, you have to take a serious look at it.  I haven't researched all your players you'd take with subsequent picks, but I like the general theoryof position when.  My ideal, best situation would be scenario number two in addition to getting Hillis and Meachem in FA.  So I guess for the purposes of voting I'd go with number two.  Although, I think I am going to have to kick quite a few people if and when Robert Griffin goes off.  So be careful how you people go about convincing others; you are fore-warned there will be a line forming. 

Thanks lbg,

The truth is, we don't have a mountain of money waiting to be used on free agency. We don't have to move around current contracts to make money appear like some teams, but we will have when it is all said and done about $22M under the cap to use based on who we believe will be on the team come September...

Figure about $7-8M for rookie contracts...

DQ $3-4M

That leaves about $12M to fill in...

So if you get someone like Mario Williams at $6M, you have cut your remainder in half...that is about $6M let over with a Kicker needing to be signed...Phil about $2.5M or replacement about $1M.

Now you have between $5M to $3.5M to fill out the 53 man roster...That is why the Browns have been non factors in the free agency market as of late. They are simply trying to find their sweet spot of players, because a high priced player costs you some where else.

Now, don't forget...although you add some free agents, you will lose some of that original $22M cap(or add to it I should say) based on some of the guys who do not make the team...

For instance, If we get a replacement RT, then Tony Pashos'(who's remaining contract is not gaurenteed) $3.35M goes back into the pot...so if he is cut, then that $22M actually goes up to $25.35M right there depending on what the contract is of his replacement of course...

Only the top 51 salaries count towards the cap during the offseason. Then during the regular season all 53 roster players salaries count against the cap. That is why there is adjustment seen throughout the year to stay under the cap considering injuries for some of the higher paying teams.



Is that clear as mud?


So, drafting RGIII and filling in every where else with free agents is not nearly as simplistic a plan as some would lead you to believe. We would be putting off the resurgence by at least one year by taking that route.

why not just use the #4 pick on blackmon, take the best offensive lineman with the #22. and BPA after that.   GIVE WHOEVER OUR QB IS SOME PROTECTION AND WEAPONS. 

There is obviously room for adjustment bf4evr,

But once you take the two first round picks in scenario 1, you are very limited in what you can do to improve the entire roster. That is the whole point of this exercise, to show the difference in the makeup of the 2012 team based on the decision to trade away #4 and #22 to move up to #2 and pick RGIII...

There are ramifications to that choice that some just are blindly over looking.

I just don't want to see a trade down unless it is too good to pass us and we don't have a target player in that spot.   as far as trading up I don't even want to see us do that, we have too many holes to fill to give up good picks.  surround colt with some playmakers, resign hillis, get the final few pieces for our lines and we'll be in great shape. 

Yes in my scenario with RGIII still available I am assuming the Rams take Blackmon and the Vikings take either Kalil or Claiborne. I could be way off base on this though.

I am 100% on board with you in taking Justin Blackmon if he is there at the #4 spot.

Like I said though, your options only get limited if you trade away those two first picks.

My personal feeling is that the supporting cast on offense is in way worse shape than the QB position and changing the QB position without making major strides at the WR position will be a step backwards.

I chose the McCoy option.  My main reason for not giving up on McCoy is the lack of talent around him.   Plus the two attributes that RG3 has over McCoy are arm strength and speed.  Same two qualities Wallace has.  Wallace fared no better than McCoy if not worse.   I think this has to be McCoys breakout year. 

I would like to see them take Richardson.  I think he's going to be the best player in this draft.  I have no use for Hillis.  He was a one year wonder who is injury prone, has questionable heart, and fumbles too much.

With the #22 pick i'd like to see them take either Mike Adams or Floydd.  I think we have to focus on the offense with the first two picks.  I love the Ryan Broyles pick.  If he can get back to 100% i think he'll be a solid NFL reciever.  Even if we were to sign a Meachum i'd like to see them target another reciever in the 3rd or 4th rounds. 

Getting Mario Williams kind of seems like a pipedream, a nice one but a dream none the less.  I think we have to keep DQ.  The other guys available aren't an updgrade of DQ. 


I just have a hard time giving up on McCoy.   He was put in a bad situation.  If Hillis had repeated his 2010 season and the recievers had been a little more consistent catching the ball i'd say go with RG3.  I think he showed enough to get a 3rd year. 

rI've said this before but on the off chance you missed it i'll restate it.  Most of the time when a young or rookie QB is taking over an offense he's taking over one that is bad.  If the offense is good most of the time he has to have an injury for him to be able to step in. 

With few exceptions like Roethlisberger, Brady, Marino and Rivers the new QB is taking over an offense where the pieces aren't already in place.  Most first year starters struggle when they are taking over bad teams.  So while Colt didn't exactly turn heads with his performance, for the most part it should have been expected. 

I'd like to know what peoples expectations were for McCoy going into the '11 season.   I was hoping he'd not beat us and give us an opportunity to win games.   I thought going in we'd only be a 6 win team possibly 8 if everything went perfect.  So while they didn't do as well as i thought there were other factors that contributed to the Browns not reaching that goal.  


For the most part i'd say McCoy met expectations.   He wasn't horrible but he wasn't great either.  He was up and down and he showed a lot of guts.   I think you hit the nail on the head when you said drafting RG3 at this point would be a step backwards because we don't have the pieces around him.  I think PATIENTENCE IS THE WORD.  We have to realize it's a rebuilding process.  At this point we're only heading into year 3 of a 5 year plan.  This is the year i'd expect us to win 7-9 games.   Another 4 or 5 win season and i think they have to seriously consider starting over. 

I'd like to know what peoples expectations were for McCoy going into the '11 season.   I was hoping he'd not beat us and give us an opportunity to win games.   I thought going in we'd only be a 6 win team possibly 8 if everything went perfect.  So while they didn't do as well as i thought there were other factors that contributed to the Browns not reaching that goal.  

well i can say that I was pissed that we didn't upgrade the WR position more than just a 2nd round draft choice...

BUT, upon hearing of the good talent we had, just not utilized under the previous regime, I dropped that gripe pretty quick, because I trusted H & H and their talent evalutation.


Then the season started and all of that talent evalution was evidently a mask for, we are only in year one of our new system and we are focusing on defense first...
I honestly don't believe Colt has had a chance to show what kind of QB he will become. That is my honest feeling...We may find out what some are saying is true, but I just don't think this offense run by Colt with proper personnel in place will even resemble a shadow of what we had to endure last season.

Gotta go with scenario 1!   When you get a chance to add Zebrie Sanders and Neiko Thorpe to the roster, you do it!

Not sure if you are joking TD, but Sanders is one of the best RTs in the draft...and he is capable of playing LT to boot.

Are you kidding?  No way am I joking about Zebie and Nieko!  Scenario 1 is definately the way to go.... 

plus , I think that kid from Baylor that won the Heisman is in that scenario! He seems like an intriguing young fella...  We haven't had a Heisman trophy winner in here since 1980, when Charles White came in  and put new meaning to the C in C-town.....

Hopefully it works out better for the guy from Baylor.

plus , I think that kid from Baylor that won the Heisman is in that scenario! He seems like an intriguing young fella...  We haven't had a Heisman trophy winner in here since 1980, when Charles White came in  and put new meaning to the C in C-town.....

Hopefully it works out better for the guy from Baylor.

lol...believe it or not...I can't believe I am saying this...but, I am starting to come to the dark side

lol...believe it or not...I can't believe I am saying this...but, I am starting to come to the dark side

Attaboy!  ( I won't tell anyone....)


I know that somehow it didn't show in the record last year, but the Browns have come a long way since 08 when everything went to chit under Romeo....I still say we aren't nearly the "laughing stalk" that the casual NFL fan thinks we are....But we know how it works.   The respect doesn't come until the WINS start coming...In Cleveland, I think it's going to be much sooner than later....

What if we ended up getting RG3 and Kendall Wright in the 1st round, and then got Terrance Ganoway in the later rounds?   And all that after taking Phil Taylor last year.....Would that officially make us "Baylor North" or something?  lol!

lol...believe it or not...I can't believe I am saying this...but, I am starting to come to the dark side

Come back to the light







GO Toward the light Irish..

lol, Crex, I'm not there yet, I still am not willing to give up both 1sts without knowing what we get in free agency. I feel we need a #1 WR first and foremost....AND I need to know from H&H that Colt is not capable..

lol, Crex, I'm not there yet, I still am not willing to give up both 1sts without knowing what we get in free agency. I feel we need a #1 WR first and foremost....

I'm not willing to give up both firsts no matter what happens in Free Agency.  Merely because I don't think H&H WILL make a big splash in FA.  They didn't last year and still haven't signed Hillis yet.  So I just don't see them brining in guys that are going to be over priced or don't fit the system they are trying to impliment.  With the plethera of WR in this draft I certainly don't think they'd bring in any big name FA. 

AND I need to know from H&H that Colt is not capable..

Agreed.  I honestly still think McCoy needs to have H&H build the team around him.  
I do have to also agree that his shoulder injury from the BCS title game may have permanent effects. 

If the Browns can land RG3 w/out giving up the #22 pick to do it I'd be ok with it.  IMHO he'd get a chance to start, but I think McCoy would be the front runner.  I also think Wallace gets a pink slip with the addition of RG3.